yourhavingalarf:
edd1974:
I know this will maybe be controversial it’s a barm not a bap bun cobI agree…
It is controversial. It’s a roll.
Barms are flattish circular and softish. Cobs are more spherical and crustier. Rolls are more cylindrical and can be soft or crispy crusted.
All the above is FACT, and not open to any discussion or controversy*.
It’s quite straightforward - HMRC require the employer to be able to confirm that (a) the driver spent a night out (i.e. away from base) and (b) that he incurred additional expense as a consequence of said night out. If they can do this then your Night Out Money (up to the current limit of £26.20) can be paid to you tax-free. You don’t have to provide receipts covering the full amount each and every night.
Dipper_Dave:
HMRC will also accept photos of meals, I’m charging £2 at the moment for photos of my sausag…
Hang on we’ve done this recently I think…If in doubt get creative, HMRC love that.
Here’s one of last week’s meals I chowed down on:
Fancy chowing down on this 
…the cake that is 
Harry Monk:
Conor:
Freight Dog:
HMRC are doing it everywhere. Taxing subsistence to the hilt. They have a new hard on for it.No, HMRC are merely applying the same rules to haulage that they’ve applied to everyone else. If you want someone to blame then look at all the “self employed” drivers and the ■■■■ taking they’ve been doing. They’re the reason the flat VAT rates got changed.
They are two entirely different things though, one is about tax on work done, one is about HMRC attempting to tax subsistence allowances when receipts aren’t always available for the expenses incurred- for example the cleaning of bedding, meals taken where receipts are not provided, the cost of phone calls home etc.
Let’s be frank, guys who do 4 nights out a week most weeks at £25 a lash are not spending that in expenses each night - and in fact, given that employers don’t pay you a penny besides your night-out money, there’s no credible reason why people would be so eager to do them unless it is indeed seen as earnings rather than merely defraying overnight expenses.
So clearly drivers are of the view that it represents earnings for work done rather than expenses.
Conor:
Freight Dog:
HMRC are doing it everywhere. Taxing subsistence to the hilt. They have a new hard on for it.No, HMRC are merely applying the same rules to haulage that they’ve applied to everyone else. If you want someone to blame then look at all the “self employed” drivers and the ■■■■ taking they’ve been doing. They’re the reason the flat VAT rates got changed.
That is not right on both areas. It is as I said. The cull is currently happening in other areas of transport, not just road.
To be fair to you Conor you don’t know I no longer work in road transport. I do work in another area of transport and I do get paid subsistence allowance. We are being hit hard on it. We have to submit receipts for everything. It’s constant photographing everything on iPads and iPhones, and we get random audits every few months by HMRC through the company. Our tax relief on subsistence has shrunk down once this last year and is expected to be removed altogether. The money isn’t spent in the UK.
Harry Monk:
the maoster:
Your Co is correct. We have to produce receipts in order to receive our night out money tax free, no receipt of expenditure = £5 tax on N/O money.The amount on the receipt is incidental btw, it doesn’t have to add up to the amount you receive (mine vary between £3 and £15 per day depending on what I spend or what receipts I can find thrown away at services)
I worked for an exhibition company back in the 1990s and we had to put in a certain value of receipts over the course of the week. This was when McDonalds routinely issued receipts so every so often we helped the staff by clearing up any receipts left on the tables at the MSA.
One day I got called into the office and told “We’ve noticed that you don’t seem to eat anything for days at a time then have fifteen or twenty meals in the space of half an hour”.
Crash dieting/bulimia…I can’t believe they didn’t pack you off to the Priory for treatment!
Rjan:
Let’s be frank, guys who do 4 nights out a week most weeks at £25 a lash are not spending that in expenses each night - and in fact, given that employers don’t pay you a penny besides your night-out money, there’s no credible reason why people would be so eager to do them unless it is indeed seen as earnings rather than merely defraying overnight expenses.So clearly drivers are of the view that it represents earnings for work done rather than expenses.
Then perhaps there shouldn’t be any payment at all for nights out. But then why would anyone do them?
The previous situation worked well for as long as anyone can remember, so why are HMRC getting involved now? If they are short of a bob or two, why don’t they focus their efforts on Amazon, Starbucks, Google etc?
Harry Monk:
Rjan:
Let’s be frank, guys who do 4 nights out a week most weeks at £25 a lash are not spending that in expenses each night - and in fact, given that employers don’t pay you a penny besides your night-out money, there’s no credible reason why people would be so eager to do them unless it is indeed seen as earnings rather than merely defraying overnight expenses.So clearly drivers are of the view that it represents earnings for work done rather than expenses.
Then perhaps there shouldn’t be any payment at all for nights out. But then why would anyone do them?
The previous situation worked well for as long as anyone can remember, so why are HMRC getting involved now? If they are short of a bob or two, why don’t they focus their efforts on Amazon, Starbucks, Google etc?
Did you get a chance to watch the documentary on the Cayman Islands and tax?
Rjan:
Let’s be frank, guys who do 4 nights out a week most weeks at £25 a lash are not spending that in expenses each night
I am
If HMRC wanna get jiggy,with my receipts. .they’ll end up owing me money.
I make no money from nights out.
Freight Dog:
Conor:
Freight Dog:
HMRC are doing it everywhere. Taxing subsistence to the hilt. They have a new hard on for it.No, HMRC are merely applying the same rules to haulage that they’ve applied to everyone else. If you want someone to blame then look at all the “self employed” drivers and the ■■■■ taking they’ve been doing. They’re the reason the flat VAT rates got changed.
That is not right on both areas. It is as I said. The cull is currently happening in other areas of transport, not just road.
Yeah actually it is right. In any other non-truck driving non transport job you have to provide proof of an expense before you can claim subsistence allowance. We are merely being brought into line with everyone else.
Harry Monk:
Rjan:
Let’s be frank, guys who do 4 nights out a week most weeks at £25 a lash are not spending that in expenses each night - and in fact, given that employers don’t pay you a penny besides your night-out money, there’s no credible reason why people would be so eager to do them unless it is indeed seen as earnings rather than merely defraying overnight expenses.So clearly drivers are of the view that it represents earnings for work done rather than expenses.
Then perhaps there shouldn’t be any payment at all for nights out. But then why would anyone do them?
Well you wouldn’t, would you? I guess most guys take it in the round, that if you’re maxing your hours and your overtime, easily pocketing say £12 a night of your £25 expenses (tax-free), and saving yourself the drive to and from work each day, then they’re OK with that.
Personally, with crap basic rates, time-and-half unheard of now, and some firms giving you as little as £20 a night, and your wagon’s not yours, I’d rather just do a fair day’s work and then go home back to creature comforts!
The previous situation worked well for as long as anyone can remember, so why are HMRC getting involved now? If they are short of a bob or two, why don’t they focus their efforts on Amazon, Starbucks, Google etc?
Like someone once said, there’s always them’s that spoils it for everyone else.
Conor:
Freight Dog:
Conor:
Freight Dog:
HMRC are doing it everywhere. Taxing subsistence to the hilt. They have a new hard on for it.No, HMRC are merely applying the same rules to haulage that they’ve applied to everyone else. If you want someone to blame then look at all the “self employed” drivers and the ■■■■ taking they’ve been doing. They’re the reason the flat VAT rates got changed.
That is not right on both areas. It is as I said. The cull is currently happening in other areas of transport, not just road.
Yeah actually it is right. In any other non-truck driving non transport job you have to provide proof of an expense before you can claim subsistence allowance. We are merely being brought into line with everyone else.
When I worked in retail it was receipts for everything. Food, parking, fuel the lot. No receipt no pay.
Rjan:
Harry Monk:
Rjan:
Let’s be frank, guys who do 4 nights out a week most weeks at £25 a lash are not spending that in expenses each night - and in fact, given that employers don’t pay you a penny besides your night-out money, there’s no credible reason why people would be so eager to do them unless it is indeed seen as earnings rather than merely defraying overnight expenses.So clearly drivers are of the view that it represents earnings for work done rather than expenses.
Then perhaps there shouldn’t be any payment at all for nights out. But then why would anyone do them?
Well you wouldn’t, would you? I guess most guys take it in the round, that if you’re maxing your hours and your overtime, easily pocketing say £12 a night of your £25 expenses (tax-free), and saving yourself the drive to and from work each day, then they’re OK with that.
Personally, with crap basic rates, time-and-half unheard of now, and some firms giving you as little as £20 a night, and your wagon’s not yours, I’d rather just do a fair day’s work and then go home back to creature comforts!
The previous situation worked well for as long as anyone can remember, so why are HMRC getting involved now? If they are short of a bob or two, why don’t they focus their efforts on Amazon, Starbucks, Google etc?
Like someone once said, there’s always them’s that spoils it for everyone else.
I have been looking round for a new job and a lot of adverts state 5 nights out guaranteed. Now maybe they have the work or will just keep you out of the yard for sake of it.
Or will they stick £25 on your wages which suits them as they don’t pay tax and ni on it? Driver happy as well as £25 might out is worth £31ish in wages so they “gain”
I think that HMRC is coming after it as so many companies are paying “expenses” in lieu of wages to save the tax and that it has pushed the issue to the front
"
I think that HMRC is coming after it as so many companies are paying “expenses” in lieu of wages to save the tax and that it has pushed the issue to the front
[/quote]
when I was on the vans , (zero hours contract on NMW ) we started whenever the customer wanted you so it could have been day or night but the first £20 of your wages (every shift) was paid as night out money . five shifts = 5x20 = £100 tax free . as the wages were so low anyway we paid very little tax so gaffer got work dome for next to nothing and employee got a net wage that was almost reasonable . just to add that most of them were subsidised with benefits too . if this was/is widespread I can understand the tax man taking a interest.
Conor:
Freight Dog:
Conor:
Freight Dog:
HMRC are doing it everywhere. Taxing subsistence to the hilt. They have a new hard on for it.No, HMRC are merely applying the same rules to haulage that they’ve applied to everyone else. If you want someone to blame then look at all the “self employed” drivers and the ■■■■ taking they’ve been doing. They’re the reason the flat VAT rates got changed.
That is not right on both areas. It is as I said. The cull is currently happening in other areas of transport, not just road.
Yeah actually it is right. In any other non-truck driving non transport job you have to provide proof of an expense before you can claim subsistence allowance. We are merely being brought into line with everyone else.
Your first response inferred everyone else away from road haulage already has to submit receipts for substance allowance. Just not true. I’m not saying some places or sectors you don’t have to submit receipts, however haulage is not the “last man standing”. I can point to at least one other area outside of haulage where recipt submitting was not standard.
You’re perhaps thinking of people paying via tax return. I’ve contracted and used returns, and now work again under PAYE. Declaring income via tax return, you keep receipts. You also file the return as you know.
I have friends working for companies away from the HMRC radar that are Paye, and still have their tax light subsistence allowance intact. They do not have to submit receipts and have never had to submit receipts.
Until last year I didn’t have to submit receipts, Unfortunately I work for of the largest firms in the sector who are being used as a “trial”. Whilst this is in going we have been instructed to submit receipts. It looks like we will have to submit receipts until a second judgement is made on our tax allowance in subsistence. When it is expected to be removed altogether.
As I was saying in my first post, haulage ain’t the only one and isn’t the “last man standing”.
Franglais:
yourhavingalarf:
edd1974:
I know this will maybe be controversial it’s a barm not a bap bun cobI agree…
It is controversial. It’s a roll.
Barms are flattish circular and softish. Cobs are more spherical and crustier. Rolls are more cylindrical and can be soft or crispy crusted.
All the above is FACT, and not open to any discussion or controversy*.
What about bread cakes ?
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Harry Monk:
edd1974:
You ever tired get receipts from chippy and butty vans. For a bacon barm I know this will maybe be controversial it’s a barm not a bap bun cobIt’s called “a bacon batch” here in the Treacle Triangle.
A nice bacon batch yummy. Treacle hmmm treacle town I presume.
So what’s the threshold amount before you get taxed on it, how much is tax free.
to NIGHTLINE,…
I’ve got this tax thing sussed mate for when I’m kipping in my tin box, I’ve claimed for a pair of security guard uniform style jim jams, and a whistle,… no need to claim back on parking, always go first available lay by.
Also claiming for wet wipes for when I wash (now and again) and for Ginsters pies, Mars bars and cans of Coke that I need to live on in my tin box…A tramper living the dream . 
robroy:
So what’s the threshold amount before you get taxed on it, how much is tax free.to NIGHTLINE,…
I’ve got this tax thing sussed mate for when I’m kipping in my tin box, I’ve claimed for a pair of security guard uniform style jim jams, and a whistle,… no need to claim back on parking, always go first available lay by.
Also claiming for wet wipes for when I wash (now and again) and for Ginsters pies, Mars bars and cans of Coke that I need to live on in my tin box…A tramper living the dream .
You are doing it wrong rob, I agree your living the dream but to save on the wet wipes, you could use your cleaning products that you buy to clean the interior of your tin box to occasionally wash. I spray myself down with pink stuff then buff myself to a shine. Just keep your eyes shut though as you spray as it irritates your eyes. By doing this you can pocket an extra £3 per week Your diet sounds healthy enough though.
