I’m a 29 year driver with a CPC National Freight I took in 1990/91. I’ve not (as yet) used my CPC to gain an operators license. After explaining all this to an acquaintance of mine during a conversation about driver shortages he says to me “Why not become an owner driver? We’re currently looking for reliable experienced subbies.”
You are very special driver, anybody who takes his CPC National Freight at the age of 2 is very impressive!!!
Just what I thought.
Ken.
Then you’re an even dopier bugger than caledoniandream as I’d already posted this in reply to him…
Reef:
caledoniandream:
I’m a 29 year driver with a CPC National Freight I took in 1990/91. I’ve not (as yet) used my CPC to gain an operators license. After explaining all this to an acquaintance of mine during a conversation about driver shortages he says to me “Why not become an owner driver? We’re currently looking for reliable experienced subbies.”
You are very special driver, anybody who takes his CPC National Freight at the age of 2 is very impressive!!!
He said he’s been driving HGV’s for 29 years not that he is aged 29, ya dopey bugger!
For the record if you look at his profile he’s 51 years old.
I’m a 29 year driver with a CPC National Freight I took in 1990/91. I’ve not (as yet) used my CPC to gain an operators license. After explaining all this to an acquaintance of mine during a conversation about driver shortages he says to me “Why not become an owner driver? We’re currently looking for reliable experienced subbies.”
The job is with a well known operator, with 5 or 6 depots dotted around the country.
The work is all tautliner. The rate I’ve been offered is £330 a day basic just for turning up, plus 50p for every mile according to the tracker report. That’s for traction only. Their trailers, no rental.
If they park me in a corner for the day I earn a flat £330 regardless.
Daily average is +/- 450, mainly motorway miles, delivering to regular destinations, so its fair to suggest I could soon become familiar with the drops, hopefully saving time and money. The work is 7 days so there’s scope for the truck to work with a driver when I’m not working.
Although the work isn’t top weight, a 3 axle unit is a necessity, with their tri axle trailers, for the sake of back loads.
Payment terms are weekly after thirty days.
As mentioned I’m a lorry driver and I know driving lorries. But owner driving is a whole new ball game.
SO my question here is, how does it sound as a deal? What questions should I be asking?
Thanks for your input.
Basically 50p per mile is the cost of diesel per mile and your profit is limited to £330 minus whatever your standing costs + salary is. Does not matter what mileage you do if your standing costs are like Smithy says then your profit is ocked to the figure of approx £27 * 5 = £135 per week. Your choice whether you see it as a good thing or not
nsmith1180:
My standing costs per day, (including £78 a week for skelly hire) minus my salary are £133.67 a day.
Diesel based on 450 miles at 9.5mpg, reasonably easily done with a E6 wagon and a well set close coupled wind deflector: 215.34l a day, current price for me is 0.9593 per litre so £206.58 a day in diesel.
Total costs: £340.25
£550 a day - £340.25 = £209.75.
Name me one PAYE driver who can bring that in a day on general taut work.
My numbers are based on a five day working week.
The agency I have lined up just in case I need them will provide a driver at £125 a day for the driver + £30 commission so £155 plus any nights out if you need an agency driver. If you are going to put someone in on PAYE its pay rate x 1.138 to figure out costs.
If you are going to pay £10.50 an hour and pay all hours, thats 71 hrs x 10.50 = £745.50 x 1.138 = £848.38 so £169.68 a day in wages.
£209.75 - £169.68 = £40.07 profit a day or £10,418.20 per vehicle per year.
If the vehicle never works and just earns the £330 a day you still make £26.65 profit a day, even after paying the driver for a full days work!
Just to recap, thats accurate standing costs for a first year new operator + reasonable fuel cost calculations + worst case staffing costs. Not pie in the sky numbers.
You are guaranteed earnings, even if the wheels don’t turn and you have to do 1500 km a day before you start losing on the price per mile bit, (based on my running cost per mile), which is only feasable if you are double shifting the wagon and both drivers are doing 8.33 hours at flat out motorway miles.
If I had this offer on the table I’d be very seriously tempted but it would have to be in writing and would need to include a fuel cost escalator and a reasonable demurrage rate.
Thanks for your ongoing transparency and detailed breakdowns of figures smithy, it’s rather refreshing in this industry of cloak and daggers and smoke and mirrors. I have just a couple of questions…
am I right in thinking that if your on the boxes, that your heavy going out and light coming back in? Iv never done boxes.
With regards to 9.5mpg, we only get that with the Scania with us running 40tonnes plus 65% of the time and the other mileage is empty. With our fleet spec renaults we can’t get above 8.6mpg (didn’t you say you were opting for one?) anyone else getting the same?
And with regards to the agency, was the £125 quoted for 8 hours? What was the hourly after that?
Thanks in advance
Woody
nsmith1180:
My standing costs per day, (including £78 a week for skelly hire) minus my salary are £133.67 a day.
Diesel based on 450 miles at 9.5mpg, reasonably easily done with a E6 wagon and a well set close coupled wind deflector: 215.34l a day, current price for me is 0.9593 per litre so £206.58 a day in diesel.
Total costs: £340.25
£550 a day - £340.25 = £209.75.
Name me one PAYE driver who can bring that in a day on general taut work.
My numbers are based on a five day working week.
The agency I have lined up just in case I need them will provide a driver at £125 a day for the driver + £30 commission so £155 plus any nights out if you need an agency driver. If you are going to put someone in on PAYE its pay rate x 1.138 to figure out costs.
If you are going to pay £10.50 an hour and pay all hours, thats 71 hrs x 10.50 = £745.50 x 1.138 = £848.38 so £169.68 a day in wages.
£209.75 - £169.68 = £40.07 profit a day or £10,418.20 per vehicle per year.
If the vehicle never works and just earns the £330 a day you still make £26.65 profit a day, even after paying the driver for a full days work!
Just to recap, thats accurate standing costs for a first year new operator + reasonable fuel cost calculations + worst case staffing costs. Not pie in the sky numbers.
You are guaranteed earnings, even if the wheels don’t turn and you have to do 1500 km a day before you start losing on the price per mile bit, (based on my running cost per mile), which is only feasable if you are double shifting the wagon and both drivers are doing 8.33 hours at flat out motorway miles.
If I had this offer on the table I’d be very seriously tempted but it would have to be in writing and would need to include a fuel cost escalator and a reasonable demurrage rate.
Thanks for your ongoing transparency and detailed breakdowns of figures smithy, it’s rather refreshing in this industry of cloak and daggers and smoke and mirrors. I have just a couple of questions…
am I right in thinking that if your on the boxes, that your heavy going out and light coming back in? Iv never done boxes.
With regards to 9.5mpg, we only get that with the Scania with us running 40tonnes plus 65% of the time and the other mileage is empty. With our fleet spec renaults we can’t get above 8.6mpg (didn’t you say you were opting for one?) anyone else getting the same?
And with regards to the agency, was the £125 quoted for 8 hours? What was the hourly after that?
Thanks in advance
Woody
The agency rate was a day rate. Basically it’s what the agency pay for people to do the same job in their wagons so when they said, “We only pay our drivers by the hour,” I responded with, “fine, I want my back pat then” and they agreed to fixed costs!
On MPG. Last year I drove for Drivers Direct on the boxes in a 15 plate Range T. In the six months I was in it, that truck turned in a weekly average of 10.2 MPG. I didnt record weights but I was about 70‰ loaded. The Benz I am in now I have bullied up to 9.1 to the gallon over 40k km.
nsmith1180:
My standing costs per day, (including £78 a week for skelly hire) minus my salary are £133.67 a day.
Diesel based on 450 miles at 9.5mpg, reasonably easily done with a E6 wagon and a well set close coupled wind deflector: 215.34l a day, current price for me is 0.9593 per litre so £206.58 a day in diesel.
Total costs: £340.25
£550 a day - £340.25 = £209.75.
Name me one PAYE driver who can bring that in a day on general taut work.
My numbers are based on a five day working week.
The agency I have lined up just in case I need them will provide a driver at £125 a day for the driver + £30 commission so £155 plus any nights out if you need an agency driver. If you are going to put someone in on PAYE its pay rate x 1.138 to figure out costs.
If you are going to pay £10.50 an hour and pay all hours, thats 71 hrs x 10.50 = £745.50 x 1.138 = £848.38 so £169.68 a day in wages.
£209.75 - £169.68 = £40.07 profit a day or £10,418.20 per vehicle per year.
If the vehicle never works and just earns the £330 a day you still make £26.65 profit a day, even after paying the driver for a full days work!
Just to recap, thats accurate standing costs for a first year new operator + reasonable fuel cost calculations + worst case staffing costs. Not pie in the sky numbers.
You are guaranteed earnings, even if the wheels don’t turn and you have to do 1500 km a day before you start losing on the price per mile bit, (based on my running cost per mile), which is only feasable if you are double shifting the wagon and both drivers are doing 8.33 hours at flat out motorway miles.
If I had this offer on the table I’d be very seriously tempted but it would have to be in writing and would need to include a fuel cost escalator and a reasonable demurrage rate.
Thanks for your ongoing transparency and detailed breakdowns of figures smithy, it’s rather refreshing in this industry of cloak and daggers and smoke and mirrors. I have just a couple of questions…
am I right in thinking that if your on the boxes, that your heavy going out and light coming back in? Iv never done boxes.
With regards to 9.5mpg, we only get that with the Scania with us running 40tonnes plus 65% of the time and the other mileage is empty. With our fleet spec renaults we can’t get above 8.6mpg (didn’t you say you were opting for one?) anyone else getting the same?
And with regards to the agency, was the £125 quoted for 8 hours? What was the hourly after that?
Thanks in advance
Woody
The agency rate was a day rate. Basically it’s what the agency pay for people to do the same job in their wagons so when they said, “We only pay our drivers by the hour,” I responded with, “fine, I want my back pat then” and they agreed to fixed costs!
On MPG. Last year I drove for Drivers Direct on the boxes in a 15 plate Range T. In the six months I was in it, that truck turned in a weekly average of 10.2 MPG. I didnt record weights but I was about 70‰ loaded. The Benz I am in now I have bullied up to 9.1 to the gallon over 40k km.
nsmith1180:
My standing costs per day, (including £78 a week for skelly hire) minus my salary are £133.67 a day.
Diesel based on 450 miles at 9.5mpg, reasonably easily done with a E6 wagon and a well set close coupled wind deflector: 215.34l a day, current price for me is 0.9593 per litre so £206.58 a day in diesel.
Total costs: £340.25
£550 a day - £340.25 = £209.75.
Name me one PAYE driver who can bring that in a day on general taut work.
My numbers are based on a five day working week.
The agency I have lined up just in case I need them will provide a driver at £125 a day for the driver + £30 commission so £155 plus any nights out if you need an agency driver. If you are going to put someone in on PAYE its pay rate x 1.138 to figure out costs.
If you are going to pay £10.50 an hour and pay all hours, thats 71 hrs x 10.50 = £745.50 x 1.138 = £848.38 so £169.68 a day in wages.
£209.75 - £169.68 = £40.07 profit a day or £10,418.20 per vehicle per year.
If the vehicle never works and just earns the £330 a day you still make £26.65 profit a day, even after paying the driver for a full days work!
Just to recap, thats accurate standing costs for a first year new operator + reasonable fuel cost calculations + worst case staffing costs. Not pie in the sky numbers.
You are guaranteed earnings, even if the wheels don’t turn and you have to do 1500 km a day before you start losing on the price per mile bit, (based on my running cost per mile), which is only feasable if you are double shifting the wagon and both drivers are doing 8.33 hours at flat out motorway miles.
If I had this offer on the table I’d be very seriously tempted but it would have to be in writing and would need to include a fuel cost escalator and a reasonable demurrage rate.
Thanks for your ongoing transparency and detailed breakdowns of figures smithy, it’s rather refreshing in this industry of cloak and daggers and smoke and mirrors. I have just a couple of questions…
am I right in thinking that if your on the boxes, that your heavy going out and light coming back in? Iv never done boxes.
With regards to 9.5mpg, we only get that with the Scania with us running 40tonnes plus 65% of the time and the other mileage is empty. With our fleet spec renaults we can’t get above 8.6mpg (didn’t you say you were opting for one?) anyone else getting the same?
And with regards to the agency, was the £125 quoted for 8 hours? What was the hourly after that?
Thanks in advance
Woody
The agency rate was a day rate. Basically it’s what the agency pay for people to do the same job in their wagons so when they said, “We only pay our drivers by the hour,” I responded with, “fine, I want my back pat then” and they agreed to fixed costs!
On MPG. Last year I drove for Drivers Direct on the boxes in a 15 plate Range T. In the six months I was in it, that truck turned in a weekly average of 10.2 MPG. I didnt record weights but I was about 70‰ loaded. The Benz I am in now I have bullied up to 9.1 to the gallon over 40k km.
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Thanks for the speedy response smithy… I never doubted that you would’ve done your homework with the nature of your previous posts, so hopefully your Renault will come good… it would be soul destroying to get a unit that’s costing £100 a week more in diesel when you know there is the same unit out there performing as you would wish. Iv always wanted to see some data comparison, to see how much vehicle spec and set up makes a difference e.g. steered tag against fixed, steered trailer against fixed, lightweight aftermarket body parts etc
So if your doing 450 miles a day, which sounds high if your doing alot of waiting on the boxes, your projected earnings are circa £1000 a week? Have you been doing long enough to know if that’s what’s happening?
Ta woody
Mattwoodtransport:
Thanks for your ongoing transparency and detailed breakdowns of figures smithy, it’s rather refreshing in this industry of cloak and daggers and smoke and mirrors. I have just a couple of questions…
Woody
I’ve just never worked anything out in detail. nsmith and I are polar opposites :lol
In our job we end up standing vehicles quite a bit and it’s all a bit finger in the air at the start of the year as to if it’s a lot or a little of standing. The ppm reflects that time spent standing, but there’s quite a bit of guesswork.
As there are only five hauliers in the uk in our line of work and I’m fairly certain there is a driver from a competitor on here, I really wouldn’t want to give too much away.
Mattwoodtransport:
Thanks for your ongoing transparency and detailed breakdowns of figures smithy, it’s rather refreshing in this industry of cloak and daggers and smoke and mirrors. I have just a couple of questions…
Woody
I’ve just never worked anything out in detail. nsmith and I are polar opposites [emoji38]
In our job we end up standing vehicles quite a bit and it’s all a bit finger in the air at the start of the year as to if it’s a lot or a little of standing. The ppm reflects that time spent standing, but there’s quite a bit of guesswork.
As there are only five hauliers in the uk in our line of work and I’m fairly certain there is a driver from a competitor on here, I really wouldn’t want to give too much away.
Matt.
14 weeks on boxes.
Average distance 1187 miles
Average invoice £1850ish
Albion :
Yr 1, I’m more than happy to share. It was very hard finding even rough numbers when I was sat down pondering. From Yr 2 I can see me getting a lot more cagey, but still sharing more than most!
As for the finger-in-the-air vs data driven approach, it’s different strokes for different folks but if I wasn’t data ■■■■, I would have already gone pop. I spotted that my first job was loss making the day before the first invoice was paid!
I don’t have the info nsmith to really plan. I don’t get anything from my customer other than its going to be a busy/quiet for a while. Yet they need us to provide drivers and vehicles at the drop of a hat. No hire firm has the right vehicles or trailers and no agency can provide drivers with the right qualifications.
albion:
… I don’t get anything from my customer other than its going to be a busy/quiet for a while. Yet they need us to provide drivers and vehicles at the drop of a hat. No hire firm has the right vehicles or trailers and no agency can provide drivers with the right qualifications…
I cant be the only one here grinding the brain cells, try to work out what on earth you do albion! Lots of clues…vans upto artics, UK and Euro work, single and double manned and only 5 other competitors!!
Mattwoodtransport:
Thanks for your ongoing transparency and detailed breakdowns of figures smithy, it’s rather refreshing in this industry of cloak and daggers and smoke and mirrors. I have just a couple of questions…
Woody
I’ve just never worked anything out in detail. nsmith and I are polar opposites [emoji38]
In our job we end up standing vehicles quite a bit and it’s all a bit finger in the air at the start of the year as to if it’s a lot or a little of standing. The ppm reflects that time spent standing, but there’s quite a bit of guesswork.
As there are only five hauliers in the uk in our line of work and I’m fairly certain there is a driver from a competitor on here, I really wouldn’t want to give too much away.
Matt.
14 weeks on boxes.
Average distance 1187 miles
Average invoice £1850ish
Albion :
Yr 1, I’m more than happy to share. It was very hard finding even rough numbers when I was sat down pondering. From Yr 2 I can see me getting a lot more cagey, but still sharing more than most!
As for the finger-in-the-air vs data driven approach, it’s different strokes for different folks but if I wasn’t data ■■■■, I would have already gone pop. I spotted that my first job was loss making the day before the first invoice was paid!
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Another great post smithy, thanks again. I must’ve misinterpreted your figures from above of £550 a day, I’m guessing you must’ve been running someone else’s figures through your calculator for them.
So if your invoice is circa £1850 and your costs are £133 a day, this will leave you around £1200 of which your yet to fuel and depending how you do your books, give you some drawings. Will you stick at the boxes? Wow 14 weeks… I hadn’t realised it had been so long…
I sincerely hope that 1850 turns into 2850 real soon for you smithy, I haven’t done box work so can’t add any value to that.
Kind regards
Mattwoodtransport:
Another great post smithy, thanks again. I must’ve misinterpreted your figures from above of £550 a day, I’m guessing you must’ve been running someone else’s figures through your calculator for them.
So if your invoice is circa £1850 and your costs are £133 a day, this will leave you around £1200 of which your yet to fuel and depending how you do your books, give you some drawings. Will you stick at the boxes? Wow 14 weeks… I hadn’t realised it had been so long…
I sincerely hope that 1850 turns into 2850 real soon for you smithy, I haven’t done box work so can’t add any value to that.
Kind regards
Yeah, the £550 was based on the OPs numbers. I’m looking to stay on the boxes for a while. It won’t get me rich but it keeps me in bacon and eggs so I can’t complain.
The magic number for me at the mo is £2300 ish. I can pay standing costs, a big weeks diesel and a a drivers wage on that but we are struggling with consistency at the moment. It’s one of the reasons I’m looking at a used skeletal, if I own it I can reduce standing costs by £24 a week for certain, probably a bit more when insurance savings are factored in too. Every little helps.
As for Albion, I’m thinking you are on the gigs? Transam, Redburn, EST■■? and fly by nite are the only four I can think of and those mega dry boxes don’t exactly spend all year clogging up Dawsons’ yards. The only thing I’m not sure about, having never done it is if drivers also rig, if so, that would explain the lack of readily available agency muppets.
nsmith1180:
As for Albion, I’m thinking you are on the gigs? Transam, Redburn, EST■■? and fly by nite are the only four I can think of and those mega dry boxes don’t exactly spend all year clogging up Dawsons’ yards. The only thing I’m not sure about, having never done it is if drivers also rig, if so, that would explain the lack of readily available agency muppets.
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I don’t know why and I’m not 100% committed to this but I think it’s something to do with explosives or munitions, don’t ask me where I’ve got that from I’ve been here so long now and seen so many posts by so many different members but something in the murky waters of my memory makes that come to mind.
nsmith1180:
As for Albion, I’m thinking you are on the gigs? Transam, Redburn, EST■■? and fly by nite are the only four I can think of and those mega dry boxes don’t exactly spend all year clogging up Dawsons’ yards. The only thing I’m not sure about, having never done it is if drivers also rig, if so, that would explain the lack of readily available agency muppets.
Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk
I don’t know why and I’m not 100% committed to this but I think it’s something to do with explosives or munitions, don’t ask me where I’ve got that from I’ve been here so long now and seen so many posts by so many different members but something in the murky waters of my memory makes that come to mind.
We get busy at Xmas,I’ve never bought anyone an RPG for a pressie!
I think that’s a good idea nsmith, stick with the boxes for now and settle in and give yourself time to look around for something better. I started with general freight before specialising and in retrospect I’m glad I did, if only because it makes me respect those who can do general work and make it pay.
