Going back to my recent post where I explained how Syd Abraham the Manchester Bedford agents used Boyer Bros (Boalloy) to build the Bedford Pantechnicons they successfully sold through advertising in Commercial Motor in there hundreds but the story goes back much much earlier. Perhaps a reader from the Manchester area can explain the Manchester Vauxhall-Bedford agents line of succession & fill in the blanks I don’t know.
Before Syd Abraham adverts between the mid fifties & early sixties the Bedford agents Hills of Manchester ran a weekly advert in Commercial Motor offering Bedford SB Marsdens for immediate delivery which they had speculatively built. As I said these were Marsden but did not sell in the volumes enjoyed later by Syd Abram, but were not as cheap to buy as the Bedford Boalloys they offered but of course built to Marsden standards & certainly not cheap and nasty.
But going back even further My dad bought our first Bedford SB pantechnicon in 1952 which had been built to stock by Blakes who were Bedford agents. This again was a bit of abortion as the body builder certainly did not have Marsden’s flair.
So as I said can any Manchester reader explain the link from Blakes to Hills to Syd Abraham?
In 1952 my father had never heard of Marsden Coachbuilders Ltd who were known in Lancashire but had not yet made National fame they eventually gained & deserved.
However step forward to 1954 and he read again in Cmmercial Motor of a Bedford SB Pantechnicon for sale which was just over one year old and this was by Marsden Coachbuilders. Unfortunately I do not have (as yet) a photo of CDJ in our livery but through the magic of the internet I do have one when it was new to Crosby Springs of St Helens who my dad purchased it off. For anyone who remembers Marsden’s SBs of the 60’s the DNA is certainly there. Marsdens had got rid of the ‘Front bulge of the Bedford S type that the SB was based on which even Duple at this time had not on their coaches. When you consider the cab & front end was not Fibreglass made in the mould but hand built and bent in aluminium you can see their coachbuilding skills. So below see our NUP supplied by Blakes (Bodybuilder unknown) & CDJ built by Marsden.
Gordon Ball
20 hrs ·
Calling on all who can remember a program on television in about 1986 called the Junior Cook of the Year with Thorn EMI,
I was a hgv driver with W,H,Williams in Spennymoor & we transported the set used then set it up in hotels then finished in the Savoy in London we worked with tv personalities one such person was a Terry Waite the Archbishop of Canterburys Special envoy, in conversation in the Savoy in London because I was a northern man he asked if I knew a Malcolm Anderson from Newcastle that he got released from captivity probably Beirut as a short time after he himself was taken hostage by hezbollah in Beirut by Islamic extremists in 1987-1991 Terry was a towering man even tall to me being 6-1" and he was a nice man to talk to.
Gordon Ball
20 hrs ·
Calling on all who can remember a program on television in about 1986 called the Junior Cook of the Year with Thorn EMI,
I was a hgv driver with W,H,Williams in Spennymoor & we transported the set used then set it up in hotels then finished in the Savoy in London we worked with tv personalities one such person was a Terry Waite the Archbishop of Canterburys Special envoy, in conversation in the Savoy in London because I was a northern man he asked if I knew a Malcolm Anderson from Newcastle that he got released from captivity probably Beirut as a short time after he himself was taken hostage by hezbollah in Beirut by Islamic extremists in 1987-1991 Terry was a towering man even tall to me being 6-1" and he was a nice man to talk to.
We did the Junior Cook f the year for about 8 or 9 years It toured UK with the Final at The Savoy London. For us it occupied 2 vans, 2 drivers & 2 porters for about 20 weeks each year. Our vans used to be parked outside under the Savoy canopy… How I wished we had a photo but in those days we never thought. A better photo could have been taken by the same driver Gordon Ball, on one occasion when he was delivering to Buckingham Palace whe he was parked next to ‘The Gold Coach’ which was outside being polished. Its ironic that now he’s a keen amateur photographer.
This photo has just turned up on Facebook. Bedford at John O’Groats. Chap on right Billy westgarth who would be the porter but can’t identify driver on left. As there was a porter suspect it was a removal also as the Bedford Marsden had black number plates pre ‘F Reg’
Carl Williams:
This photo has just turned up on Facebook. Bedford at John O’Groats. Chap on right Billy westgarth who would be the porter but can’t identify driver on left. As there was a porter suspect it was a removal also as the Bedford Marsden had black number plates pre ‘F Reg’
Hi Carl, I think the guy with Billy Westgarth is one of his drinking buddies Joe Angus. Unless he was employed by you he was probably having a trip out with Billy.
Carl Williams:
This photo has just turned up on Facebook. Bedford at John O’Groats. Chap on right Billy westgarth who would be the porter but can’t identify driver on left. As there was a porter suspect it was a removal also as the Bedford Marsden had black number plates pre ‘F Reg’
Hi Carl, I think the guy with Billy Westgarth is one of his drinking buddies Joe Angus. Unless he was employed by you he was probably having a trip out with Billy.
Hi Mysterrron Joe Angus’ sister has been on Facebook & explained.We had Alan Angus a driver with us & I got confused but apparently they were not related. Also from memory Billy Westgarth was a none driver & worked in the workshops manly servicing trailers & we must have been short staffed & sent him as a porter, & his friend gone for a ride & presumably the driver whoever that was took the photo.As I stated above I just can’t make out the reg number but as it had black number plates on before we started using white on front & yellow on rear the van is a Bedford Marsden pre 1967 but I can’t make out which one as we had 14 or so identical from the rear new 1961-67 and some running up to 1980 with shutter & walk in tailboard as that one has. But by the photo Bill Westgarth looks at least about 20 and so it was at most about 45 years ago.about 1973 plus
In our day, when we put a new vehicle on the road, or started a new driver for an old one for that matter we chose someone that not only could we trust but respect.
And yet it would appear that today in many cases its not the case. It’s hard to imagine giving someone a piece of equipment costing about £100,000 to use and take care of and deny them the courtesy and care you would offer a pet dog.
I have just heard of a case of a driver breaking down about 200 miles from his base and recovered into a main dealership, which was based on an industrial estate about 3 miles from civilisation. Finding the vehicle with all breaks defective (Which speaks volumes of the operators maintenance system) the workshop advised they would be unable to complete the work by close of business that evening and would need to keep the vehicle in the workshops overnight. They managed to find the driver accommodation nearby for £45.
The driver asked them to inform his employers and they were told could they not just let him sleep in his cab in the workshops overnight, as they certainly would not pay £45. Being told that was not possible for insurance & security reasons they then insisted that they get their driver assisted with the workshop staff to push the vehicle outside the premises onto the public road so he could sleep there. This they were told would cost more than £45 & also the vehicle would the public road in an unroadworthy condition. They finally agreed to pay accommodation costs.
Which brings us into the question of Sleeper cabs and the present lot of the British lorry Driver. I often read criticism on Trucknet of the likes of Guy, AEC, Leyland & Atkinson of falling behind the European makes by not offering sleeper cabs but what the fail to understand that in those days they were illegal for use in UK. Drivers had by law to spend time away from their vehicle. I know many, infact all our drivers in the late 60’s, 70’s & 80’s slept in their vehicles. We turned a blind eye to it. We paid a fair rate of subsistence whch was ageed by the Inland Revenue as tax free to cover bed, breakfast & evening meal and paid overnight parking fees on production of a ticket> With our drivers it was easy as the Bedford TK integral Pantechnicons they considered as sleeper cabs and all others they could at worst sleep in the back of the van. The Police turned a blind eye as it made their life easier as the drivers were providing security & so very little theft occurred.
Our drivers parked in the centre of paces such as Leicester, Oldham, Kingston On Thames and used their overnight money for nights out in the local pubs which they enjoyed and who can blame them as a lorry drivers job is a lonely life & the only time they met other humans when they stopped for a bite at Transport Cafes or had a night out with the lads.
Then along came the EEC or later EU (For simplicity I’ll give it true name German) and they imposed the Tachograph and German rules which were supposed to be safer. The Germans allowed sleeper cabs so in comes Sleeper cabs. At the same time I seem t remember the Inland Revenue stating that drivers who had the facility of a sleeper cab had a taxable benefit and so immediately reduced the cost hauliers were allowed to pay tax free for overnight accommodation as they no longer needed it. My attitude was that I would ignore it & just pay the same because if we got a simple tax inspector along I never would admit that any of our vehicles had sleeper cabs although by then they were starting to creep in on the tractor units. My opinion then as now is a driver should not be made to sleep in a cab it should be choice & also point out when lazy government employees like tax inspectors stay away from home overnight they stay, paid by us in 4 star hotels with swimming pools gyms etc, not in something little better than a garden shed.
Now I progress onto drivers hours. I remember when the longest spread was 14 hours (That takes you back many years) 11 hours maximum driving, max five & half then 30 min rest. A good driver had his day planned which transport café he’d stop at for his rest intervals and where he’d get to to stop overnight, He’d at least have a chat to mates from time to time. Now we have the drivers hours imposed by the Germans where they are told where they must stop, be it miles away from anywhere in a lay by with no toilet facilities. Granted they have fridges & microwaves in their sleeper cab but spend little if anytime away from the damned vehicle or have anyone to speak to.
Which was the healthier and safer?
Reading experts expressing their views on existence after death in a recent Newspaper article reminded me of an incident that happened to me when I was about 18 or 19.
The late John Willets worked for us when he was young, many years before he found fame building Stone fireplaces and he drove a Morris 2 tonner FG DPT100B (How I wish I had a photo) It was the Morris/BMC/Leyland that was designed which what was designed as the threpenny bit cab (because of its shape) but in this case we had it built new as a pantechnicon with an integral cab built on which made it much wider & the driving position was dreadful, with the gearbox quite a distance from the drivers seat & it was a crash gearbox. (For those too young to remember quite difficult to drive) but John had mastered it in particular discovering how he could adjust the governor that restricted the engine revs & speed so he could get about 60 mph plus, & adjusting it back again when he returned to us so no-one knew.
We had specified the BMC 3.8 litre engine instead of the standard 2.2 litre and as this was situated I the cab inside a cover the noise was dreadful. It was a vehicle I disliked driving as because as well as the noise you had to be a contortionist to change gears.
One morning John had been sent to Advance Throwing Mills ATM (Later called Advance Textile Mills to load a 7 drop load to Nottingham, Mansfield and Sutton in Ashfield. We were still operating in Marmaduke Street Spennymoor and it was to there that John returned when loaded about 10-15AM. We had the garage and parking are with my grand parents living at no 14 & our office nxt door at no 16.
John came and told me he would park up and leave early the next morning as it was too late then to do it in the one day. I told him it had to go then as one of the deliveries was urgent for that day. John refused So I told him to go home and I would take it and I would be empty & home that night.
So there I was having to prove I could do what he said he could not. I went into the office & told our then office manager a Mrs Dennis where I was going & tell my father when he returned in about one hour. I had one of our van lads who had been working with working in the garage so I took him with me.
Off I went and as the day progressed I found myself pulling into Pretty Polly the Ladies tights manufacturers in Sutton in Ashfield at 4.15PM which was my second last delivery and I could only see about 3 foot ahead as the fog was so dense. Pretty Polly at that time owned ATM (Later it was taken over by Monsanto the huge American Company) and parked up was one of ATM’s own vans with a driver who lived in Crook Co.Durham and he told me he’d had enough, & wasn’t going to risk his life in the fog & would start again the next morning to finish off his deliveries, one of which was in Mansfield (notts) which was where my final delivery was & as I only had three cartons could he take them for me. ‘No’ he replied ‘ You get paid for delivery you deliver’
In this day with Sat navs drivers will find it hard to understand we could only find our ways to towns by maps & when you got your final destination by asking local people for directions. The ATM driver did me the small favour of sketching my journey on the back of a ■■■ packet telling me I’d have to put a move on as they closed at five.
Off I went. How we found our way in the fog I’ll never know but we got there for 10 to 5. Did the delivery & then off on our way back to Spennymoor. On an ordinary day the return journey from Mansfield to Spennymoor would take about 3 hours but in the fog …
I was delighted when eventually I got onto the A1 and was travelling about 25-30 mph with my eyes pierced looking for tail lights of vehicles in front, but there were few as not many as mad as me on the road.
At about Ferrybridge I heard this loud whistle and I slowed down to see Police with torches as an artic of Davisons (Direct Transport) Shildon with the trailer straight across the carriageway and the police led me with their torches onto the centre reservation and round the stationary artic. Had the whistle sound not happened I would have driven straight into it & probably been killed.
To this day I cannot understand where the whistle came from or how over the deafening noise of the engine I heard it. Over the years I have asked many police did they have an extreme whistle warning & they could give no explanation.
Not long afterwards the fog cleared & I got home safely about 10-00PM.
Years later we took over ATMs 9 vehicle fleet & offered employment to their 9 drivers 5 of whm accepted. I always wished I could remember which one I’d met at the Pretty Polly Factory who refused to do me the favour of taking off me the three boxes & given me a 45 min earlier start on my journey home.
The van in the photo as a new Seddon we put on the ATM contact which was driven by Dennis Lee who himself died in a very nasty road accident about 2 years after we stopped trading In 1986.
As far as life after death I always wondered it the whistle was a warning from the other side. Just by the way John or Dennis if you are reading this in the after life please don’t pay me a visit to let me know as I rather be left guessing
When we moved from Marmaduke Street to Green Lane Industrial Estate Spennymoor, I signed a five year contract with Esso to supply our diesel Min 5,000 gallon per week & Lubrication oil and here is an advert they put on the Officia Opening of the new Depot,.
Five years later our demand had increased to minimum of 8,000 gallon a week and BP agreed to supply cheaper & I think it was an 8 year contract I signed
Carl Williams:
When we moved from Marmaduke Street to Green Lane Industrial Estate Spennymoor, I signed a five year contract with Esso to supply our diesel Min 5,000 gallon per week & Lubrication oil and here is an advert they put on the Officia Opening of the new Depot,.
Five years later our demand had increased to minimum of 8,000 gallon a week and BP agreed to supply cheaper & I think it was an 8 year contract I signed
I’m guessing the inclusion of the “wall chart” was the clincher for the deal with Esso then Carl?
As for the previous “Ferrybridge Incident”, and thinking seasonal here,could it not of been the Polar Express whistle? Lots of trains around that area, close to the main drag Another great recollection by the way, keep them coming
I hate to think how many van bodies Marsdens built for us from 3.5 ton GVW Transitsm Bedford CF, and Leyland FGs through to boxvans and Luton vans a hell of a lot integrals through to 40 ft trailers. Here is an advert they put when we opened our new depot on Green Lane Industrial Estate Spennymoor way back in 1973
I was relatively young when I bought my new Triumph Stag and at the time Rex Preston of our insurance brokers Preston-Powell told me if we hadn’t been spending as much on our Fleet Insurance I would not have got cover. In the event it was charged as just another vehicle at the rate per vehicle we paid. I, at the time thought it was rubbish he was saying, but when I hear the price in-experienced drivers pay for insurance today I understand. The photo was taken by my friend Malcolm Marsden, who like me is & was an ex Round Tabler. Its strange it just seems like yesterday, I remember the photo, taken near Sunderland Bridge Village, near Spennymoor, when I hardly remember yesterday
Carl Williams:
When we moved from Marmaduke Street to Green Lane Industrial Estate Spennymoor, I signed a five year contract with Esso to supply our diesel Min 5,000 gallon per week & Lubrication oil and here is an advert they put on the Officia Opening of the new Depot,.
Five years later our demand had increased to minimum of 8,000 gallon a week and BP agreed to supply cheaper & I think it was an 8 year contract I signed
I`m sure I delivered regular to Green Lane Industrial Estate in Spennymoor ,were Black n Decker there?
Carl Williams:
When we moved from Marmaduke Street to Green Lane Industrial Estate Spennymoor, I signed a five year contract with Esso to supply our diesel Min 5,000 gallon per week & Lubrication oil and here is an advert they put on the Officia Opening of the new Depot,.
Five years later our demand had increased to minimum of 8,000 gallon a week and BP agreed to supply cheaper & I think it was an 8 year contract I signed
I`m sure I delivered regular to Green Lane Industrial Estate in Spennymoor ,were Black n Decker there?
Yes you are right, Ramone
As you entered On the left hand side was Watson’s carriers (Tayforth group) Black & Decker on right (2000 emp aprox) Then Tomado (200 emp) To the Left Us (250 employees) to the right Rothmans (1500 emp aprox) then Courtaulds (2900 emp aprox) Watsons , Black & Decker & Tomado demolished for housing Our premises now Shep (The blue pallet people) Courtaulds greatly demolished & split into small units Rothmans the last I heard massive as it is used by local authority storing the blue bin recycling rubbish as they don’t know how to recycle (rat infested I would expect) and just accross the fields the massive Smart & Brown (Thorn EMI) 7,500 employees mostly demolished and replacing gradually by housing development
It makes you wonder why they need all the extra housing as all those jobs gone
Carl Williams:
How many people remember Rex Preston & Preston Powell
Him Carl
Rex Preston & Preston Powell were our insurance brokers for most of the 60’s through to the mid 80’s.
IIRC Rex retired and then the remaining directors sold out to a larger company.
Carl Williams:
How many people remember Rex Preston & Preston Powell
Him Carl
Rex Preston & Preston Powell were our insurance brokers for most of the 60’s through to the mid 80’s.
IIRC Rex retired and then the remaining directors sold out to a larger company.
Tyneside
Talking about Rex Preston
Talking about Rex Preston of Preston Powell our insurance brokers in the late 60’s -70s ,it was Rex who helped me stop my Grandfather driving.
My grandfather seen on photo standing outside no 14 Marmaduke Street,Spennymoor in 1965 with one of the nineteen Rover cars he ran during his driving life. outside the house where he was born in 1891 and lived all his life, was driving his 2nd Rover 2000 when my Grandmother died.
Traditionally he went every Thursday to Stockton On Tees mainly to get his Tripe & chittling from Wilies Tripe stall in Stockton Market. His tailor H& M Martin who at the time had a shop where the ‘new’ shopping centre is now. Nearby Clinkards shoe shop (Their first) where Mr Clinkard fixed my grandmother u with shoes she could walk in ( In her mind he was the only man that got her shoes she didn’t fall over in. Then onto see Mr Winpenny where he bought his shirts. That shop is still marked as Winpenny house.
Then on a Friday it was Newcastle day when he went to vehicle parts suppliers like Thompson & Brown Bros & Bridges both in Cariol Square then round to Associated Engineering In the early days to pay in cash his weekly bill. In these days its hard to realise but we would ring in for parts and they went round to the bus station where the OK bus ran from to Bishop Auckland and gave the drivers the parcels and an hour later we met the bus outside ‘The Tivolli Cinema’ at Spennymoor and picked up the parts. I can remember when I was young walking down from Marmaduke Street to the Essoldo as it was then to pick a parcel of gaskets off the OK from Associated Engineering.
When my Grandmother died this ritual continued apart from by then we paid monthly by cheque but he still collected the few bits & pieces as we knew he went to Newcastle every Friday hail rain or snow.
A chap called Frank Wilkinson who lived at the top of Marmaduke Street then went for a ride out with him (He also called down each evening to share my Grandfather’s medicical nightly bottle of Whisky) Anyway one day Frank confessed to my dad that he had had to get out of the car to ‘Watch’ my Grandfather as he’d not seen the roundabout at Chester Le Street as he reversed back onto the road.
We told him he had to stop driving but those who knew him would know how stubborn he was & he took no notice. So I took Rex Preston round to meet him at Insurance renewal time & got him to say he couldn’t get insurance unless he took a driving test (My grandfather never had taken a test as when he started driving there was no such think) and so he stopped driving.
Hi Carl, your posts are always interesting, usually with social history value too. Thanks.
Your mention of the warning whistle reminded me of an odd thing that happened at our Amtrak parcels depot. I’ll preface it by saying that I don’t believe in ghosts or life after death.
One of our lads owned his own van and worked as a subby. He also had a second van for which he employed a driver. That driver, Joe, was a chirpy Liverpudlian who had worked locally for some years. This particular morning, we were loading his van when he poked my arm and said ‘ey John, I had a funny phone call this morning from a mate of mine. He told me to drive carefully today, he’d had a nightmare and woke up sweating. He dreamed I died in a crash.’
Bearing in mind that we started early his friend must have phoned him about 5.30 am. I said something about that and that his friend must have been scared for him to phone him at that time.
‘Yeah, well he said that he’d had a similar dream a couple of years ago about his Granddad dying and he did die later that day.’
I told him to drive carefully and forgot about it.
He rolled the van about lunchtime, not wearing his seatbelt and was killed. A weird coincidence.
