Saviem's fan club (Part 1)

[pv83]

A nice cuppa just became a lot nicer

Cheers, Patrick

edit; sorry about the half turned pic’s, can’t get them into normal position

[pv83]

Fergie47:

[zb]
anorak:

Fergie47:
Another old Maggie…bit bigger though…

Tatra T138.

google.co.uk/search?q=tatra … tatra+t138

How about this for a sleek trailer?
en.wheelsage.org/tatra/t138/444 … es/jj8ttw/

Think I’ll stick to just posting pictures…

No worries there mate, you’re doing a grand job doing just that!

[saviem]

Couple more for you John…bit over design weight …perhaps…
[/quote]
Evening all,

Well its my “bliss time” , the Isle of Man TT is over, and only the Manx to come, but now the Tour de France cycle race kicks off…and how I regret my aged muscles!..Mark Cavendish wins the first stage, and at last gets a Yellow Jersey to add to those so many other Jerseys in his collection…what an incredible sportsman, (and his modest speech at the finish at Utah Beach today, and his acknowledgement of the sacrifice of so many lives from an earlier generation, to free Europe, really shows the contrast to the over paid apes that our national media puts forward as “sports heroes”)…And for me racing over, (now with a better surface), roads that I know so well…and tomorrow up to Cherburg, again familiar roads for so many of us.

I’m a bit behind the pace, apologies…Pete, (30.06 16), no that is not my Star, that is a psv chassis, and it looks to be leaving Guy`s Cape Town South Africa operation. Sydney Guy had a fascination with the South African market…and in time it would be the death knell of Guy as an independent manufacturer…as it was with the other Wolverhampton manufacturer, Star Motors. But in the late 20s both Star, and Guy sold well in South Africa.

Fergie, superb pictures as ever, but that double bottom Saviem of 30.06.16, well there is a bit of a story to those…

Dipsters right, that was one of many operated by Construction giant SGE, (Societie General d`Enterprises), on the 1970s reconstruction of Nice Airport…right at the end of the Promenade des Anglais, about 7 km from the town centre. SGE, had sprung from Marseille based Grandes Traveaux Publics, founded back in 1891, (amongst whose projects was the construction of the Aswan Dam in Egypt)…and today the Groupe still exists…

The proposal was to construct a new airport and runways , one of 2570 metres length, and one of 2960 metres, on a total site of 300 plus hectares…the only problem…most of the proposed site was the Mediterranean ocean!..Simple, (and so French ), solution…remove one of the foothills from behind Nice, and pop it in the ocean!..and to do so meant some fairly avant garde engineering, because Nice, Cote d`Azur, did not wish for its ambience to be disturbed!

So tunnels were dug, and haul roads constructed to allow the passage of the excavated mountain to pass, un-noticed by the well heeled populous!..and pass it did on a night and day stream of double bottom outfits… wearing both Saviem, and Berliet badges…but what odd balls they really were…

For Berliet the SGE tender presented few problems, already the revised V8 was available, (thanks to the design input from the ex Unic engineers, who simply did not wish to relocate to Turin), sitting under the magnificent KB 24 cab, and a tried and proven hub reduction double drive bogie , it was a simple move to fit the FPOS double reduction front drive axle from the Bourg en Bresse built military side to the TRH 350…a stable and powerful 150, (plus), tonner…and there was Berliets 6x6…

This tender came along prior to the 1975 grouping of Saviem, and Berliet…and already Saviem were making inroads into Berliets traditional “Chantier”, (Construction), market. This with the pure badge engineered, German built MAN 4x4, 6x4, and 6x6 ranges. The intention was to deepen the ranges available, and to that end the potentially available licence to build the Willeme TG range of 6x4, 8x4, and 8x8 heavy haulers was to be evaluated. But already our German and Austrian friends were offering the Austrian built OAF 6x4, and 6x6 vehicles for re badging. And those were the vehicles that were pictured in Fergies post. 6X6 both V10s and V8s with 300 plus hp, ZF boxes, and MAN/OAF back ends. Badged as Saviems, and expected to be the first of many for the French market. These big girls were rated at a nominal 150 tonnes gtw, and gave, (a rather academic), payload advantage over the Berliets of two tonnes!..academic in the terms of 120 tonnes plus payload, (dependent upon material density and weight).

I seem to remember writing a bit about these lorries and their side tipping trailers sometime back…so I will not repeat myself here, but they really were some magnificent vehicles, and did they work, loaded by both Marion, and Plessey Belle Ville produced Poclain face shovels, (25 tonne bucket loads), they all ran at a minimum 150 tonnes gross. Both ourselves and Berliet used this construction project, and our respective equipment “success” to great effect, SGE were great hosts, and the delights of Nice, and nearby Monaco added effect to great marketing opportunities.

But nature sometimes does not like what man does…on the 16. 10. 1979, Nice and Antibes suffered a Tsunami, a wave of 3/3.5 metres which swept 150 metres inland, there was a material slide from the airport construction site of, (an estimated), 10 million sq metres of material into the Var delta, which at the construction site had a 30 degree slope. Underwater cables 120 km away were breached, and over 20 people lost their lives.

Was the Tsunami, created by the material slipping down the slope? Or was it , and the slippage from the site, as a result of a massive undersea landslide? The answer is still the subject of learned debate…

Nice, Cote dAzur Airport is now Frances second largest Airport, serving both the Cote d`Azur, and Monaco…(via a non stop shuttle of ever more exotic Helicopters)! If you have flown into there, or ever do so, as your plane inevitably turns to approach from the seaward side, you may marvel at the 300 plus hectares of flat land projecting out into the sea,

Its a beautiful Airport, flooded with sunlight, and especially in the new 2nd Terminal, but spare a thought for the men, and machines that created that land…and the consequences that befell that wonderful part of France…

And as you walk through the terminal, look for the simple plaque fixed to the wall, celebrating, and remembering the brave men of the United States Army, 597, and 517 Parachute Engineering Company, who de-mined the original Nice Airport and enabled the Liberation of Nice on August 28th 1944, and lost their lives in so doing.

What happened to the equipment…Saviem, or Berliet…well some went, (inevitably), to Africa, some to construction operators in France…but personally I have never seen one of the Berliet 6x6 TRHs after seeing them on that job…but I did see a very rusty OAF/Saviem 6x6 in a yard outside of Avignon back in the 90s…now that would have been worth saving…

Cheerio for now.

[fergie47]

Mix of B/W

[fergie47]

Couple B/W for PV83, he likes the old heavies…

[fergie47]

Couple of Motor-homes …you chose, think I prefer the second one…

[pv83]

Fergie47:
Couple B/W for PV83, he likes the old heavies…

Cheers mate, how much more have you got up your sleeve then

Now, about that third pic in your first post, or I need to get me eyes sorted, but I wasn’t aware that they sold Berliet in Russia too■■?
Or is it a French haulier with some “vague” french accent that remains undiscovered to this day

Imagine those “comfy” campervans queueing up on the N7 towards the sunny south, must have been quite the sight

Now, I did some digging on Sarens, well known crane company from Belgium, however, I wasn’t after their cranes, but more about the lorrie division, they had some proper wagons indeed, and sometimes a well suited “out of the box thinking” solution (as modern day managers would say… ) for problems they encountered…

Cheers, Patrick

[pv83]

Came across this pic as well, belonged to Belgium haulier Belin, odd looking Mack, was it a one off?

[david_miller]

Patrick,
They may well have sold them in Russia too but those ones are from Bulgaria where the State transport ran Berliet for many years.

David

[pv83]

David Miller:
Patrick,
They may well have sold them in Russia too but those ones are from Bulgaria where the State transport ran Berliet for many years.

David

Oh aye? Wasn’t that a bit odd then back in the day? Bulgaria still under a communist government, was there some sort of treatie with France?

Cheers though to shed a light on thing’s David

[saviem]

pv83:

David Miller:
Patrick,
They may well have sold them in Russia too but those ones are from Bulgaria where the State transport ran Berliet for many years.

David

Oh aye? Wasn’t that a bit odd then back in the day? Bulgaria still under a communist government, was there some sort of treatie with France?

Cheers though to shed a light on thing’s David

Evening all, pv, David is right, they are Texim, the Bulgarian state transport operations lorrys. The order was for 550, of the TR250, 12 litre, 250 hp @ 2200 rpm, the Berliet M635 engine, 135 x 140mm, improved cooling over the original TR12 12 litre. 3.8 m wheelbase, fitted with either the FPGR double reduction axle, or for 150 units the heavy duty FPGR 2 R triple reduction unit. Running on either Michelin F20s, or when Clermont Ferrand were on strike either Dunlop, or Kleber 1200x20s. Road speed was a modest 95kph, but up and down hills they took some beating.

The cab was the single sleeper Relax non tilting steel structure, but 350 plus were fitted with the raised pavilion over the sleeper, which gave a roomy double sleeper. Personal experience, was when I did a “favour” Saturday morning job for my friends at Robert Leyx, (later SCALEX, then today, SCALES), from Gennervilliers, in their swb 6x4 TR250…beautiful thing to drive…and ny bosses could not understand how, “a foreigner” could get their business!..ironic…if they knew what I did, I would probably be dismissed…managers do not drive lorries!

The Eastern Bloc deals were purely down to Paul Berliet…they were in the main “commodity swop deals”…commodities such as grain, swopped for manufactured assets like lorries. Little cash changed hands…but the deals were profitable, some greatly so!

When the parc at Venissieux was full of unsold lorries…the International team got busy…

Hungarocamion…Pekaes…super people…they needed the assets…we had them…so what is the deal?

Mooching around Hungarocamions Garage in Budapest I found a virtually unused V10 Steyr tractor…a commodity swop that had gone wrong with Austria! Lovely people those Hungarians…and what a company…and I was quite “smitten” with their RABA lorries…

But pv back in 1969 when that deal was done with Texim for those TR250s, I was only just adapting to coming off the road as a driver, and becoming a lorry salesman for an Atkinson Dealer…but I was there in 1981 when Bulgaria took their 10000 th “Renault” lorry, (a TR305)…

So those TR250s were not too bad at all…

Cheerio for now.

[froggy55]

Fergie47:
Mix of B/W

I drove such a truck for a year, exactly the same in fact, back in 1980-81. Rather noisy with its engine running at 2600 rpm at normal road speed, but reliable.

Thanks Fergie for the usual batch of tasty B&W pics.

[fergie47]

Froggy55:

Fergie47:
Mix of B/W
0

I drove such a truck for a year, exactly the same in fact, back in 1980-81. Rather noisy with its engine running at 2600 rpm at normal road speed, but reliable.

Thanks Fergie for the usual batch of tasty B&W pics.

Hi froggy… haven’t seen you on here for a bit, everything OK with you ?

[fergie47]

pv83:

Fergie47:
Couple B/W for PV83, he likes the old heavies…

Cheers mate, how much more have you got up your sleeve then

Now, about that third pic in your first post, or I need to get me eyes sorted, but I wasn’t aware that they sold Berliet in Russia too■■?
Or is it a French haulier with some “vague” french accent that remains undiscovered to this day

Imagine those “comfy” campervans queueing up on the N7 towards the sunny south, must have been quite the sight

Now, I did some digging on Sarens, well known crane company from Belgium, however, I wasn’t after their cranes, but more about the lorrie division, they had some proper wagons indeed, and sometimes a well suited “out of the box thinking” solution (as modern day managers would say… ) for problems they encountered…

Cheers, Patrick

Great pic’s Patrick…thanks for posting…I do have some more pics of old heavies, just need sorting and time to post…be patient …

You’re right about the heavy haulage fraternity being innovative, plenty of lateral thinking to accommodate unusual and heavy loads…as an apprentice I use to be fascinated with the modifications made to trailers, and sometimes lorries, to adapt them to suit a specific load requirement, and if a trailer couldn’t be modified, then they use to make a bespoke one to fit…

They, along with the circus guys, were the absolute masters of adaption, and we are seeing a lot of their efforts via photos on this thread…like those 4 driven dolly’s you’ve posted… innovation at its best…

I didn’t do a huge amount of low loader / convoy exceptional work, I wish I’d have done more, but did enjoy what I did do…to get a large high and wide machine or boat from the UK to europe without a scratch gave a little more satisfaction that taking a tilt or reffer …as you well know

Where are you going this week, and with what.?.. photo’s please…

[dispatcher]

Fergie 47

Hi Dave you must be talking about Reg Boyce and Joe Appleton in the bottom shop?
heavies kept my interest for 50+ yrs still at it

[fergie47]

DISPATCHER:
Fergie 47

Hi Dave you must be talking about Reg Boyce and Joe Appleton in the bottom shop?
heavies kept my interest for 50+ yrs still at it

Hi Chris…yes, that’s the main two guys…I can remember the Queen Mary and the special 'Hovercraft"
Trailer, plus mods to the old American ones, they were always adapting something…

[david_miller]

Interesting, as always, Saviem.
550 vehicles would have been a good order but I am struggling to think what commodity the Bulgarians had to trade. Beetroot?
You are dead right about the Hungarocamion boys. I once had an alternator problem with the Crusader and went into their Budapest depot hoping for assistance. Not only did they remove the alternator, test it, find a broken connection, fix and replace but a small army of apprentices fell on the lorry, washed it, greased it and gave it a service and then refused any kind of payment. Of course in those days it was logical as we all depended on each other for help when it was needed. Would it were still so.

David

[edtruck]

Good morning PV83,

The pic of the “Mack F900” is on the FLIKR account of Donald De Kloet - on his page he also has a picture of a similar (or the same) Mack as a ballast tractor in the colours of ISTRANS.

Do any of our European colleagues know anything about these Macks - firstly are the genuine Macks from either Allentown or Paris CKD kits or have they been created by one of many specialist companies (Nicolas Tractomas/Willeme etc) to meet an operator’s particular requirements? Whatever happened to them?

Separately take a look at the full pics from Donald- there are a plethora of unusual and rare trucks on it!!

Ed

[froggy55]

Fergie47:

Froggy55:

Fergie47:
Mix of B/W
0

I drove such a truck for a year, exactly the same in fact, back in 1980-81. Rather noisy with its engine running at 2600 rpm at normal road speed, but reliable.

Thanks Fergie for the usual batch of tasty B&W pics.

Hi froggy… haven’t seen you on here for a bit, everything OK with you ?

Thanks for feeling concerned about me! Yes, I’m still alive and browsing through the Forum every morning. I had just not realised I wasn’t logged. I suppose you’re aware the only true French vintage truck magazine has stopped editing since last May? By the way, just a little question: are there many paper magazines about old trucks in the (soon Dis-) United Kingdom?

[harry_gill]

David Miller:
Interesting, as always, Saviem.
550 vehicles would have been a good order but I am struggling to think what commodity the Bulgarians had to trade. Beetroot?
You are dead right about the Hungarocamion boys. I once had an alternator problem with the Crusader and went into their Budapest depot hoping for assistance. Not only did they remove the alternator, test it, find a broken connection, fix and replace but a small army of apprentices fell on the lorry, washed it, greased it and gave it a service and then refused any kind of payment. Of course in those days it was logical as we all depended on each other for help when it was needed. Would it were still so.

David

Hiya,
A lot nearer home David, when en-route to Newport with an elderly AEC Mercury
I called into Rossers (where I had to pass having delivered nearby) I was in need
of a can of water as the old girl was overheating a bit, I also had a burst injector
pipe but I would have got that sorted at Newport but no the fitter who might
have been one of the brothers found a suitable secondhand replacement from a
pile in the corner of the garage and fitted same and no payment was asked for
and my gaffer never mentioned being billed. Aye and I was BRS Blackburn.
thanks harry, long retired.