Londontrucker123:
Don’t go sole trader, stay away from this option.
If you go Ltd, any problems / damage is your companies liability via your insurance, or if less than you excess, your companies bank account.
If sole trader, you are personally liable, not your Ltd. company. So as an extreme example, go and write off one of your customers shiny new lorries and they could have your house off you.
I know which one I would pick.
Actually you shouldn’t need any insurances maybe public liability Ata push. Damage waver ins is an agency con. They do this to take more money from you the cover usually isn’t worth the paper its written on. Basically with out an olicence you can’t insure anything over 3.5 tonnes.
As for sole trader over limited with ltd its more to do with seperateing you from the company for tax purposes. Ltd doesn’t give you a get out of it free card. Sole trader can he done if you have another income stream ie man and van work or car boot or online trading. Having said that the tax breaks for ltd are a little better than sole trader. As for an accountant find a local one as you’ll find you have more information and be able to get in easier.
“I am not convinced the leeches would get that kind of money (£20ph) from the company requesting a driver.”
Boltonboy, they certainly do fella. It was only 3 months ago I was talking with a contract manager of a large engineering/distribution company and they were paying one agency £32 an hour for drivers, although I don’t know what the circumstances were.
They don’t from my experience, not making double the money anyway.
At a previous job I used to help booking agency workers for the warehouse and we paid agency £10.50hr and the worker got £7. I saw the bills for the other workers and we were paying £130 a day to the agency for C2 and £150 for C1 and the worker got £90 and £105 respectively.
EDIT: We had one C1 Ltd driver who worked for us during the busy months and charged (Day rate) £135 Mon-Fri and £170 iirc Sat-Sun.
I would imagine it depends on how desperate the situation is for a company to get a driver. I’m sure an agency would take advantage of providing a driver at very short notice.
mrginge:
They don’t from my experience, not making double the money anyway.
At a previous job I used to help booking agency workers for the warehouse and we paid agency £10.50hr and the worker got £7. I saw the bills for the other workers and we were paying £130 a day to the agency for C2 and £150 for C1 and the worker got £90 and £105 respectively.
EDIT: We had one C1 Ltd driver who worked for us during the busy months and charged (Day rate) £135 Mon-Fri and £170 iirc Sat-Sun.
I assume that would be plus VAT, yes? That’s an agency scam on it’s own, agency and company do their VAT offsets, so worker doesn’t get benefit, even most Ltd. drivers are not VAT registered as they are below the threshold, so lose out that little bit more on the hourly rate…
I would warn all those thinking of becoming ‘self employed’ to be very, very careful.
HMRC are now clamping down seriously on ‘self employed’ drivers. The only legitimate way of doing it is via Ltd company, paying yourself under your own PAYE but there are loads of issues. Many agencies are now refusing to engage even Ltd Co. drivers unless they become PAYE of the Agency and they may then ask you to opt out of various legal obligations.
For those interested pm me by all means. Warning it is a total minefield involving IR35, Agency Worker Regulations, your role as an ‘Intermediary’. The main thrust at the moment is to put he squeeze on Agencies thus preventing them dealing with you unless you are PAYE with them. Having more than one Agency as your customer makes no difference.
A helpful organisation is QDoS. Our own company is evaluating how to manage these actions.
No proper company would take on a sole trader without his own wagon/o licence and give him regular work. It’s too easy for the guy (or HMRC) to claim he is actually employed and leave the company with his tax bill. Ltd Co through an agency is just dodging employee rights, NI contributions and holiday pay (but you do get an extra £1 on the rate!). If going Ltd Co direct, check your contract T&Cs you are likely to be liable for all damages and losses with the exception of 3rd party road accident claims, but even then you may be liable for the policy excess.
Hades3000:
Can I just ask, as a Ltd company, the services you offer are simply you and your reliability and qualifications as a driver?
Yup, at the moment I am just offering myself and my experience and my reliability. They get the advantages of not paying holiday pay, sick pay, employers NI etc.
boltonboy:
I have a question…surely when I drive for through an agency or direct to a company I am insured through their insurance and not liable for anything. Now if I was a owner driver then I would assume would need liabilities insurance…
Yes you can get public liability insurance for basically being a driver for hire. BUT. if the insurance declines to pay out for any reason then unless you have limited liability, you could be in serious trouble.
Hades3000:
I will be actively exploring the issues raised when I contact the hmrc next week and will post up my findings. Thanks for all the responses
Enjoy, and while you’re doing that, research what would happen if you trashed the clients truck and they start pursuing you or your company for the costs. i.e. Will your insurance cover it? Will your premiums rise? Will your insurance pay out and then pursue you?
Evil, you’ll have me hanging myself before I’ve even picked up the phone
I’ve seen enough in this thread ( at least one person is currently operational as a Ltd) and online, to justify further enquiries and phone calls. If it’s a pain in the arse then I want to find out for myself.
That’s the very reason I’m looking at Ltd, agencies are still pushing umbrella and with the HMRC kicking off I want to know exactly what I’m doing and with more control of my own affairs, I don’t trust umbrella Co one but and I trust the agencies about the same.
EddieMD:
That’s the very reason I’m looking at Ltd, agencies are still pushing umbrella and with the HMRC kicking off I want to know exactly what I’m doing and with more control of my own affairs, I don’t trust umbrella Co one but and I trust the agencies about the same.
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Set up as Ltd and with then being director of your own company youre totally in control of your own affairs. There are certain procedures you have to adhere to and an accountant used to doing ltd is one to speak to. One benefit though is 20% corporation tax as opposed to 20-45% sole traders have to pay…
I just ditched ltd .Low rate vats gone .so if you take say £13 ph over £12 paye .your on a massive loser
No holiday accrued .not security .and all for a few quid a month after you pay the accountant liabilty insurance etc etc.It is not worth it unless you are an owner driver charging a lot more etc.paye unless you are truelly a business .It is just not worth the stress …
Why are you paying liability ins that’s why the customer has insurance I take it your on umbrella then
What stress your runing a business and as such no holiday pay etc is what you signed up for. It’s very simple to run. Pl is only round 250 per year if your terms are right then you would be covered then company your driving fors insurance
alix776:
Why are you paying liability ins that’s why the customer has insurance I take it your on umbrella then
What stress your runing a business and as such no holiday pay etc is what you signed up for. It’s very simple to run. Pl is only round 250 per year if your terms are right then you would be covered then company your driving fors insurance
As a Ltd Co you are introducing a separate and equally sueable legal entity into the mix. Ideally the operators insurance should cover you but for £200 a year its best to be safe. Then there is the fact that if I make a mistake which causes damage to the operators equipment, they can sue me as an Ltd co. Its not so much of a problem for PAYE drivers because all the operator can do to them is fire them but for an LTD Co there are more optons open to them.
As for the VAT point further up and rates of pay. Ltd rates tend to be 1.50 to £2 higher plus flat rate VAT means that a PAYE bloke on £11,50 would mean an LTD on £13 plus VAT would actually be paid £15.60 and keep £14.30.
alix776:
Why are you paying liability ins that’s why the customer has insurance I take it your on umbrella then
What stress your runing a business and as such no holiday pay etc is what you signed up for. It’s very simple to run. Pl is only round 250 per year if your terms are right then you would be covered then company your driving fors insurance
As a Ltd Co you are introducing a separate and equally sueable legal entity into the mix. Ideally the operators insurance should cover you but for £200 a year its best to be safe. Then there is the fact that if I make a mistake which causes damage to the operators equipment, they can sue me as an Ltd co. Its not so much of a problem for PAYE drivers because all the operator can do to them is fire them but for an LTD Co there are more optons open to them.
As for the VAT point further up and rates of pay. Ltd rates tend to be 1.50 to £2 higher plus flat rate VAT means that a PAYE bloke on £11,50 would mean an LTD on £13 plus VAT would actually be paid £15.60 and keep £14.30.
This is currently true of flat rate VAT. All changes at the end of this tax year. New rates is 16.5%. They took the mileage last year, this year its VAT. Not posting the links, just go to hmrc and have a look. Made some good money being limited, but the advantages have now almost been eroded. Guess it was easier for hmrc to do this than investigate us all for possible IR35.
