Done a little more maths on this subject and based on £1.35 per mile, and theoretically maxing out (or close to) your driving hours along with the other obvious things like VAT back on fuel etc, I ended up with a potential £650-£700 per week.
But as said, pension, holidays and sick pay etc, bring it broadly in line with a decent PAYE employment.
I suppose it suits the kind of person who likes a bit of control over their working life and enjoys blinging up their wagon (which I wouldn’t knock) 
Mattwoodtransport:
nsmith1180:
eagerbeaver:
Just having a nosy at this thread and by my rough maths it would seem that £1600 a week on expenditure vs average income would leave you with a £600ish gross per week.Forgive me for sounding a tad green, but is it worth all the hassle of being an O/D when you can get that as a wage and not give a toss about tyres shredding or a fuel pump going?
That 21.5k also includes the first 1k of my salary a month eagerbeaver. So at 600 a week profit, if I was happy to sit at one, I could in theory take home £2954 a month or £35488 a year after tax and NI.
I can think of many a driver who would love to take home 30k net of tax.
Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk
And of course the paye driver doesn’t have his phone, car, insurance etc etc ‘paid for’ … and the list goes on. I put my three weeks in Isle of Man this year through the books, I was of course ‘scoping’ for work… but it was mighty inconvenient that the TT races happened to be on at the same time… all those bands on and road closures… it’s no wonder I didn’t land a single scrap of work… I think I even went to Spain on business this year… I had to miss my mates stag do that also happened to be in Spain on the same weekend… who would’ve thought it?
On PAYE my tax code is 1657m,
considering the average code is 1150L
I get a right bit “paid for” as employee!!![emoji41] [emoji108]
Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
eagerbeaver:
But as said, pension, holidays and sick pay etc, bring it broadly in line with a decent PAYE employment.
I take your point about sick pay and holiday pay, (though my holidays will still pay, just not as much) but I argue the point on pensions.
If you run a older wagon owned outright then as an average you will have more income with which to provide for retirement. If you own a vehicle less than three years old you will have an asset that can be sold for around fifty grand. Plus the value of the business, etc and again you should been fairly comfortable in retirement.
Now let’s look a a pension based on income of £30k a year.
Let’s say you are a good boy and do more than the 1% auto enrolment figure. Let’s say you do 3% of your income.
That’s £900 a year which the boss will match, so £1800 in per worked year. Now most people don’t get serious about pensions until after 30, so let’s again assume you are a good boy and start saving on your 30th birthday. That gives you 38 years to squirrel away as much as you can.
That gives you a pension pot of £68400 at retirement age. I know there is likely to be investment income, but there is both economic inflation to deal with and tech inflation so its unlikely that your pot will be worth more than you put in in real terms.
Average life expectancy is about 92 years so you have to make that money last 24 years at least. That gives you a pension of £2850 a year, or £54 a week.
If you want to retire on £500 a week, to support a retirement of comfort, with a nice cruise every couple of years, perhaps take the grandkids to Disney, you need to have over £600k in the pot at retirement. That means saving £157.89 a week. Based on £30k a year thats 27% of income.
The way I look at it I have a better chance of building a million pound business than I do of a half million pound pension pot.
Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk
nsmith1180:
eagerbeaver:
But as said, pension, holidays and sick pay etc, bring it broadly in line with a decent PAYE employment.I take your point about sick pay and holiday pay, (though my holidays will still pay, just not as much) but I argue the point on pensions.
If you run a older wagon owned outright then as an average you will have more income with which to provide for retirement. If you own a vehicle less than three years old you will have an asset that can be sold for around fifty grand. Plus the value of the business, etc and again you should been fairly comfortable in retirement.
Now let’s look a a pension based on income of £30k a year.
Let’s say you are a good boy and do more than the 1% auto enrolment figure. Let’s say you do 3% of your income.
That’s £900 a year which the boss will match, so £1800 in per worked year. Now most people don’t get serious about pensions until after 30, so let’s again assume you are a good boy and start saving on your 30th birthday. That gives you 38 years to squirrel away as much as you can.
That gives you a pension pot of £68400 at retirement age. I know there is likely to be investment income, but there is both economic inflation to deal with and tech inflation so its unlikely that your pot will be worth more than you put in in real terms.
Average life expectancy is about 92 years so you have to make that money last 24 years at least. That gives you a pension of £2850 a year, or £54 a week.
If you want to retire on £500 a week, to support a retirement of comfort, with a nice cruise every couple of years, perhaps take the grandkids to Disney, you need to have over £600k in the pot at retirement. That means saving £157.89 a week. Based on £30k a year thats 27% of income.
The way I look at it I have a better chance of building a million pound business than I do of a half million pound pension pot.
Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk
I am the FACT that your wrong on the pension pot Smithy:
SIPP started 2009 £17k lump sum added another £10k 2011.
Been adding £125month (topped up by Gov another £25month) total £150month since 2011.
“Pot” now SIX yrs later sitting just over £80k and another 8yrs to go to the magic 60yrs whereby I shall take my 25% tax free lump sum and blow the rest on FAST living over next 10yrs!!![emoji41] [emoji108] [emoji106]
Have another nice wee public sector deferred pension to kick in@ 60yrs too so hope to be classed as “comfortable” in the “disposable income” stakes by then!!![emoji6]
Not forgetting the State pension of approx £145/week kicking in when 67yrs but hope to be lying “calved” on Spanish beach by then!!![emoji2]
Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
People on here make my laugh, try to force THEIR limitations that they set themselves as THEIR excuses for not having a go at anything.
Holiday, sick pay? Pathetic excuses, I havent had a sick day in over 8 years, because I’m not a fat wa nk er and look after myself, holidays? Holidays are for people who aren’t broke and can afford to give heir families the life they deserve.
You misread me when I said 50k per year, what I was getting at is even if my wage only comes in at around 25-30k per year the company name will still have turnover of much higher than that, the fuel bill alone would double the figure. That all makes a difference to the banks.
People on the internet fail to recognise that none of these opinions actually matter because there is no credibility, someone who is starting a business who asks for a little advice on here suddenly changes his mind because “bigtruck69” or “truckerjoebloggs” says your a dreamer should never be going into business in the first place.
What actually matters is getting off your lazy backside and crunching the numbers, doing the research, looking at where people failed in the past and where people succeeded.
You lot can all carry on telling us about your excuses for not doing something if you like, leave the hard work to people who want it and complain when you aren’t doing as well.
Hinton:
People on here make my laugh, try to force THEIR limitations that they set themselves as THEIR excuses for not having a go at anything.Holiday, sick pay? Pathetic excuses, I havent had a sick day in over 8 years, because I’m not a fat wa nk er and look after myself, holidays? Holidays are for people who aren’t broke and can afford to give heir families the life they deserve.
You misread me when I said 50k per year, what I was getting at is even if my wage only comes in at around 25-30k per year the company name will still have turnover of much higher than that, the fuel bill alone would double the figure. That all makes a difference to the banks.
People on the internet fail to recognise that none of these opinions actually matter because there is no credibility, someone who is starting a business who asks for a little advice on here suddenly changes his mind because “bigtruck69” or “truckerjoebloggs” says your a dreamer should never be going into business in the first place.
What actually matters is getting off your lazy backside and crunching the numbers, doing the research, looking at where people failed in the past and where people succeeded.
You lot can all carry on telling us about your excuses for not doing something if you like, leave the hard work to people who want it and complain when you aren’t doing as well.
Maybe some of us have did the O/D thing and came out of it in the short 4yrs nicely in the black with a single artic.
All fairly well documented on this very forum 9yrs ago!!!
Maybe some of us wouldn’t do it again.
Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
Hinton:
You lot can all carry on telling us about your excuses for not doing something if you like, leave the hard work to people who want it and complain when you aren’t doing as well.
Did you read previous posts? In business 26 years, two depots, 23 staff, could have retired last year at age 52, profit margin of 9-10% over the last few years.
It’s a fair comment to point out when someone says they can make £600.00 a week, that they should also include other obligations such as holiday pay, pension and sick pay if they want to make a direct comparison with a PAYE wage. Mattwood maybe taking three week holidays and putting it through the books, but if you are an OD with your own truck, that’s three weeks lost work.
I’m really struggling to see why you would label me as making an excuse for not doing anything when I’ve done it, got the t-shirt, and being blunt, more successfully than most.
nsmith1180:
.The way I look at it I have a better chance of building a million pound business than I do of a half million pound pension pot.
Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk
Aim for both
Big Truck:
nsmith1180:
eagerbeaver:
But as said, pension, holidays and sick pay etc, bring it broadly in line with a decent PAYE employment.I take your point about sick pay and holiday pay, (though my holidays will still pay, just not as much) but I argue the point on pensions.
If you run a older wagon owned outright then as an average you will have more income with which to provide for retirement. If you own a vehicle less than three years old you will have an asset that can be sold for around fifty grand. Plus the value of the business, etc and again you should been fairly comfortable in retirement.
Now let’s look a a pension based on income of £30k a year.
Let’s say you are a good boy and do more than the 1% auto enrolment figure. Let’s say you do 3% of your income.
That’s £900 a year which the boss will match, so £1800 in per worked year. Now most people don’t get serious about pensions until after 30, so let’s again assume you are a good boy and start saving on your 30th birthday. That gives you 38 years to squirrel away as much as you can.
That gives you a pension pot of £68400 at retirement age. I know there is likely to be investment income, but there is both economic inflation to deal with and tech inflation so its unlikely that your pot will be worth more than you put in in real terms.
Average life expectancy is about 92 years so you have to make that money last 24 years at least. That gives you a pension of £2850 a year, or £54 a week.
If you want to retire on £500 a week, to support a retirement of comfort, with a nice cruise every couple of years, perhaps take the grandkids to Disney, you need to have over £600k in the pot at retirement. That means saving £157.89 a week. Based on £30k a year thats 27% of income.
The way I look at it I have a better chance of building a million pound business than I do of a half million pound pension pot.
Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk
I am the FACT that your wrong on the pension pot Smithy:
SIPP started 2009 £17k lump sum added another £10k 2011.
Been adding £125month (topped up by Gov another £25month) total £150month since 2011.“Pot” now SIX yrs later sitting just over £80k and another 8yrs to go to the magic 60yrs whereby I shall take my 25% tax free lump sum and blow the rest on FAST living over next 10yrs!!![emoji41] [emoji108] [emoji106]
Have another nice wee public sector deferred pension to kick in@ 60yrs too so hope to be classed as “comfortable” in the “disposable income” stakes by then!!![emoji6]
Not forgetting the State pension of approx £145/week kicking in when 67yrs but hope to be lying “calved” on Spanish beach by then!!![emoji2]
Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
Looks like you got a good deal. I’m comparing to someone like me. 10 years of going nowhere jobs before getting my class 1 then 7 years of debt clearance and saving for o/d-ness. In all that time I’ve paid into a pension for all of about three months and that was the pension auto-enrolment at 1‰.
At the time setting up my working life was far more important than planning for retirement.
Buy now, when I look at my options, I’m 35yrs 11months and 26 days from retirement age and there is little to no hope of banging away enough to live at even 5‰ of income on PAYE. My future lies in building a business with value. Otherwise, I’m in serious trouble but I can’t live on what I’d earn now if I acted now to assure myself a comfortable retirement.
Anyway with my lifestyle a pension is a waste. I’m not going to make it much past 80 with all the visits I make to the Colonel and the clown’s eateries.
Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk
albion:
nsmith1180:
.The way I look at it I have a better chance of building a million pound business than I do of a half million pound pension pot.
Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk
Aim for both
Now that’s good advice.
Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk
nsmith1180:
albion:
nsmith1180:
.The way I look at it I have a better chance of building a million pound business than I do of a half million pound pension pot.
Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk
Aim for both
Now that’s good advice.
Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk
I haunt a pensions board on another forum and obviously the pension bods are very clear about funnelling lots of funds into a pension, good advice, but it’s a case of one size doesn’t fit all.
You are doing well for a new start nsmith, I’m sure you can manage to work out what will be successful for you. Personally I’ve done a bit of everything, pension, business, overpaying mortgage, it’s an approach that has worked for me, wouldn’t suit everyone.
There is some spurious advice flying around this thread, and some dodgy maths. Lets be clear, there is not a more tax efficient way to save for retirement than in a pension. There is the obvious investment return, and for every £80 you put in, the Govt will make that up to £100, with tax relief. It is free money, and anybody who is in a position to save and doesn’t, is naive.
Think about the gain you make over a thirty or forty year saving period. You can then draw 25% tax free, and supplement your state pension with the balance.
Looking at these ■■■ packet cashflow forecasts being bandied about, it seems to me ,they are based on a 52 week working year. You will not work a full 52 weeks. Even if you don’t take a holiday, there is Christmas, Bank Holidays etc, and then there are quiet periods of the job. Again, the forecasting is hopelessly naive.
What this means is that when you do actually work, and the penny finally drops that your margin is too small, and you carry on drawing the same wage, you slip ever deeper into debt, and go bust. C’est la vie. 
This type of haulier is not hard to find, just look in your mirror, they are normally tailgating you, or in a lay-by somewhere, living the dream. Zzz.
Janos:
There is some spurious advice flying around this thread, and some dodgy maths. Lets be clear, there is not a more tax efficient way to save for retirement than in a pension. There is the obvious investment return, and for every £80 you put in, the Govt will make that up to £100, with tax relief. It is free money, and anybody who is in a position to save and doesn’t, is naive.
Think about the gain you make over a thirty or forty year saving period. You can then draw 25% tax free, and supplement your state pension with the balance.Looking at these ■■■ packet cashflow forecasts being bandied about, it seems to me ,they are based on a 52 week working year. You will not work a full 52 weeks. Even if you don’t take a holiday, there is Christmas, Bank Holidays etc, and then there are quiet periods of the job. Again, the forecasting is hopelessly naive.
What this means is that when you do actually work, and the penny finally drops that your margin is too small, and you carry on drawing the same wage, you slip ever deeper into debt, and go bust. C’est la vie.
48 weeks is much more realistic to work out costs
58 weeks to work out labour.
Because a driver is entitled to 5.6 weeks leave in a year, so for 5.6 weeks you will be paying twice.
52 weeks to work out costs.
Because even if there is no one in the truck it still needs paying for.
50 weeks to project income.
Because if you have holiday cover the only time the truck can’t earn is when it’s in for planned maintenance. So if we say half a day for an inspection or service and two days for MOT prep and test you get 6.5 days plus the remaining 7.5 days for the slack periods where the truck will earn 3-4 days money for 5 days work. After all, it’s better to break even or even lose £500 on a slack week than to not work it at all and lose a grand for the week.
Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk
nsmith1180:
I’m on with Wincanton and I average £2200-2500 a week doing five days tramping and an average of nine boxes a week.On trailer hire, Collease are cheaper than both Maritime and Wincanton.
On unit hire, you might make a bit more profit if you use the one thats in the back of commercial motor all the time offering a Renault Premium for 295 a week on a three month minimum. If your mates are doing day work a premium will be fine At the moment I’m paying 380 a week for a 64 plate Bigspace Benz.
I don’t see how you could make it pay on one box a day given that on a directors salary, (1k a month) which is what I am on at the moment, mine costs £201 a day to run including a driver. Put a driver on medium pay in it, and that jumps to £277 a day.
Hi, hope you don’t mind me asking how many hours driving/working and how many miles are you covering on average to pull 2200-2500…
Not asking as I want to nit pick at your hourly rate. Genuinely interested.
Thanks
Rattray:
nsmith1180:
I’m on with Wincanton and I average £2200-2500 a week doing five days tramping and an average of nine boxes a week.On trailer hire, Collease are cheaper than both Maritime and Wincanton.
On unit hire, you might make a bit more profit if you use the one thats in the back of commercial motor all the time offering a Renault Premium for 295 a week on a three month minimum. If your mates are doing day work a premium will be fine At the moment I’m paying 380 a week for a 64 plate Bigspace Benz.
I don’t see how you could make it pay on one box a day given that on a directors salary, (1k a month) which is what I am on at the moment, mine costs £201 a day to run including a driver. Put a driver on medium pay in it, and that jumps to £277 a day.
Hi, hope you don’t mind me asking how many hours driving/working and how many miles are you covering on average to pull 2200-2500…
Not asking as I want to nit pick at your hourly rate. Genuinely interested.Thanks
Keep up at the back ! 
he’s jumped ship since then to barronhood and reinvented the curtainsider
Hinton:
To me going O/D isn’t about take home pay. As long as my bills are paid I’m happy.To me it’s about much more, as a driver on 120ish per day you take home is around 30k per year, you walk into a bank and ask for a loan because you want to pay for your kids university fees they will laugh you out of town.
You go in as a limited company director who’s company pulls in 50k gross plus and they might still snigger at you but there’s a much better chance you can set your kid up for life. I see so many people talk about how “you could drive new nice trucks for someone else” or you could earn 2500 a month for someone else with no stress, Yes… of course you can, but just because you earn the same as an O/D and half the amount of stress on your plate does not in any way mean you are better off.
Well said Hinton.
Plus you have the liberty to take a day off when you need one.
Anyway, all said, but MARITIME? NEVER AGAIN!!!
worse people that I ever had to deal with. Everything they offer, when you ask for details as a subbie, is a massive lie…
Punchy Dan:
Rattray:
nsmith1180:
I’m on with Wincanton and I average £2200-2500 a week doing five days tramping and an average of nine boxes a week.On trailer hire, Collease are cheaper than both Maritime and Wincanton.
On unit hire, you might make a bit more profit if you use the one thats in the back of commercial motor all the time offering a Renault Premium for 295 a week on a three month minimum. If your mates are doing day work a premium will be fine At the moment I’m paying 380 a week for a 64 plate Bigspace Benz.
I don’t see how you could make it pay on one box a day given that on a directors salary, (1k a month) which is what I am on at the moment, mine costs £201 a day to run including a driver. Put a driver on medium pay in it, and that jumps to £277 a day.
Hi, hope you don’t mind me asking how many hours driving/working and how many miles are you covering on average to pull 2200-2500…
Not asking as I want to nit pick at your hourly rate. Genuinely interested.Thanks
Keep up at the back !
C’mon Punchy, you know me, Have data, will share.
Looking back over the 4.5 months on Wincanton I averaged more like 1800-2000 a week, it tailed off a bit towards the end and when Barron Wood were talking about guarantees for January and February and Wincanton couldn’t guarantee tomorrow I jumped ship. Anyway here is one week in the life of Nick:
W/c 04/09/17 - picked totally at random.
Distance covered: 2370km
811l Diesel used 18l AdBlue
Invoiced: Circa £2100 + Vodka and Tonic
Monday: 13hr total duty. 07:41 drive 01:40 other work 03:32 break. £27 ONP 13h45 daily rest
Tuesday: 13hr30 tot duty: 07:33 drive 02:21 other work 03:36 break. £27 ONP 09hr10 daily rest
Wednesday: 10hr05 tot duty: 03:59 drive 01:36 other work 06:32 break ONP FOC 13hr35 daily rest
Thursday: 14hr40 tot duty: 09:40 drive 01:44 other work 03:16 break £18 ONP 11hr30 daily rest
Friday: 12hr50 tot duty: 07:26 drive 00:55 other work 04:25 break £12.50 ONP 10hr daily rest.
Saturday: 01hr35 tot duty: 01:07 drive 00:24 other work 00:00 break ONP at yard - Reduced weekly rest. Bigger breaky in the cafe!
Things to note:
i) This was shortly after my Septum Horribilis in which I had three break in attempts in about 7 worked days so the only reason parking was so cheap is that on Wednesday I was empty and parked at Prees Green where nobody pays anyway. Usually I will pay for parking if I am either loaded or stopped for more than 9 hours.
ii) Thursday I opted to crack on and get to Gloucester services rather than stop at Hopwood or Strencham. I had the time and was running late into the night so wanted to benefit from the emptier roads.
iii) I could have made it home on Friday but was tired and hungry and couldn’t really be bothered with it. Besides, I’m based at Junction 31 in Sheffield and the cafe does a stonkin breakfast. Plus I could drop in to Junction 1 truck wash and remember that I got a white lorry for once.
iv) This week is rather rare. I can count the number of reduced daily rests I had on containers without taking my shoes off and there are two in this week, but one of them was optional.
Nick I love your posts full of interesting facts and figures. Is that week on for B/W ?security must be a real worry with taut liner.
