I was not a fan of GUY or of the products of Gardner all i will say on the Big J is i had one from almost new and it was a horrible lorry,not as good as an AEC in my opinion and certainly now where near as comfortable as a tilt cab leyland or AEC.
Having to be a contorsionist to get top gear was not a good point.This will probably horrify the fans of british lorries such as Atkinson,ERF and Foden buy i never had experience of any of them albeit for a short time on a 'one off@ and glad too.
.
[/quote]
Some of the other members on the site don’t take kindly to the long drawn out banter and much prefer just two or three responses !! end of ! next shallow thread please !! Good Luck Bewick.
[/quote]
Bewick,Im fairly new here.Do you mean the moderators or other posters dont like threads drawn out,or is it something I`m missing?
Talking of last of a kind and it may have been asked before,if so apologies.I used to look after an Atki Borderer for W&M Watson the cardboard people.This had a 240 Gardner and DB box.The driver used to always say it was the last or nearly the last one built.He reckoned someone had bought all the bits and pieces from the factory when it closed and put together some motors,this being one of them.I cant remember the reg and I got rid of all my copy inspection records years ago,but Im sure someone will have a pic or know the reg.
Mark.
Gridley51:
.
Some of the other members on the site don’t take kindly to the long drawn out banter and much prefer just two or three responses !! end of ! next shallow thread please !! Good Luck Bewick.
[/quote]
Bewick,Im fairly new here.Do you mean the moderators or other posters dont like threads drawn out,or is it something I`m missing?
Talking of last of a kind and it may have been asked before,if so apologies.I used to look after an Atki Borderer for W&M Watson the cardboard people.This had a 240 Gardner and DB box.The driver used to always say it was the last or nearly the last one built.He reckoned someone had bought all the bits and pieces from the factory when it closed and put together some motors,this being one of them.I cant remember the reg and I got rid of all my copy inspection records years ago,but Im sure someone will have a pic or know the reg.
Mark.
[/quote]
Hiya Gridley ! nice to here from you on the site and yes you were spot on with your first question ! If a response is more than two lines and has a long word or two in it some of the members with severe learning difficulties find it an affront and start posting barbed comments!!! but it is still a free country/speech and I think there has been more positive comment than adverse !! I just think of the site as a Transport " Hyde Park Corner " with no harm meant and none taken !! There is an absolute treasure trove of incidents and stories out there if only the members and THE GUESTS would get motivated I am sure they could set the site on fire !! We can only live in hope Cheers Bewick.
Bewick:
Gridley51:
.Some of the other members on the site don’t take kindly to the long drawn out banter and much prefer just two or three responses !! end of ! next shallow thread please !! Good Luck Bewick.
Bewick,Im fairly new here.Do you mean the moderators or other posters dont like threads drawn out,or is it something I`m missing?
Talking of last of a kind and it may have been asked before,if so apologies.I used to look after an Atki Borderer for W&M Watson the cardboard people.This had a 240 Gardner and DB box.The driver used to always say it was the last or nearly the last one built.He reckoned someone had bought all the bits and pieces from the factory when it closed and put together some motors,this being one of them.I cant remember the reg and I got rid of all my copy inspection records years ago,but Im sure someone will have a pic or know the reg.
Mark.
[/quote]
Hiya Gridley ! nice to here from you on the site and yes you were spot on with your first question ! If a response is more than two lines and has a long word or two in it some of the members with severe learning difficulties find it an affront and start posting barbed comments!!! but it is still a free country/speech and I think there has been more positive comment than adverse !! I just think of the site as a Transport " Hyde Park Corner " with no harm meant and none taken !! There is an absolute treasure trove of incidents and stories out there if only the members and THE GUESTS would get motivated I am sure they could set the site on fire !! We can only live in hope Cheers Bewick.
[/quote]
Hi Dennis,
I see you have traded the wooden spoon for a Kenwood mixer. 
Cheers Dave.
I came across an article in a BRS book today that said all Guy production ceased in 1976 but they were still selling ones from stock 2-3yrs later. At that time they were assembling some crusaders and Scammell export models.
Bewick:
Gridley51:
.Some of the other members on the site don’t take kindly to the long drawn out banter and much prefer just two or three responses !! end of ! next shallow thread please !! Good Luck Bewick.
Bewick,Im fairly new here.Do you mean the moderators or other posters dont like threads drawn out,or is it something I`m missing?
Talking of last of a kind and it may have been asked before,if so apologies.I used to look after an Atki Borderer for W&M Watson the cardboard people.This had a 240 Gardner and DB box.The driver used to always say it was the last or nearly the last one built.He reckoned someone had bought all the bits and pieces from the factory when it closed and put together some motors,this being one of them.I cant remember the reg and I got rid of all my copy inspection records years ago,but Im sure someone will have a pic or know the reg.
Mark.
[/quote]
Hiya Gridley ! nice to here from you on the site and yes you were spot on with your first question ! If a response is more than two lines and has a long word or two in it some of the members with severe learning difficulties find it an affront and start posting barbed comments!!! but it is still a free country/speech and I think there has been more positive comment than adverse !! I just think of the site as a Transport " Hyde Park Corner " with no harm meant and none taken !! There is an absolute treasure trove of incidents and stories out there if only the members and THE GUESTS would get motivated I am sure they could set the site on fire !! We can only live in hope Cheers Bewick.
[/quote]
PS with regard to the last Atkinsons the factory at Walton-le-dale carried on building Sed Atks in late 75and we had P reg Atky Borderers alongside P reg Sed Atkys !! The last Atkinson built was a 8 wheeler which I think I have seen a picture of it on the site somewhere . But if you have a look on Big Als big truck site I am sure you will find out the full spiel Cheers Bewick.
Dave the Renegade:
Bewick:
Gridley51:
.Some of the other members on the site don’t take kindly to the long drawn out banter and much prefer just two or three responses !! end of ! next shallow thread please !! Good Luck Bewick.
Bewick,I
m fairly new here.Do you mean the moderators or other posters dont like threads drawn out,or is it something I`m missing?Talking of last of a kind and it may have been asked before,if so apologies.I used to look after an Atki Borderer for W&M Watson the cardboard people.This had a 240 Gardner and DB box.The driver used to always say it was the last or nearly the last one built.He reckoned someone had bought all the bits and pieces from the factory when it closed and put together some motors,this being one of them.I can
t remember the reg and I got rid of all my copy inspection records years ago,but Im sure someone will have a pic or know the reg.Mark.
Hiya Gridley ! nice to here from you on the site and yes you were spot on with your first question ! If a response is more than two lines and has a long word or two in it some of the members with severe learning difficulties find it an affront and start posting barbed comments!!! but it is still a free country/speech and I think there has been more positive comment than adverse !! I just think of the site as a Transport " Hyde Park Corner " with no harm meant and none taken !! There is an absolute treasure trove of incidents and stories out there if only the members and THE GUESTS would get motivated I am sure they could set the site on fire !! We can only live in hope Cheers Bewick.
[/quote]
Hi Dennis,
I see you have traded the wooden spoon for a Kenwood mixer.
Cheers Dave.
[/quote]
I couldn’d do any more with a No 10 Shovel Dave !!! Cheers D.
Gridley51:
Talking of last of a kind and it may have been asked before,if so apologies.I used to look after an Atki Borderer for W&M Watson the cardboard people.This had a 240 Gardner and DB box.The driver used to always say it was the last or nearly the last one built.He reckoned someone had bought all the bits and pieces from the factory when it closed and put together some motors,this being one of them.I cant remember the reg and I got rid of all my copy inspection records years ago,but Im sure someone will have a pic or know the reg.Mark.
Mark
If it’s the same motor as I’m thinking of, it’s sat behind the glass at Stobart’s HQ.
It’s registration no. is KSC999N and after Watsons it went on to run in the colours of Terry Godbold who hails from Harleston, Norfolk. He sold it to someone in Ireland and it then went to Stobart who have renovated it and painted it up to depict one of their old motors.
I don’t think it was one of the last ones built and the DB box must’ve been an eight-speed, which W&J Riding used in some of their 8LXB-engined Borderers around that time.
marky:
Gridley51:
Talking of last of a kind and it may have been asked before,if so apologies.I used to look after an Atki Borderer for W&M Watson the cardboard people.This had a 240 Gardner and DB box.The driver used to always say it was the last or nearly the last one built.He reckoned someone had bought all the bits and pieces from the factory when it closed and put together some motors,this being one of them.I cant remember the reg and I got rid of all my copy inspection records years ago,but Im sure someone will have a pic or know the reg.Mark.
Mark
If it’s the same motor as I’m thinking of, it’s sat behind the glass at Stobart’s HQ.
It’s registration no. is KSC999N and after Watsons it went on to run in the colours of Terry Godbold who hails from Harleston, Norfolk. He sold it to someone in Ireland and it then went to Stobart who have renovated it and painted it up to depict one of their old motors.
I don’t think it was one of the last ones built and the DB box must’ve been an eight-speed, which W&J Riding used in some of their 8LXB-engined Borderers around that time.
Yea Marky the 8 speed DB box was a nightmare and had been their answer to the bigger engines ( 8LXBs/■■■■■■■ ) I remember that the DB6 spd O/D box was not up to the torque of the ■■■■■■■ 220 we ran 3 from memory and you were lucky to get 60/70,000 miles before a rebuild was needed !! In my opinion the Fuller was the only decent box once you went above 180BHP.Unfortunately DB fell by the wayside after the failure of the 8 speed . Cheers Bewick.
marky:
If it’s the same motor as I’m thinking of, it’s sat behind the glass at Stobart’s HQ.It’s registration no. is KSC999N and after Watsons it went on to run in the colours of Terry Godbold who hails from Harleston, Norfolk. He sold it to someone in Ireland and it then went to Stobart who have renovated it and painted it up to depict one of their old motors.
I don’t think it was one of the last ones built and the DB box must’ve been an eight-speed, which W&J Riding used in some of their 8LXB-engined Borderers around that time.
Spot on, Mark, as I would expect of you!
After Terry bought it, he brought it up to Longton Coachcraft in Leyland for a sleeper pod and a repaint to match his still-operational Borderer. And a minor anorak-y correction for Dennis - the last Atkinson was built in April 1975 and was, as you say, a Gardner-engined Defender. Here’s a photo of it at the end of the line, as scanned by Mark from the Atkinson works negatives I hold. I also have photos of the ceremony outside, in which Atkinson artefacts were ceremonially buried in the factory grounds.
240 Gardner:
marky:
If it’s the same motor as I’m thinking of, it’s sat behind the glass at Stobart’s HQ.It’s registration no. is KSC999N and after Watsons it went on to run in the colours of Terry Godbold who hails from Harleston, Norfolk. He sold it to someone in Ireland and it then went to Stobart who have renovated it and painted it up to depict one of their old motors.
I don’t think it was one of the last ones built and the DB box must’ve been an eight-speed, which W&J Riding used in some of their 8LXB-engined Borderers around that time.
Spot on, Mark, as I would expect of you!
After Terry bought it, he brought it up to Longton Coachcraft in Leyland for a sleeper pod and a repaint to match his still-operational Borderer. And a minor anorak-y correction for Dennis - the last Atkinson was built in April 1975 and was, as you say, a Gardner-engined Defender. Here’s a photo of it at the end of the line, as scanned by Mark from the Atkinson works negatives I hold. I also have photos of the ceremony outside, in which Atkinson artefacts were ceremonially buried in the factory grounds.
Thanks for keeping me straight “240” I know 1975 was a tubulent time at Walton-le- Dale with the Oldham mob interffering a lot more. But maybe you can tell me were the new Sed/Atkys built at both factory’s as I’ve heard stories of the build quality at Oldham not been up to the standard of W-le D so we had a P reg 8LXB ( late 75 ) a ■■■■■■■ 250 P reg Sleeper (late 75) an 8LXB R reg Aug 76 and a 8LXB Sleeper R reg Jan 77 which factory would these various tractors have been built in do you think? We also as I previuosly mentioned put two new Borderers into service in Oct 75 so if the last chassis were built in April 75 these must have been standing around a while and if I remember rightly we were struggling to find new chassis ta that time !! Cheers Bewick.
Bewick:
240 Gardner:
Thanks for keeping me straight “240” I know 1975 was a tubulent time at Walton-le- Dale with the Oldham mob interffering a lot more. But maybe you can tell me were the new Sed/Atkys built at both factory’s as I’ve heard stories of the build quality at Oldham not been up to the standard of W-le D so we had a P reg 8LXB ( late 75 ) a ■■■■■■■ 250 P reg Sleeper (late 75) an 8LXB R reg Aug 76 and a 8LXB Sleeper R reg Jan 77 which factory would these various tractors have been built in do you think? We also as I previuosly mentioned put two new Borderers into service in Oct 75 so if the last chassis were built in April 75 these must have been standing around a while and if I remember rightly we were struggling to find new chassis ta that time !! Cheers Bewick.
Yes, they were built at both factories until the end of 1980. You could tell them apart, for a while, because they maintained the chassis number sequences of both factories, so a Walton-le-Dale motor would have a 30,000 chassis number (the last Atki was 29941). Oldham, I think, were in the 60,000 series at that time.
As I recall, Atkinson built all the rigids, which were almost identical to the old Atki range anyway, together with tractors segregated, I think, by engine maker to some degree. When the 401 was announced in November 1980, the first 250 were built at Walton-le-Dale, and all the initial publicity photos were taken in the Frenchwood and Walton-le-Dale areas, even though the factory was to be closed at year end with everyone laid off.
It used to be said that there was a discernibly higher warranty rate on Oldham-built 400 Series, although it must be said that this was asserted in Walton-le-Dale.
You mention interference, though - I knew an owner driver in Walton-le-Dale who ordered a late Borderer, specifying a 240 Gardner, Fuller and Kirkstall axle. He was advised by friends in the factory to visit it during build, to make sure that Seddon hadn’t tried to force the issue by presenting him with a completed lorry with a Seddon axle!
There was huge resentment of Seddon at Walton-le-Dale — they thought that Seddon made distinctly inferior lorries — to be fair, they were in a different market, I suppose.
Anyway, the press launch of the 400 Series was done from Walton-le-Dale, and if you see any of the launch photos, you’ll notice that the Seddon snails are missing from the n/s/r number plate bracket — that’s because it was fitted with an Atkinson plate, with the bolts bent over. Likewise, a Big A had gone on the grille. In the photos, all you see is the empty bolt holes in the bracket at the back, because the Seddon items were, erm…, mislaid 
240 Gardner:
Bewick:
240 Gardner:
Thanks for keeping me straight “240” I know 1975 was a tubulent time at Walton-le- Dale with the Oldham mob interffering a lot more. But maybe you can tell me were the new Sed/Atkys built at both factory’s as I’ve heard stories of the build quality at Oldham not been up to the standard of W-le D so we had a P reg 8LXB ( late 75 ) a ■■■■■■■ 250 P reg Sleeper (late 75) an 8LXB R reg Aug 76 and a 8LXB Sleeper R reg Jan 77 which factory would these various tractors have been built in do you think? We also as I previuosly mentioned put two new Borderers into service in Oct 75 so if the last chassis were built in April 75 these must have been standing around a while and if I remember rightly we were struggling to find new chassis ta that time !! Cheers Bewick.Yes, they were built at both factories until the end of 1980. You could tell them apart, for a while, because they maintained the chassis number sequences of both factories, so a Walton-le-Dale motor would have a 30,000 chassis number (the last Atki was 29941). Oldham, I think, were in the 60,000 series at that time.
As I recall, Atkinson built all the rigids, which were almost identical to the old Atki range anyway, together tractors segregated, I think, by engine maker to some degree. When the 401 was announced in November 1980, the first 250 were built at Walton-le-Dale, and all the initial publicity photos were taken in the Frenchwood and Walton-le-Dale areas, even though the factory was to be closed at year end with everyone laid off.
It used to be said that there was a discernibly higher warranty rate on Oldham-built 400 Series, although it must be said that this was asserted in Walton-le-Dale.
You mention interference, though - I knew an owner driver in Walton-le-Dale who ordered a late Borderer, specifying a 240 Gardner, Fuller and Kirkstall axle. He was advised by friends in the factory to visit it during build, to make sure that Seddon hadn’t tried to force the issue by presenting him with a completed lorry with a Seddon axle!
There was huge resentment of Seddon at Walton-le-Dale — they thought that Seddon made distinctly inferior lorries — to be fair, they were in a different market, I suppose.
Anyway, the press launch of the 400 Series was done from Walton-le-Dale, and if you see any of the launch photos, you’ll notice that the Seddon snails are missing from the n/s/r number plate bracket — that’s because it was fitted with an Atkinson plate, with the bolts bent over. Likewise, a Big A had gone on the grille. In the photos, all you see is the empty bolt holes in the bracket at the back, because the Seddon items were, erm…, mislaid
Cracking explanation 240 so much so I have kicked a new thread off so as not to confuse the Lads and who knows it may generate a whole load new activity about these great British Marques .Cheers Bewick.
Great piece 240 sanity has returned.
Yep interesting stuff,I bet that was one smoky shed first thing in the morning when they fired up all those Gardners to move then further down the line.
yappie:
was it bedfords moto =you see us every where broken down!!!
During my R.E.M.E days, it was “British Engineering Disaster, Fix Or Repair Daily”! 
gnasty gnome:
yappie:
was it bedfords moto =you see us every where broken down!!!During my R.E.M.E days, it was “British Engineering Disaster, Fix Or Repair Daily”!
That’s because the army only used ‘British Bedfords’ whereas the TM with a Detroit and a 13 speed Fuller in it was more like a cab over Pete or a Kenworth 
But I don’t think that even the army would have wanted a Guy Big J with a Gardner in it
Carryfast:
gnasty gnome:
yappie:
was it bedfords moto =you see us every where broken down!!!During my R.E.M.E days, it was “British Engineering Disaster, Fix Or Repair Daily”!
That’s because the army only used ‘British Bedfords’ whereas the TM with a Detroit and a 13 speed Fuller in it was more like a cab over Pete or a Kenworth
Hiya Carryfast I thought it wouldn’t take long until you crawled out of the cheese !! How long have you been let out for or have you escaped ? I’m off to bed as the site is now in free-fall !! Cheers Bewick.
Oh dear,Look out,women and children first,man the lifeboats. 
Dave the Renegade:
Oh dear,Look out,women and children first,man the lifeboats.
OK OK Dave but I think the men in White coats must have grabbed him as he seems to have disappeared off the site !! Dennis.