Apologies if I’ve posted some of the photo’s before, I’ve found away of preventing that in the near future, but it’ll take several months before I can more or less guarantee it wont happen again… 
No need to apologise, Fergie, it’s a revelation to those of us who were Britain-bound throughout our working lives.
Cheers Michel for posting those pic’s, nice ones indeed.
And Fergie… those heavies are really worth looking at 
Cheers, Patrick
Mega, Fergie!
Sent from my Hol-U19 using Tapatalk
Something from more…er…recent times
And no, it’s not about that orange thing in the centre but it’s about that routiers, really nice people, well worth a try if you’re around.
Cheers, Patrick
Fergie47:
Well spotted John…indeed, that lawn is not done by the Fergie, she and the topper are reserved for the paddock… For the lawns there is a 25
year old push mower, held together with old alloy number plates, Gaff tape, cable ties, and the odd bracket or two, an old driven mower with a B&S engine, and a Husqvana ride on…2.5 hrs to cut the lawns, and 2 for the paddock, however, not exactly hard work, and I enjoy it…the price of tranquillity.Today its raining. Mrs F is off to the shops, I’ve finished my chores…so, while the boss is away !!! …
Some B/W heavy haulage. always goes down well, so here are a few…
Hi Fergie,
Any idea where this picture was taken? It looks like a meter gauge De Dion railcar being carried to a local railway line which doesn’t meet with the main network.
Froggy,. Sorry, no more info on that pic …apart from the piece under the the photo, but nothing on location…by coincidence, at the bottom of our lane is an old narrow gauge railway line that has been made into a cycle / walking route that goes some seventy odd kms from Rosporden to Morlaix. At the next village up from us is a little museum, housed in the old station (more a halt really) outside is a small “train” (driven by a 4 cylinder petrol engine and three speed gearbox) and inside a huge collection of photos, some depicting that “train” in the pic, so I guess it was a fairly popular mode of transport back from the '20’s to the early mid fifties… ( the line closed in 1956)… 
my friends father use to catch the train the 6 kms to school every day, they were never charged a fare, and there was no official stopping place, the thing was so slow they’d just jump on / off when it suited them…different pace of life back then…
Fergie 47
hi dave keep the heavies coming
here’s my idea of what you might have liked to pillot round europe
Fergie47:
Froggy,. Sorry, no more info on that pic …apart from the piece under the the photo, but nothing on location…by coincidence, at the bottom of our lane is an old narrow gauge railway line that has been made into a cycle / walking route that goes some seventy odd kms from Rosporden to Morlaix. At the next village up from us is a little museum, housed in the old station (more a halt really) outside is a small “train” (driven by a 4 cylinder petrol engine and three speed gearbox) and inside a huge collection of photos, some depicting that “train” in the pic, so I guess it was a fairly popular mode of transport back from the '20’s to the early mid fifties… ( the line closed in 1956)…
We had the same trains in my area. My Mum used to take it during the war, because of petrol shortage. She sitll tells me that, when the train had to climb steep hilss, passengers were asked to climb off and walk beside the track; they even had time to pick snails! The line was closed in 1948.
To come back to your picture, it appears I was mistaken; if it’s indeed a De Dion Bouton railcar, it’s a standard, and not metric gauge. Concerning the truck, maybe a Latil?
Some B/W heavy haulage. always goes down well, so here are a few…
[/quote]
Evening all,
Fergie, those pictures from 10 June are a veritable treasure trove from the past of one of my favourite heavy hauliers, Dessirier H Zucconi, from Vitry sur Seine… But why does the signwriting say Dessirier only? Simple, Dessierier was founded back in 1912 in the 12th Arrondisment of Paris. Traffic mainly came from the cargo of Péniches, (Seine barges), wood and coal. Favoured vehicles were P5 Latils with the 4.9 litre 35hp engine, with its "Crocodile " bonnet, and radiator behind the engine.
Dessirier modified these by replacing the engine with a 7.4 litre TAR 40 hp unit, which necessitated replacing both the bonnet and radiator. This gave a modest power increase, but pulling power was really little improved with a 13 tonne trailer behind this 5 tonne rated machine. One of these TARH machines is the subject of Fergies first picture transporting what seems to be a mobile crane body fitted to a Renault 35 Tank chassis. The second picture, again a Latil, but in this instance a heavily modified P5, carrying , as Froggy 55 says a Dion- Bouton railcar. Dion Bouton were a major vehicle producer, armaments, aircraft engines, lorries and buses, as well as railcars. Most were for the metre gauge lines, such as the 500kms Saint Brieuc headquartered Chemin de Fer des Cótes du Nord rail network, (1905/1956), that extended throughout Finistaire and Ille et Villain. But as Froggy says that , (OC2 type)? looks to be standard gauge.
Dessirier departed this life suddenly in 1937, but his wife maintained the business, which during the 39/45 period was dramatically curtailed. The company was registered in 1939 as Veuve Dessirier et Cie, and operated 5 Latils, which were converted to Gazogene power with Imbert plants.
1946, the operation was re-located to the 20th Arrondisment, in the Rue de Plaine, and the fleet grew to 7 units. Then came the ex US surplus “heavies”, as shown in picture 3, & 4. This magnificent machine was a White 1064, 6x4, fitted with a ■■■■■■■ HB600 12 litre with a Rootes type Supercharger, (later to be replaced with a 12 litre NH 220). The picture with the rail carriage load is worth some study, because on the Sceta trailer is one of the early RAPT, (aParis underground network), pneumatic tyred units that ran between concrete guide channels , not on steel rails.
There was a policy decision to concentrate on non standard haulage, and along side the remaining Latil, and Renault AHS tractors came the ex US Diamond T 980, and 981s, along with several Rogers M9 24 wheel, (15 inch), 45 ton Sherman tank transport trailers. Fergies pictures show two of these, one with a “home built” wooden cab, the other with the standard steel unit.
And to cement Dessiriers move into heavy haulage, Mme Dessiries daughter married M Humbert Zucconi… A heavy Hauler of some repute…and the company now became Dessirier H Zucconi. Acquisitions followed, a Pacific M26 A1 (non armoured cab), fitted quickly with an HB600 ■■■■■■■ diesel, a “little” 9.5 litre TLM10 Berliet, then 5 of the big bertha TBOs firstly with the straight 15 litre Berliet 240 hp engine, then the turbo charged 320 hp version, and lastly , (perhaps the finest combination), ■■■■■■■ 335 power and Allison Torque converter boxes. But it was not all ultra heavy kit…an ultra low loading height SINPAR modified Renault Golette, a Berliet “Tekel” ultra low loading 6 wheeler, and mobile cranes by Italy`s Ormig, as well as a massive 8x4 Berliet crane carrier.
In 68 came the move to Quai Jules Guesde, at Vitry sur Seine, which is where I first encountered them. The major players in French Heavy Haulage were being brought together in the National interest to serve in the modernisation of the Nations Electricity industry. Firstly Dessirer H Zucconi, and STAG, (Societe Transports Automobiles Gennervilliers), into GIE, (Groupement d`interet economique), to be joined rapidly in 1978 by my friends at Robert Leyx, (later SCALES), and Mayer from Nancy. What equipment they acquired, PRP-Willeme 200 tonne 8x4s, 250 tonne 8x8s, Delattre et Levivier 12, & 16 line modules for up to 500 tonne payloads, then a second, but with 600 tonne potential, followed by the Dessirier H Zucconi Berliet TRH 350TS 150/180 tonners, plus a good few TR280 266 hp, and a couple of our new TR305s.
By the 80s even allowing for the French fiscal legislation of 5 tonnes per metre length, Dessirier acquired a rather long wheelbase R360 6x4 with a torque converter transmission, rated at 35 tonnes gvw, and 180 tonnes gtw, (the latter weight, and more it handled with ease), and still had a good “empty” road speed as well, along with R310s, and even a Major 6x4.
Lovely company, very professional, whose used equipment would end up all over the globe…in the most surprising places!
I’m away for a glass of Bollinger to lubricate my little grey cells…because Ive just seen Fergies STSI pictures…now there is a really interesting groupement…
Cheerio for now.
Well I’m sitting here with the Bollinger bubbles just caressing the sides of a Stourbridge made lead chrystal glass…and contemplating Fergies picture of STSIs ,( Societe Transports Speceaux Industrie), number 102 Pacific M26 A1 , (non armoured cab), ex Bourgey-Montreuil, (a fellow member of STSI), fitted with a Rootes supercharged HB600 ■■■■■■■ 12 litre, driving through a modified Mack TRQ7220 20 speed transmission, (identical to their DM Mack 6x4s) ,lugging that 7.5 metre wide 100 tonne piece on its way to the Refiney at Nengis, Seine et Marne, way back in 1969.
STSI were very proud of that move, and I was once privileged to receive “chapter and verse”, about that particular operation, from the men who planned it, and that particular lorry, at a very enjoyable, and prolonged dinner, one night in Paris. STSI was the ultimate grouping of the French Railways diverse Heavy Haulage road transport operations. These included notable operators such as, Gary de Favies, Paris, Bourgey- Montreuil, Chambry, Farcat, Grenoble, and other operations grouped as SITM, SNTS, SGTS, and TSI. Equipment ranged from Unic V8s, TBO, and GBO Berliets, Pacifics, Diamond Ts, Mack DMs, as well as that most handsome lorry, the Bernard Television, with its Gardner licence MF636 185 hp power, in 6x4 form, but fitted with a SINPAR deep reduction twin speed auxillary gearbox, giving 24 ratios to choose from when coupled to its 18 metre, hydraulic tri axle steering Nicolas from Champs sur Yonne 800mm high semi trailer…(so very similar to look at a DISPATCHERS drawing, ) but without the high cab roof!
But its probably their trailer parc that is the most interesting. Fergies second picture shows a leviathan of 1950s French HEAVY HAULAGE, THE bOURGEY Montreuil double swan neck trailer. Here it is pictured with only one Pacific, and with just the double line 16 wheel dolly behind the tractor. For heavy loads there would be a single line 8 wheel dolly, then the double 16 wheel, supporting the trailer, with at the back the single 8 wheel, plus double 16 wheel bogie, (all the 8 wheel sets were from Rogers M9 45 ton Sherman Tank trailers…oh the back tandem bogie is actually the rear end of a time expired Pacific on its 1400x24s!..200 tonne payload…no problem sir…both the Pacifics had ■■■■■■■ HB power!
Fergies third picture shows a 150 tonne payload being handled by an ex Farcat Pacific, with a Diamond T “pusher” in the early 60s. But the trailer is the real interest. It is an ex WW2 German Gothaer 12 line, 48 wheeled unit, with solid rubber tyres . Farcat owned one, Gary de Favies another. Each could handle 150 tonne payloads, but under S.T.S.I. both were used as modules with a Girder centre at train weights of up to 500 tonnes, utilising a Pacific as a prime mover, and also as pusher, with a Diamond T pusher as well!.
These Gothaer trailers came into French service in 1950, and were still being used 30 years later!. But do not think that all the equipment was “yesterdays vintage”, because there were necks by Nicolas, with multi line modules by Nicolas, Cometto, girders by Savoisienne, as well as those fabricated in the works of Bourgey- Montreuil, (and some of their trailer conversions and works were totally outstanding, and well ahead of the competition).
Incidentally Gary de Favies was the only French Heavy Hauler to name his Pacifics, (Mammouth, and Goliath), the name plates were retained when the new S.T.S.I. livery of silver was applied .
I must go, its past my bedtime, and I very nearly swerved down the side road of that Belgium heavy hauler Transports Jonet, from Charleroi, and their Kenworth 4x4 200 tonners…but that’s another story for another time…and their trailers were really special!!!
Cheerio for now.
Hiya,
Another blast of information there Saviem, cheers, always makes a good read.
This might be one of the old Dessiries H Zucconni wagons then?
Looks like a tight fit
Cheers, Patrick
Some of them indeed were shipped to China for a second life.
At the other end of Willème’s range, here’s a former Liberty WW I truck, reconditioned by Willème during the 1920s, and still used as a yard tractor in the 1960s.
Several times I have seen mention of tractors, …
bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36479610
Two Massey Ferguson tractors, both out of production for decades, are still seen as an essential piece of kit by farmers in dozens of countries around the world. What explains their appeal?
A field in Cambridgeshire in eastern England, the size of 40 football pitches, is carpeted with row upon row of tractors.
With 35,000 registered bidders from more than 100 countries and about 2,000 lots under the hammer at each sale, it’s the biggest monthly second-hand farming machinery auction anywhere.
Buyers travel here from across the globe, many of them from the developing world, looking for machines sourced mainly from the UK, Ireland and Scandinavia.
For many, especially those from Africa, the object of their quest is a Massey Ferguson 135, or its sister the 165. Produced in their hundreds of thousands for a decade starting in the mid-1960s, they were the most popular models of their day, says Bill Pepper, auctioneer and director of Cheffins, the company that runs the sales.
“All these old tractors, some of our buyers refer to them as mechanical donkeys,” he says.
It’s the machine of choice for farmers who have been ploughing with cattle and carrying loads with donkeys, and are looking to upgrade.
“These old Masseys, like the 165 and the 135, they’re so basic but they’re incredibly reliable and they just keep going on and on. Providing they’ve got a bit of fuel, a bit of water and there’s oil in the engine they’ll keep on going, probably until they’re 100 years old,” says Pepper.
"We’ve had examples where they’ve literally been sitting in a hedge for 10, 12 years, people have put a bit of diesel in them, they’ve tow-started them and boof! - off they go - just like that.
“Parts are plentiful and they are easy to fix. They have good, strong, basic mechanics. There’s no electrics involved, so you haven’t got any problems with that, and they just go on and on.”
Find out more
Listen to Follow that Tractor on BBC World Service Radio, on Wednesday and Thursday 15 and 16 June - click here for transmission times or to listen online
The bidders are not only farmers, but also dealers.
Harsha Dharmawardene from Sri Lanka, who has been coming to the auction for 30 years, exported more than 100 Massey Ferguson tractors per year between 1993 and 2003 and once bought 86 in one day - every Massey on sale.
He ships the tractors to Sri Lanka, where he refurbishes them then sells them again to farms as far afield as Tanzania and Nigeria.
What do you look out for when buying a 40-or-50-year-old tractor?
Also among the buyers are Barnabas Sawe and Gideon Okungu from Kenya, who usually take a test drive, examine the engine and paintwork to see if it is original, not refurbished, and check the hours the tractor’s engine has been working - tractors’ lives are measured in hours, not mileage.
A good tractor can transform a village, Sawe says, helping in any number of ways - getting water from a river, for example.
“It transforms a society - it transforms a community,” he says.
Most people who buy from the auction get their initial investment back in two years, by his calculation, and will then be making a profit.
One first-time visitor, Abdi Mohammed, is hoping he’ll soon be able to transform farming in his native Somalia. When he was young in the 1970s and 80s Somalia was a big exporter of bananas, mangoes and papaya, but then it descended into a war from which it is only now emerging.
“When we were young, back home, we saw people using tractors, mainly Ferguson,” he says.
“It’s a new era in Somalia. This is the time to, maybe in a couple of years, go back home and build.”
An old Massey may cost between £2,000 and £2,500. Once paid for, it needs to be dismantled, and loaded into a shipping container for a trip across the ocean.
“African buyers want their containers full,” says packing expert John Mitcham.
So he removes cabs, wheels, engines, axles, windows, doors - and packs them in weights of up to to 26 tonnes per container - that’s usually six to 14 tractors in each one, though following one auction John was able to pack 35 tractors into two containers.
Customers in hot countries don’t need cabins, and some don’t want heavy wheels, and this allows John to squeeze more into a single container.
Not all foreign buyers want a Massey Ferguson, and not all who want a Massey Ferguson want the venerable 135 or 165. The most popular second-hand tractor, however, is the 165, according to Bill Pepper, and Cheffins sells about 20 per month.
One reason, he suggests, may be that people from former British colonies came to study at agricultural colleges in the UK. “And the tractors which they would have had on their farms and also during their tutorials would have been Masseys because they were kind of number one in their day.”
So maybe for some buyers it’s not just the machine’s simplicity and resilience that explains its appeal, but also a dose of nostalgia.
Pictures in the link.
pv83:
Hiya,Another blast of information there Saviem, cheers, always makes a good read.
This might be one of the old Dessiries H Zucconni wagons then?
Looks like a tight fitCheers, Patrick
Evening all,
Thanks for the picture Patrick, that lorry is one of the “genuine” Chinese new ones…that on nuclear power station construction in which the Anglo-French company GEC-Alsthom were involved…that big old Heat exchanger was manufactured in Northern Ireland.
The Chinese order for PRP-Willeme, (Perez et Raimond, Boulevard Gallieni, Villeneuve la Garenne, (who were the French Detroit Diesel/ Allison importer, as well as having the licence to build the Willeme design of lorries), was for 12 units, all to be V16 Detroit powered, with Clark/Allison transmission, as TG300s, 8x8, 300/1000 tonnes capacity. The longer version of the Pelpel built Horizon cab was fitted, (as it was to the Algerian TG300 for SonelGaz.
Certainly 6 were built and delivered, and it would seem that as of 2015, at least two remain in workable condition, 78/15, not a bad innings! Two with a similar specification were delivered to Poland ZTE -Radon, (and Fergie put up a picture of one of them, seemingly retro fitted with a ■■■■■■■ 335, along with their Faun 8x8).
But if I may be permitted perhaps I could “close the circle” on these wonderful beasts, and just write a few words about where that design went…
Sometime ago I wrote a little about the handsome Cottard built Horizon, Willeme cab. But mainly giving credit to its designer René Harvey, who designed for Willeme. Following the demise of Willeme he joined PRP…as he should, for was not the conceptual design of the TG range his own!
But PRP ran into financial problems, and the Willeme licence was up for sale…(and I will not go into the shambles that precluded that licence becoming the property of Renault-Saviem)…First rule of dealing…get in, get it bought!..but a shambles it was…just as on the demise of Foden…the two acquisition teams from Renault Vehicules Industriels, and “our”, new partner Mack…bumped into each other, and sloped off to a Manchester Hotel to discuss who should go first!!!..The answer was supplied by Chuck Pigot whose Paccar team went in and bought the lot!..ah well…
So MOL acquired the licence, along with the services of René Harvey…and if you look at the MOL products from the early 80s you will see just how similar both the engineering, and physical cab design is to the Willeme original…But then a Spanish version of the TG appeared in the orange livery of Sainert SA…how so?
Well we have to go back to Paris, and a family of quite extraordinary engineering talent, the Ponticelli Brothers, from Le Kremlin, in the 13 th Arrondisment , Lazare, (the eldest, who passed away in 2008, at the age of 110 years), Celeste, and Bonfil, and their links with the Spanish operation of Joaquin Bartomeu Ochoe, (Trading as BTO-Trabosa), whose heavy haulage trailers were much supported by Madrid based Sainert SA in its heavy load operations. And of course Sainert worked in close collaboration with the French operator SCTT, (Societie Commercial de Transports TransAtlantiques, from 34 Rue de Listonne, Paris). Where no “Hors Code” outfit could ever visit!..But that BTO-MOL was a one off, (and when shown it still had the MOL Mammouth over the radiator)…but the market potential was proven, and the Ponticelli Brothers knew that, and René Harvey was to join their Franco Spanish Team…
Franco Spanish Team?..enter the very professional team of engineers at Bilbao based Tomas Mintegui Uriguen, (TMU SA), who had been converting, and re-engineering Leyland lorries since the 1950s, followed by spectacular re-engineering of the products of the US Mack concern, as well as "improving those of Pegaso. They would give form to René Harveys creative talent, and deliver perhaps the ultimate expression of the Willeme TG design…the TMU 8x4, and 8x8 heavy haulage tractor.
Long gone was the old Horizon cab, in its place the DAF 2800/3600 cab…but simply on Steroids!..Quoted by one South American lorry journalist as, “a room in the clouds”! Much favoured for heavy haulage work in Venezuela, where several plied their trade way up in the clouds, and perhaps even today two examples may still be working in the deep Iturrigolli quarry in the Lebanon. Gentlemen, if you can find a picture, you will see just what a handsome beast that TMU really was!
Ponticelli also converted the most unlikely Renault lorries into all wheel drive, as well as utilising Harvey`s talents to create the all terrain Ibex, and Irtex vehicles…
Then of course René Harveys ultimate creation from the creative engineers at Champ sur Yonne based Nicolas was the Tractomas, perhaps the ultimate Heavy Hauler ever made…but you can still spot bits of the Willeme TG in its design!
Just a quick thought on" where are they now"…Those big Bertha 8 wheel TGs…
Dessirier H Zucconi, at least one of theirs is in Angola
STAG,at least one in Algeria.
SCALES, a couple in the Ivory Coast.
Mayer, two still for sale…(should be in Shropshire…but the conflagration that would ensue…perhaps not)!
I’m away for a small Bollinger, and the rain is thundering down on my Hay crop…Id rather be in a TG…or perhaps a TMU!
Cheerio for now.
TMUs here:
google.co.uk/search?q=TMU+8 … s2iqqdM%3A
Here’s another, similar curiosity:
forums.dhsdiecast.com/default.as … s&t=137798
Thanks again John for yet another fascinating post.
Would it be possible to write a post about the Norbert Dentressangle history from your viewpoint. I think you had mentioned one time in a post a while back that you would one day contemplate writing about the company. 
I have just discovered I had missed it’s take over by the US XPO group last year.
Regards, Johnny
T.M.U with a crane.
jsutherland:
Thanks again John for yet another fascinating post.I certainly concur
Do you know perchance how many of those Nicolas “super lorries” were built?
First one that comes to mind is the one once owned by Sunters Bros/Econofreight, wonder what happened to it…
Fortunately I was at the Nicolas works some years ago to pick up some modular units.
Little did I know at the time about the history of Nicolas, but the lads where friendly enough to give me a quick tour around, interesting to see and surely there were some “artifacts” of some 40 or 50 odd years ago…
Only thing that changed now for them is that they’re in a group with Scheurle and Kamag these days, I wonder if the German counterparts can appreciate the French approach of how to get labour doneCheers, Patrick
Nicolas is a very old company, which began in farming equipment.
nicolas.fr/fr/entreprise/chronique.html