Poll - should we take action in Syria?

the maoster:
We are demonising Russia and every day the process gets ramped up a bit. The ONLY question we should be asking is why? What is the endgame and who stands to gain what from it? If we answer that we are least part way to understanding the why’s and wherefores of this whole shabby mess.

Russia is acting like they are sheeps and all around them is conspiracy. In the same time acting like aggressor in countries around them just in name of some nonsense to protect Russian people. Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine, same stupid scenario…

I’ll leave this here… click on pic for full image.

the maoster:
I’ll leave this here… click on pic for full image.

We all know very good that all what’s happening is not about protection of poor suffering people, all countries have their " interests" in different regions.

the maoster:
I’ll leave this here… click on pic for full image.

Wait a minute…

Did I just save the world and create world peace? :smiley:

^^^ nobel peace prize solution, bravo :sunglasses:

Just heard an incisive and well reasoned comment on the Syria situation:
With the current crop of “World Leaders” who are, more or less, business people, were in for trouble. the "traditional" politicians were more diplomatic. Diplomatic in the best sense, leaving somewhere for their opponents to go, leaving space for an honourable change of direction. Not the preemptive, shouting, finger pointing, and nailing of flags to masts we have now. If a business turns turtle a business person just shrugs, goes bankrupt, and starts again. Wars aint like that. Domestic politics with posturing and name calling for a domestic audience isn`t the same as International Diplomacy.
Some other gems available on the same programme too.

Juddian:

the maoster:
We are demonising Russia and every day the process gets ramped up a bit. The ONLY question we should be asking is why? What is the endgame and who stands to gain what from it? If we answer that we are least part way to understanding the why’s and wherefores of this whole shabby mess.

And those my fiends are the $64,000 questions, who why what and how much.

Globalists and many of their Socialist allies,who rightly or wrongly perceive Putin as a Nationalist who won’t compromise his country’s national interest in favour of the interests of the globalists. :bulb:

Which then leaves the question how does Putin see an alliance with radical Islamic Iran and Communist China as being consistent with that and in Russia’s national interest ?. :confused:

the maoster:
I’ll leave this here… click on pic for full image.

Given that Turkey is on increasingly good relations with Moscow recently, why couldnt the Ru pipeline go through Turkey? Thatll miss out Iraq as well as Syria.
Since the US is on good terms with Israel, and Jordan is on good terms with Europe, why not have the Us pipe run that way?
Or, via Saudi and Egypt?
I`m certainly not about to say there are no ulterior motives for the big players in the Middle East, of course there are, but surely not this?

P.S. the programme with the best analysis of the situation so far has been the BBC . . .
I hear the sighs, and see the shaking of heads. . . .
BBC R4 News Quiz.
Honest, more sense from Andy Hamilton in a comedy slot than anyone in the whole of the Parliamentary system.

Carryfast:

Juddian:

the maoster:

Globalists and many of their Socialist allies,who rightly or wrongly perceive Putin as a Nationalist who won’t compromise his country’s national interest in favour of the interests of the globalists. :bulb:

Which then leaves the question how does Putin see an alliance with radical Islamic Iran and Communist China as being consistent with that and in Russia’s national interest ?. :confused:

In its most basic form its the old story of my enemy’s enemy, and the EU west (including our leaders) and the USA make no pretence that Russia is anything but a potential enemy.

It makes sense for Russia/China as neighbours to have good relations, and yes to agree to watch each other’s backs.
The Iran situation is interesting, though ironically they might prove to be the most stable middle eastern country in the long run, devil you know and all that.

Franglais:
I`m certainly not about to say there are no ulterior motives for the big players in the Middle East, of course there are, but surely not this?

It’s clear that Russia’s motives in the Middle East have been/are in large part about trying to get a stranglehold over the West’s oil and gas supplies.IE why would a place that’s floating on a sea of oil and gas of its own have such a big interest in the Middle East and the logistics of Middle East-Europe oil and gas movements ?.The only possible reason being that it sees an obvious strategic advantage in that.While China sees it as a matter of competition between its needs v the West’s in that regard.

While can’t really see the advantages of dependency on a pipeline running through all the different potentially hostile variables along the route in the region v the usual conventional direct sea routes.Let alone kicking off WW3 over a proposed pipeline route.While stability of such trade isn’t really viable in the long term without disarming and pacifying the place rather than turning it into an armed to the teeth radical Islamic warzone.

Juddian:

Carryfast:
Which then leaves the question how does Putin see an alliance with radical Islamic Iran and Communist China as being consistent with that and in Russia’s national interest ?. :confused:

In its most basic form its the old story of my enemy’s enemy, and the EU west (including our leaders) and the USA make no pretence that Russia is anything but a potential enemy.

It makes sense for Russia/China as neighbours to have good relations, and yes to agree to watch each other’s backs.
The Iran situation is interesting, though ironically they might prove to be the most stable middle eastern country in the long run, devil you know and all that.

It raises more questions than it answers.

Firstly it’s impossible to see any difference between Iranian Islamic revolutionary Iran and the mad Saudi Wahabbists.Both Russia and the West supposedly being in an ongoing vicious fight with Islamic extremism.While also actually being allied with it in the form of the Iranian revolutionary Islamic and Saudi Wahabbist regimes respectively.

While support of Chinese Communism can only possibly be mutually exclusive with Nationalism.Just ask the average Tibetan Nationalist on that question.IE Globalism doesn’t get much more anti nation state globalist than the ideology of Communism with the jury obviously being out regarding Putin’s real ideological position on that bearing in mind his known loyalty to the old Soviet Union.

Putin sees China as an ally.But the Western globalists also see China as a ‘trading partner’ not a potential enemy.Which in reality means Western cash for Chinese defence spending which they obviously don’t want anyone to view as an issue or a threat to us.

Looking at it as an ideological Nationalist myself something isn’t right.In that we’ve clearly got common ground between Putin,western Globalists and China.In which case the only logical conclusion is that they are all working for the interests of …China.Possibly to the point of deliberately sacrificing Russian and US/NATO forces in a rigged needless conventional war to make China indisputable top dog and global leader obviously with suitable kick backs for those like May and Macron and possibly Putin.

Notice that May and the US and Macron haven’t made any suggestion of action or even said a word against China even though China has made its support of Russia clear on the matter and Putin has accepted that support.While they all seem to be suggesting that whatever action takes place in any US/European v Russian war isn’t actually intended to result in all out nuclear war.Bearing in mind that taking out the Northern Hemisphere by definition means that China starves. :bulb:

Also just to add to the questions.Oh look Orban wants to sell the place out to the Chinese instead of the EU.So where is China getting all this cash to chuck around from and let me guess all this ‘cooperation’ with China supposedly comes without strings attached in the form of bowing down to Chinese interests and eventually take over and rule just like Tibet. :open_mouth:

Sounds like another Globalist not a Nationalist to me.

miniszterelnok.hu/prime-mini … -budapest/

Darkside:
Yes.

To sit by while people are being treated like this is unthinkable.

Cartload of evidence on the web, and there has been evidence of it for years from reliable sources.

The West’s intervention in Syria in the initial stages of the civil war has probably lead to the conflict going on for far longer more people being armed and more death and suffering of the people caught up in it than would have happened if we’d done nothing like we seem to do when it involves most other countries.
But for some reason our politicians suddenly have a big dose of moral outrage when certain countries are involved and they get special treatment to defend the population, which is normally expressed in the form of bombing the crap out of the very people we say we’re there to help and from recent experience ■■■■ the whole thing up and make the World a far more dangerous place.

Looks like they have gone ahead regardless of the TNUK poll result

bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-43762251

The Donald dog barked and the Theresa tail wagged…

muckles:

Darkside:
Yes.

To sit by while people are being treated like this is unthinkable.

Cartload of evidence on the web, and there has been evidence of it for years from reliable sources.

The West’s intervention in Syria in the initial stages of the civil war has probably lead to the conflict going on for far longer more people being armed and more death and suffering of the people caught up in it than would have happened if we’d done nothing like we seem to do when it involves most other countries.
But for some reason our politicians suddenly have a big dose of moral outrage when certain countries are involved and they get special treatment to defend the population, which is normally expressed in the form of bombing the crap out of the very people we say we’re there to help and from recent experience [zb] the whole thing up and make the World a far more dangerous place.

Im afraid youre correct.

EDIT. Darkside youre right that sitting back and doing nothing is an awful thing. But what can we do that will actually IMPROVE the lot of people on the ground? What weve done elsewhere hasn`t done much good, and as Muckles has said, all the good intentions come to nowt.
Ousting nasty dictators, leaving power vacuums, filled by other nasty individuals and groups is no solution.
Having large and expensive armies on the ground is not politically acceptable to any western domestic electorate, hence this strike: running up to the fence and lobbing a couple of big rocks in from a safe distance.

Looks like Trump and Co have completely ignored this thread :open_mouth:

Reef:
The Donald dog barked and the Theresa tail wagged…

As did Macron, :confused:

njl:
Looks like they have gone ahead regardless of the TNUK poll result

bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-43762251

How many people protested for weeks against going to war in Iraq and they were ignored so Blair could play the big man on the World stage, so what make anybody think they’ll listen to public opinion now?

muckles:

njl:
Looks like they have gone ahead regardless of the TNUK poll result

bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-43762251

How many people protested for weeks against going to war in Iraq and they were ignored so Blair could play the big man on the World stage, so what make anybody think they’ll listen to public opinion now?

To play Devils Advocate: In this case it seems that chemical weapons were used, and that is the motivation for this attack at this time. (Whether chemical warfare is actually worse than HE or shrapnel type bombs is debatable of course.) Its not against an imaginary threat to us, but against an ongoing attack on civilians.
In this case again it`s not just a US/UK alliance. It has NATO and other supporters.