hkloss1:
@RobroyIf I were you I would be …
Let me stop you right there mate 'cos you aint me. 
Difference between you and me is I got the result on this that I wanted…You didn’t.
Deal with it and move on.
OH NO not again 
We had a vote it’s done with, like it or not (and i didn’t), it’s called DEMOCRACY. Let’s just see how big mess it turns into, cause I ain’t impressed so far. 
To be fair 2500 is not a representation of a population of 66 million, is it.
hkloss1:
Better late than never, I guess
Not sure about the Bombshell, 
The survey of more than 2,700 members of Unite, Unison and the GMB by YouGov.
2700 people of
1.42m members of Unite
1.3m members of Unison
631,000 members of the GMB.
hkloss1:
Better late than never, I guess
The vote was 2016 .When will you dummy chuckers get over it ffs .
hkloss1:
From what I can see, this what it all boils down to for most Brexiters, yours has to be on top no matter how many warnings you get
Well we know who bought project fear left, right and centre. hkloss1 can you tell us when the recession we were told would happen is going to occur? Can you tell me where the 520,000 job losses were? Can you tell me where the 10% house price crashes happened? We were told all of this would happen following a leave to vote. And where are all the companies leaving the UK especially following commitment recently from Nissan, Toyota, BMW and PSA group that they’re not? Where are the 100,000 bankers who were supposed to be leaving? Why did Apple, Google and Microsoft build new UK HQs if foreign companies are no longer investing?
Franglais:
And here it is the MEMBERs who are voting, not being told what to think by Union leaders or “Newspaper” owners and their editors.
It is absolutely the members being told what to think by newspaper owners. They get all their misinformation from the newspapers and from those who read them and post it on various places on the interwibble.
muckles:
2700 people of
1.42m members of Unite
1.3m members of Unison
631,000 members of the GMB.
Here is a nice little tool.
surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm#one
That sample is more than enough to give a 99% level of confidence with a confidence interval of 3. (Rounding the population to 3m).
So, its good enough to say 99% sure that the membership would be 58% to 64% for another referendum. The figures seem to stand up to purely mathematical analysis. Obviously they arent claiming to be representative of the country as a whole.
The unions are in the pocket of the liberal elite anyway. Disregard everything they say. They’re for mass immigration so they’re certainly not on my side.
blue estate:
My view on the matter
OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT
DITTO
If we do have another referendum perhaps we could also have a re-draw of last nights lottery numbers cos I didn’t win 
A re-match of the world cup semi-final would be good too, although I expect we’d lose again
Carryfast:
SuperMultiBlue:
The way remainers think that a victory in a 2nd ref would be the end of it and no more referendumsThe validity of the 2nd ref would then be treated the same as the first.
Silly snowflakes
^ This.
Bearing in mind that history suggests that the argument between Federalism and Secession is rarely settled peacefully.So choose your weapons Kloss,or Klaus,which ever it is.I’ll go for an FN and a .50 cal machine gun if you can get past the M777 Howitzer which I’m sure our US secessionist allies will manage to get to us somehow.
Reading this brings back images of Dads Army. I can see you and your Mum barricaded in the house, you patrolling the front garden at regular intervals in your tin hat with a cardboard cut out of a machine gun
hkloss1:
From what I can see, this what it all boils down to for most Brexiters, yours has to be on top no matter how many warnings you get, you are willing to be worst off as long as yours comes on top.What’s wrong with second referendum, it’s not about voting until results come right, it’s about making an informed decision on the outcome of the negotiations, deciding whether we are going to be better or worst off.
Are you really that worried that people have realised what a pile of bull c r a p they have been sold by frog face and bo jo, and they’ve had enough of Brexit leading politicians make full of them?
From what I see and hear, the reason many people voted for Brexit wasn’t about economics and many of those haven’t benefited from the economic growth in the UK over the last few decades, in fact if you take wages in real term and things like house prices they’re worse off.
I think this is one of the reasons the Remain lost they were so out of touch with so many, they concentrated on economics and wheeling out the leaders of World to tell us how bad it would be, and got a big ■■■■ off you’re the ■■■■■ who got us here in the first place.
How to Close Great Britain’s Great Divide: The Business of Tacking Inequality, says the richest one percent of the population now owns more than 20 times more wealth than the poorest 20 percent of the population - nearly 13 million people - owns between them, and there is a massive disconnect between people with money and those without.
If there is a second referendum on Stay or Leave then in the mind of many, it would just prove that the establishment will get their way regardless of the will of the people.
However as our politicians are so busy infighting I believe there should be a referendum once a deal is negotiated with the EU, but the questions should be, “Do we accept the deal or leave with no deal?”
I personally am confused by the many Brexiteers, who seem to want our country to do trade deals with the rest of the World, but don’t want a deal with the EU, the large trading block on our doorstep.
As for Bo Jo, I don’t believe his Leave credentials at all, I think he picked the Leave side, believing, like many, that Remain would win and therefore he could use his Leave camp credentials to gain leadership of the Conservative party because he knew that many of the grass route supporters were in the leave camp. The man is hell bent on power not on ideology.
robroy:
Let’s get out asap, if only to get these bad loser whingers like you to finally shut the [zb] up about any re referendum until they get the result that THEY/YOU want
+1
Add in to that that if another referendum does happen and they get the remain vote they want and we stay we’ll be a ■■■■■■■ laughing stock who’ve lost all credibility
SuperMultiBlue:
The validity of the 2nd ref would then be treated the same as the first.
Unfortunately though, the only way a 2nd referendum will be treated the same as the 1st is if the result is the same. If its a remain result then itll be deemed correct and those who voted leave “need to accept the democratic process”
switchlogic:
Juddian:
I’ll happily have another referendum so long as the question is still the same as the first, In or Out, because what the remainers wish for is to weasel word another referendum question to split the Out vote at least two ways.Not true at all though it is? Most remainers would be overjoyed with a another simple in out referendum
Why ? The vote took place in 2016 after years and years of debate about how the EU is failing europe .
Brexit was voted on in 2016 get over it .It cannot be voted multiple times to please a few mardy people .
Conor:
Franglais:
And here it is the MEMBERs who are voting, not being told what to think by Union leaders or “Newspaper” owners and their editors.It is absolutely the members being told what to think by newspaper owners. They get all their misinformation from the newspapers and from those who read them and post it on various places on the interwibble.
Here is an article from 2016. Its the Huff Post. At that time when minds were ripe for influencing, it reports a University Of Loughborough study showing a 82% leaning towards Leave in the UK print media. So, using your argument about the press telling people what to think, its surprising the vote was so close isn`t it? Good to see the UK citizens resisting the spin of the press.
Franglais:
muckles:
2700 people of
1.42m members of Unite
1.3m members of Unison
631,000 members of the GMB.Here is a nice little tool.
surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm#one
That sample is more than enough to give a 99% level of confidence with a confidence interval of 3. (Rounding the population to 3m).
So, its good enough to say 99% sure that the membership would be 58% to 64% for another referendum. The figures seem to stand up to purely mathematical analysis. Obviously they arent claiming to be representative of the country as a whole.
I’m sure it’s statistically correct, but my point was for the OP and the article to claim bombshell result and massive union support from a small sample of only three, all be it the 3 largest, unions, representing about half of all Union members in the UK was a bit over blown, nearly as much as the claim we’d get £350m for the NHS.
PS. I work it out as a sample of less than 0.1% of the members of the 3 unions and less than 0.05% of all union members.
The only thing wrong with voting to leave is why is it taking so long it’s been 2 1/2 years what are they doing and why are we still paying them money
mac12:
The only thing wrong with voting to leave is why is it taking so long it’s been 2 1/2 years what are they doing and why are we still paying them money
Because the EU referendum was never about what the people wanted, Leave or Remain, it was about the Conservative party’s internal war on the EU and has actually only made things worse within the party, so hopefully they’ll rip themselves apart along with the Labour party, who have exactly the same tensions with the Blairtite Neo-liberal New Labour on one side and the hard left on the other.
I did find the ironic seeing a load of people from a mostly Remain demographic standing in a field in Somerset last year chanting for a man who has been anti-EU/EEC since the referendum in 1975. I wonder if they have ever bothered researching why he has held those views?
muckles:
Franglais:
muckles:
2700 people of
1.42m members of Unite
1.3m members of Unison
631,000 members of the GMB.Here is a nice little tool.
surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm#one
That sample is more than enough to give a 99% level of confidence with a confidence interval of 3. (Rounding the population to 3m).
So, its good enough to say 99% sure that the membership would be 58% to 64% for another referendum. The figures seem to stand up to purely mathematical analysis. Obviously they arent claiming to be representative of the country as a whole.I’m sure it’s statistically correct, but my point was for the OP and the article to claim bombshell result and massive union support from a small sample of only three, all be it the 3 largest, unions, representing about half of all Union members in the UK was a bit over blown, nearly as much as the claim we’d get £350m for the NHS.
PS. I work it out as a sample of less than 0.1% of the members of the 3 unions and less than 0.05% of all union members.
The maths is fine IMH (non-expert) O. With large populations a surprisingly small percentage sample may be required for accurate results.
The piece is honest is saying who they asked and what the responses were.
They are not trying to extrapolate to the whole country, or even to other union members.
A “bombshell” ? Being the Gruadian we should be grateful it wasnt a "bums,hell" I spose?
If it was a survey conducted by the leadership of their members, to ask for direction, then isn`t that a responsible way for them to run the union? Not as good as a full vote by all the members, but a sight cheaper, quicker, and easier, and 99% as reliable. Better than the leaders dictating to the rank and file.
Franglais:
muckles:
Franglais:
muckles:
2700 people of
1.42m members of Unite
1.3m members of Unison
631,000 members of the GMB.Here is a nice little tool.
surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm#one
That sample is more than enough to give a 99% level of confidence with a confidence interval of 3. (Rounding the population to 3m).
So, its good enough to say 99% sure that the membership would be 58% to 64% for another referendum. The figures seem to stand up to purely mathematical analysis. Obviously they arent claiming to be representative of the country as a whole.I’m sure it’s statistically correct, but my point was for the OP and the article to claim bombshell result and massive union support from a small sample of only three, all be it the 3 largest, unions, representing about half of all Union members in the UK was a bit over blown, nearly as much as the claim we’d get £350m for the NHS.
PS. I work it out as a sample of less than 0.1% of the members of the 3 unions and less than 0.05% of all union members.
The maths is fine IMH (non-expert) O. With large populations a surprisingly small percentage sample may be required for accurate results.
The piece is honest is saying who they asked and what the responses were.
They are not trying to extrapolate to the whole country, or even to other union members.A “bombshell” ? Being the Gruadian we should be grateful it wasn
t a "bums,hell" I spose?
If it was a survey conducted by the leadership of their members, to ask for direction, then isn`t that a responsible way for them to run the union? Not as good as a full vote by all the members, but a sight cheaper, quicker, and easier, and 99% as reliable. Better than the leaders dictating to the rank and file.
Like I said I don’t doubt the statistical accuracy of the result, but it’s the headlines I take issue with and the OP’s title.
I don’t think a poll of the members of 3 unions, who (as far as I can find out) supported remain in 2016, wanting a second referendum is that much of a Bombshell or shows massive union backing, (although we also can’t assume the other Unions are against the a 2nd referendum either) however it’s the headline that is extrapolating the data over the entire union movement, and the OP who is doing for the entire country, not me?
The bit about the percentage of the sample size was just really a point of interest and not part of my argument.
Personally I think we should have a referendum on the final deal, but not another Leave or Stay, as I said before that will just be seen as vote until we get the result the establishment wanted, but a Deal or No Deal instead. This way we get the whole thing away from the infighting in the Government which is what is causing the stalemate we have at the moment and the people decide, that includes Leavers and Remainers.