As I have previously said, if it can be moved, I’ll shift it no problem, but if its leaking fluids that could damage the carriageway, I’ll leave it where it is, I’d rather lose one lane than shut the whole motorway.
danalex84:
Last night just after 8pm, I was traveling into London down the M11 with the wife (in the car not the lorry) just after passing past J5, things start to slow up, and then come to a complete stop, for the next 50 minutes we slowly crawl towards the city, eventually we see the cause of this congestion an Audi A6 has broken down in the fast lane (at this point we are the section where the M11 is down to two lanes, but has a very wide hard-shoulder). Parked in front of this broken down car is a Metropolitan Police Mitsubishi Shogun, all lights flashing as the two officers and the driver of the car are stood leaning against the hard shoulder having a bloody good laugh!Now a Mitsubishi Shogun has a rated towing capacity of 3.5tonne (I know this as my father has one), why the hell was this car not towed onto the hard shoulder?
I know that there will be people coming along and saying, his brakes may have been locked on, or it could have been stuck in gear, etc. Well I’m sorry but this is BS, drag the thing onto the hard shoulder and let the traffic move. This is a common occurrence everyday all over the country, and its starting to take the biscuit, broken down and crashed cars, holding up every other road user, while the police or traffic officers, site there in a vehicle that is more than capable of clearing the scene in a matter of minutes. If they are not going to use these 4x4s for what they are designed, then get them a Ford Estate car to keep all their cones in!!
This doesn’t happen in Canada, USA, Australia, etc. My brother-in-law broke down in German on the Auto-Bahn last year and was towed to the nearest services by a German police 4x4 in under 20 minutes!
Sorry to rant, but its starting to take the biscuit.
Rant over, have a good one everyone!
please enlighten me to how it works in Australia? … here in NSW they have Emergency Traffic Patrol, fitted with blue and red lights … all they do in the nice big shiny merc sprinter LWB is pull up behind put the red and blue lights on raise the right or left indicator board and sit behind awaiting a recovery truck. … I see it daily on the motorways and A roads over here… also, if the police do not have the consent of the owner and cause damage to said car then they cant move it … unless they want to pay for damage to said vehicle … what should of been done was have the area coned and a VMS stating use hard shoulder as they do over here.
They do in the west midlands.Yesterday i witnessed a traffic officer and a Police 4x4 towing a merc actros off the m6 Hard shoulder.
I think some of these coppers are too far up there own back sides to help, but some will help .it does have to change .probably most of it is down to Health and safety at work Nonsense …
Surely the green party should dive on this ,If your stuck in a queue due to a broken down car ,Itd save the environment getting them moved faster .
We need a petition …
pierrot 14:
BossHogg:
Our patrol cars are more than capable, you can imagine the outcry if we used them beyond their capability leading to expensive repair bills, we would be accused of wasting tax payers money.Move the obstruction to the hard shoulder, surely that would be the better option, get the motorway up and running.
Same old same old usual BS , can’t do that, it might end up in court etc. don’t want to be sued etc.
Wouldn’t happen anywhere else but the UK.
Youre right, only in the UK. Break down in Spain and the police will drag it off the road no matter what the owner said…
discoman:
please enlighten me to how it works in Australia? … here in NSW they have Emergency Traffic Patrol, fitted with blue and red lights … all they do in the nice big shiny merc sprinter LWB is pull up behind put the red and blue lights on raise the right or left indicator board and sit behind awaiting a recovery truck. … I see it daily on the motorways and A roads over here… also, if the police do not have the consent of the owner and cause damage to said car then they cant move it … unless they want to pay for damage to said vehicle … what should of been done was have the area coned and a VMS stating use hard shoulder as they do over here.
This was my point Discoman, down in Australia, you guys have the right idea, use the hard shoulder as a running lane, to at least keep the traffic moving. Over here we have matrix signs all down the motorways and A-Roads that could be used to tell people to use the hard shoulders, but no, the UK police would rather use their extensive cctv network to fine anyone caught on camera using the hard shoulder. Why help the public when you can use them as a revenue stream??!
Juddian:
your car is breaking down so do you use the motion to run it up onto the grass verge, so safer for everyone, or do you keep it rolling preferably till its right on the entrance to a roundabout so it can cause utter mayhem, we all know the answer to that one
Muckaway:
Too many people see the “stop” light come on and take it literally and stop dead rather than limp off somewhere sensible.
Our yard gate has a “keep clear” sign on it yet someoene abandoned a knackered Clio last year right in front of it, complete with “broken down” notice. Like that helps when I can’t get by? What did help was a sling, D shackle and our JCB.
I completely agree Juddian, use the momentum to get off the carriageway. Now you mention it Muckaway, I wonder how many accidents are caused by people seeing the ‘STOP’ light come on slamming on the breaks to be rear-ended.
danalex84:
Juddian:
your car is breaking down so do you use the motion to run it up onto the grass verge, so safer for everyone, or do you keep it rolling preferably till its right on the entrance to a roundabout so it can cause utter mayhem, we all know the answer to that oneMuckaway:
Too many people see the “stop” light come on and take it literally and stop dead rather than limp off somewhere sensible.
Our yard gate has a “keep clear” sign on it yet someoene abandoned a knackered Clio last year right in front of it, complete with “broken down” notice. Like that helps when I can’t get by? What did help was a sling, D shackle and our JCB.I completely agree Juddian, use the momentum to get off the carriageway. Now you mention it Muckaway, I wonder how many accidents are caused by people seeing the ‘STOP’ light come on slamming on the breaks to be rear-ended.
Didn’t the advice some years back be, stick it in first and use the starter to drag it out the way?
pierrot 14:
BossHogg:
Our patrol cars are more than capable, you can imagine the outcry if we used them beyond their capability leading to expensive repair bills, we would be accused of wasting tax payers money.What a load of bull!! So the fact that you can’t remove a vehicle just in case it might cost a bit of compo, what does that compare to the fact that the motorway is at a standstill and that millions are being lost in revenue of all sorts. Move the obstruction to the hard shoulder, surely that would be the better option, get the motorway up and running.
Same old same old usual BS , can’t do that, it might end up in court etc. don’t want to be sued etc.
Wouldn’t happen anywhere else but the UK.
You have hit the nail on the head Pierrot, sadly we now have a culture over here in the UK where if there is a blame there must be a claim, and its a crying shame. The lost revenue and impact on peoples lives seem to have no baring anymore on this society, just as long as the correct number of cones have been used to bring misery and cause financial damage to those stuck in the queues of traffic.
I can confirm that the land cruisers the hatos use are more than capable. I was towed off the slip road at j24 of the M1. Unfortunately the problem was a broken spring on the clutch, and it was stuck between gears. My old boss successfully sued the ha for the costs, as the tow mullared everything. Did about 3k of damage to the box. Volvo tore the recovery company a new one, as they thought it’d been towed without the prop or half shafts taken off
To be fair i don’t think anyone’s suggesting towing artics around, save maybe a tug when its stuck on ice or snow (when grip limitations will ensure the towing vehicle can’t really be damaged) when a lorry breaks down its really just one of those things and we have to put up with it.
Its different when its a car stopped or lightly damaged, most times it wouldn’t take a genius to slip the thing into neutral and see if it will roll by trying to push it, if no obvious gear resistance then common bloody sense tells you to slip a strap onto the towing eye and just pull it to somewhere safe a few yards away.
I do take the point if people saddle themselves with over-complicated cars where neutral can’t be found unless computer says yes, but thats something govts and makers should sort out between them for such situations, eg all my Toyota 4x4’s have had a small manual button beside the autogearlever that when pressed enables the gear shift to be moved whatever has happened, similarly a maker wouldn’t or shouldn’t be stupid enough or allowed to fit an electric parking brake either…and don’t get me started on Volvo being lunatic enough to fit EPB’s to their lorries 
WTF were they thinking, more to the point WTF are lorry operators doing buying into this rubbish that no one asked for and no earthly reason to want, i wouldn’t allow one on my premises if i was an operator.
If an EPB has to be fitted there should be a plate fixed permanently in place inside the glove box or other agreed place telling anyone who needs to know how to release the brake in an emergency, no emergency release no type approval granted.
Lets have a bit of common sense allowed back in.
OVLOV JAY:
I can confirm that the land cruisers the hatos use are more than capable. I was towed off the slip road at j24 of the M1. Unfortunately the problem was a broken spring on the clutch, and it was stuck between gears. My old boss successfully sued the ha for the costs, as the tow mullared everything. Did about 3k of damage to the box. Volvo tore the recovery company a new one, as they thought it’d been towed without the prop or half shafts taken off
There you go, leave it where it is and get slagged off for doing nothing, or drag it clear and get sued! Damned if you do, damned if you don’t!!!
BossHogg:
OVLOV JAY:
I can confirm that the land cruisers the hatos use are more than capable. I was towed off the slip road at j24 of the M1. Unfortunately the problem was a broken spring on the clutch, and it was stuck between gears. My old boss successfully sued the ha for the costs, as the tow mullared everything. Did about 3k of damage to the box. Volvo tore the recovery company a new one, as they thought it’d been towed without the prop or half shafts taken offThere you go, leave it where it is and get slagged off for doing nothing, or drag it clear and get sued! Damned if you do, damned if you don’t!!!
Pretty much! I think the problem is modern trucks can stop for a multitude of gremlins. Who wants to risk it when an ecu can cost up to £5k to replace. It’s usually the people in the queues complaining (understandably) and the ha will probably rather deal with those frustrations, rather than solicitors letters for damage
Sorry if someone has already said it, but the reason why Police and HATO don’t move / drag stuff onto the hard shoulder is due to the risk of being sued if any damage or injury occurs.
The public sector are permanently in the limelight and are constantly a target. Therefore nobody is allowed to do anything in the public sector without 1st completing a training course.
“A mate of mine” was a copper for 14 1/2 years. Before that he was a mechanical fitter and extremely competent vehicle technician. After several years in the police he joined the traffic department. One day he happened across a car on the hard shoulder with a puncture. He changed the flat with the spare wheel and they were on their way.
A couple of weeks later “my mate” received a reg 9 from the professional standards branch. A reg 9 is a complaint by a member of public. It transpired that the member of public, he assisted, put in a complaint after she took her car for an MOT and it failed on a wheel bearing on the same corner that “my mate” had changed the wheel on.
Obviously nothing ever came of the complaint but when the facts came out “my mate” got an official verbal warning on his career record as he had conducted repairs to a vehicle without being qualified.
So, for the Audi in the OUTSIDE lane (Fast / slow lanes don’t exist) yes the police 4x4 could pull it out the way. I dare say the coppers were more than happy to do it, or have a go at it. But the powers that be and the public have created a world in which professional people don’t dare to try.
goshow:
Sorry if someone has already said it, but the reason why Police and HATO don’t move / drag stuff onto the hard shoulder is due to the risk of being sued if any damage or injury occurs.The public sector are permanently in the limelight and are constantly a target. Therefore nobody is allowed to do anything in the public sector without 1st completing a training course.
“A mate of mine” was a copper for 14 1/2 years. Before that he was a mechanical fitter and extremely competent vehicle technician. After several years in the police he joined the traffic department. One day he happened across a car on the hard shoulder with a puncture. He changed the flat with the spare wheel and they were on their way.
A couple of weeks later “my mate” received a reg 9 from the professional standards branch. A reg 9 is a complaint by a member of public. It transpired that the member of public, he assisted, put in a complaint after she took her car for an MOT and it failed on a wheel bearing on the same corner that “my mate” had changed the wheel on.
Obviously nothing ever came of the complaint but when the facts came out “my mate” got an official verbal warning on his career record as he had conducted repairs to a vehicle without being qualified.
So, for the Audi in the OUTSIDE lane (Fast / slow lanes don’t exist) yes the police 4x4 could pull it out the way. I dare say the coppers were more than happy to do it, or have a go at it. But the powers that be and the public have created a world in which professional people don’t dare to try.
Very sad state of affairs… 
They should have sent the bint a letter telling her to get a grip! 
Along with a fine for using an roadworthy car on the highway! 
What did she expect, a full MOT inspection before he changed the wheel?
BossHogg:
There you go, leave it where it is and get slagged off for doing nothing, or drag it clear and get sued! Damned if you do, damned if you don’t!!!
I’ve never understood why you lads get so much verbal agg from truckers …especially on here. 
I realise your hands are tied in many situations, but I for one would be happy, and safe in the knowledge that my wife and/or daughters were being kept safe if things ever went bad for them on the M.way.
So not all of us are critical. 
Not a ■■■■ thing to gain for me from that statement before anybody has a go.
pierrot 14:
BossHogg:
Our patrol cars are more than capable, you can imagine the outcry if we used them beyond their capability leading to expensive repair bills, we would be accused of wasting tax payers money.What a load of bull!! So the fact that you can’t remove a vehicle just in case it might cost a bit of compo, what does that compare to the fact that the motorway is at a standstill and that millions are being lost in revenue of all sorts. Move the obstruction to the hard shoulder, surely that would be the better option, get the motorway up and running.
Same old same old usual BS , can’t do that, it might end up in court etc. don’t want to be sued etc.
Wouldn’t happen anywhere else but the UK.
+1.says it all.
BossHogg:
There you go, leave it where it is and get slagged off for doing nothing, or drag it clear and get sued!
Probably the only way around this would be to change the laws to state that any vehicle breaking down on a motorway or similar road must be removed by the first available and suitable “official” vehicle as long as said persons responsible have received the appropriate training, eg: police, HATO etc. If they did that then it would become much harder for people to successfully sue the appropriate authority for damages.
For any car which can’t be towed across a couple of lanes of traffic without major damage, I’d suggest suing the maker for creating a car unsuitable for use (slightly different for trucks with the driveshaft thingy to the back). And anyway, if it’s an Audi A6 the less of those on the roads the better…! 
Edit: Effectively agree with Robroy on that one, good to know there’s someone there who is interested in keeping road users safe.
goshow:
Sorry if someone has already said it, but the reason why Police and HATO don’t move / drag stuff onto the hard shoulder is due to the risk of being sued if any damage or injury occurs.The public sector are permanently in the limelight and are constantly a target. Therefore nobody is allowed to do anything in the public sector without 1st completing a training course.
“A mate of mine” was a copper for 14 1/2 years. Before that he was a mechanical fitter and extremely competent vehicle technician. After several years in the police he joined the traffic department. One day he happened across a car on the hard shoulder with a puncture. He changed the flat with the spare wheel and they were on their way.
A couple of weeks later “my mate” received a reg 9 from the professional standards branch. A reg 9 is a complaint by a member of public. It transpired that the member of public, he assisted, put in a complaint after she took her car for an MOT and it failed on a wheel bearing on the same corner that “my mate” had changed the wheel on.
Obviously nothing ever came of the complaint but when the facts came out “my mate” got an official verbal warning on his career record as he had conducted repairs to a vehicle without being qualified.
So, for the Audi in the OUTSIDE lane (Fast / slow lanes don’t exist) yes the police 4x4 could pull it out the way. I dare say the coppers were more than happy to do it, or have a go at it. But the powers that be and the public have created a world in which professional people don’t dare to try.
Which is why I talk a person through changing a wheel if they feel confident enough, I won’t change it personally. I used to carry a spider in my kitbag, to enable motorists without a wheelbrace to change a wheel, but I got a bollocking off my bosses for having none approved kit in work. oh and it’s lane 1, 2, 3 etc. 
or in the smart motorway sections LBS1 LBS2 (Lane below signal 1)
robroy:
BossHogg:
There you go, leave it where it is and get slagged off for doing nothing, or drag it clear and get sued! Damned if you do, damned if you don’t!!!I’ve never understood why you lads get so much verbal agg from truckers …especially on here.
I realise your hands are tied in many situations, but I for one would be happy, and safe in the knowledge that my wife and/or daughters were being kept safe if things ever went bad for them on the M.way.
So not all of us are critical.Not a [zb] thing to gain for me from that statement before anybody has a go.
Which is why we’ve received extra training and got extra kit to try and clear lanes. We can now upright overturned vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes, we carry spill kit to deal with small fuel/oil spills, and our cars are fitted with electronic load cells so we can clear larger vehicles. Even with all this extra skills and kit, there will still be times when the vehicle is outside of our training parameters and we have to wait for recovery with bigger kit. If we feel that we may need recovery, we get it rolling before we try to clear anything, that way if we can’t move it, recovery is already rolling to save time.