Modern lorries

[xichrisxi]

Carryfast:

xichrisxi:
Given that the average age of HGV drivers is 40+ it almost certain that a large proportion of these people that constantly face criticism on here are in fact ‘old school’ drivers who always think they know best because blah blah blah…

I’m almost 40 myself but are still amused at how SOME of the old timers won’t let go of the fact that times and technology have moved on and whilst your possibly right that some newer drivers can’t operate a crash box this is solely because they,unlike you haven’t had training on it,much like the older technophobic drivers who won’t use a sat nav or think cruise control will send them to hurtling to their death so don’t use it.

One thing is for sure,all this old school stuff that constantly gets dragged up on here is history now,it’ll never be brought back so the fact that newer drivers can’t operate it is completely irrelevant…they don’t need to be able to do so!!!

Just because you were around to see it doesn’t make you a better driver for it,learn to accept that not all newbies are inferior to you.

Just because a driver might be over 40 doesn’t mean that they aren’t a career changer with no more link with old school driving requirements than a new generation one.On that note 60-65 mph running speeds and constant mesh boxes by necessity mean’t more anticipation required just to stay alive and enforced a much better approach to hazards than modern day dumbed down 50 mph running and a brake and go novice car driver type driving requirement.While all the bs chip on the shoulder new generation protests won’t change that fact.Most of those protests being based on a justified inferiority complex because they know that the ability to drive a proper truck properly isn’t something that they will ever be able to prove themselves with.Because the job has been deliberately dumbed down to suit the lowest denominator of car drivers and it shows.Almost 40 not really fitting the definition of old school bearing mind that means never having driven a truck before around 2000 when old school vehicles, as we knew them in the 1970’s/80’s,were already effectively history.

Never claimed to be ‘old school’…wouldn’t want to I’m far too young

[andrewg]

Colin_scottish:

HOP 2 IT:
I’m 23 and just passed my class 1 yesterday morning in a daf xf auto. When I did my class 2 I had the choice of auto or 4over4 and I purposely chose 4over4 so I could learn it and it would prepare me some what for trucks Id drive in the future.

I have no idea what a constant mesh or eaton box is

You dont want to thats something that needs left in the olden days.

Not quite. Volvos I Shift is a constant mesh gearbox…

[gingerfold]

These are three of the stand-out examples of bad driving that I witnessed in a car journey of 400 miles round trip a couple of weeks ago. (Three in 400 miles is probably quite good, but unfortunately they were all by artic drivers). These incidents had nothing at all to do with the modernity, or otherwise, of the vehicles, but they were the result of bad, impatient, or inconsiderate driving.

1. M6 southbound through the Cheshire section roadworks, speed limit 50 mph. I was in the middle lane keeping up with the traffic flow, quite a gap behind me but in my mirror I saw a rapidly approaching Volvo FH. Obviously the speed limit didn’t apply to him (or her). At the first opportunity I pulled into the nearside lane as I didn’t want that impatient driver on my back bumper. Sure enough the van he was now behind didn’t move so the Volvo subjected it to tailgating, flashing headlights, and blaring horn. The Volvo was on the Nynas contract operated by Harry Lawson of Broughty Ferry, a company I have known for 40 years and that I have always had respect for.

2. M6 southbound through the roadworks near Corley Services, 50 mph speed limit. I was in the middle lane slowly overtaking an Italian registered artic when just as I passed him he started to speed up and undertook me. Anticipating what his next move would be I eased off and started to create a gap. Sure enough, without any indicator he pulled out in front of me into the middle lane. A less experienced driver than me not aware of what was happening could easily have been in an accident.

3. Slip junction of the M60 where it comes onto the A666 / M61 split. This has always been a tricky junction since it opened 45 years ago when traffic volumes were nothing like they are today. There are 4 converging lanes with traffic crossing, or trying to cross, lanes. I was in the nearside lane of the slip approach from the M60, just coming out of the 50 mph limit when an artic moved out from behind me to take the outer lane. As we got into the 4 lane section he cut across me to get into the nearside lane of the M61, so effectively using all 4 lanes and causing other road users, me included, to either brake or take evasive action. The artic never slowed down at all; an 18 plate white Volvo with a Whistl trailer. This was the most dangerous piece of driving of them all, he could easily have taken out several cars and other LGVs.

Then today I have had a complaint about one of my drivers acting in identical fashion to (1) above. He is a driver with 30 years of experience.

[harry_monk]

Win-Stone:
how many of the current generation could drive something with a crash box…

Me.

Win-Stone:
How many of the current generation could drive something fitted with an Eaton Twin-Splitter?

Me.

[colin_scottish]

AndrewG:

Colin_scottish:

HOP 2 IT:
I’m 23 and just passed my class 1 yesterday morning in a daf xf auto. When I did my class 2 I had the choice of auto or 4over4 and I purposely chose 4over4 so I could learn it and it would prepare me some what for trucks Id drive in the future.

I have no idea what a constant mesh or eaton box is

You dont want to thats something that needs left in the olden days.

Not quite. Volvos I Shift is a constant mesh gearbox…

Being honest andrew i put it to D and drive it dont care about what goes on inside the casing auto or manual.

[muckaway]

I’d rather drive a new auto’ truck but unfortunately I drive a 17 year old Daf with a manual 'box and obsolete Telehoist hook gear. It’s meant to have synchromesh but it changes better to double declutch the down shifts, the screenwash bottle leaks and the throttle cable sticks which means it idles fast unless I kick the bottom of the accelerator pedal.
On the other hand I’m on class 1 money and earning more than I have ever before.
And when VOSA gave me my first ever tug a couple of weeks ago, they found nothing wrong.

[andrew_s]

It’s the so called “driver aids” that dumb the job down-last year I was given a rather nice nearly new dad cf eight wheel grab/tipper-luckily I had some input as to what we bought-manual gearbox was a must due to the place I tip-little bit of rain and sliding around and getting stuck gets boring very quickly
The big problem for me is the sodding traction control-at the tip I need to take a run at the hill in the wet to get up it,once on the hill in the mud you cannot change down or you will stop ,it’s that steep.once the rear wheels start spinning a certain amount the poxy computer cuts the power(even with the diff locks engaged ffs)
I don’t want the power to cut,I can modulate how much wheelspin I have with my right foot very well thank you but computer says no !!
There is a button you press on the dash to “allow more wheel slip” -Yep do that and still cuts power on the sodding hill
Even better coming out the tip as I can’t even spin the wheels on the spinner to flick all the crap out as the tc cuts in at 8 mph and won’t let me clean the wheels!!!
Great design feature on an eight wheel construction chassis…and yes I do know how to drive off road as I do it every day
Our old euro five 11 plate never has any problems
Rant over lol

[olog_hai]

It’s painfully obvious that the standard of many lorry drivers is now no better than the average clown in a car. The reason for that is simple: They are car drivers, and they have somehow fluked their way into passing a couple of extra tests. No more, no less.

Them and their aggressive tailgating, their use of their vehicle as a weapon to intimidate others and their failure to grasp that a lorry should not be driven in the same manner as a car makes them serious accidents waiting to happen. The only reason we don’t see even more multi-hour motorway closures as a result of collisions involving trucks is thanks to those drivers out there who do have the ability to look further than five yards ahead of them and are able to think on behalf of the ever-growing bell-end element.

Then again, it’s hardly a surprise. Combine wages that are generally dreadful with an expectation of 60+ hours per week, a lack of any kind of entrance barrier, and trucks that as good as drive themselves, and it’s hardly a surprise that the job is now infested with bottom-of-the-barrel half-wits who would struggle to drive a greasy stick up a dog’s arse. I’m not against making the job easier by using automated gearboxes, high-power engines, steering that you can turn with one finger and all the anti-collision stuff that has appeared recently, but when it’s combined with all of the above, the results aren’t difficult to work out. That’s what we are seeing now.

gingerfold:
I was in the middle lane slowly overtaking an Italian registered artic when…

Slowly overtaking an LHD artic on a motorway in a car is crazy behaviour. Either get past him quickly and out of his way, or hang back for the same reason until you can scoot past. Doing anything else is asking for trouble.

[robroy]

Olog Hai:
It’s painfully obvious that the standard of many lorry drivers is now no better than the average clown in a car. The reason for that is simple: They are car drivers, and they have somehow fluked their way into passing a couple of extra tests. No more, no less.

Them and their aggressive tailgating, their use of their vehicle as a weapon to intimidate others and their failure to grasp that a lorry should not be driven in the same manner as a car makes them serious accidents waiting to happen. The only reason we don’t see even more multi-hour motorway closures as a result of collisions involving trucks is thanks to those drivers out there who do have the ability to look further than five yards ahead of them and are able to think on behalf of the ever-growing bell-end element.

Then again, it’s hardly a surprise. Combine wages that are generally dreadful with an expectation of 60+ hours per week, a lack of any kind of entrance barrier, and trucks that as good as drive themselves, and it’s hardly a surprise that the job is now infested with bottom-of-the-barrel half-wits who would struggle to drive a greasy stick up a dog’s arse. .

I wasn’t gonna comment on this thread as I’ve made similar points numerous times in the past.
So I’ll just say I agree with everything that Olog Hai says here.
(And I don’t want to go back to manual crash boxes either.)

It’s right that any bellender can get a Class 1 these days, but as we see every day, it does not make them a ‘‘Pro Truck Driver’’ in the true sense, …but it aint just old school types either who are ‘‘proper drivers’’, there are many good young lads, the fact that they know nothing else except car-like trucks, aint their fault.

[punchy_dan]

Olog Hai:
It’s painfully obvious that the standard of many lorry drivers is now no better than the average clown in a car. The reason for that is simple: They are car drivers, and they have somehow fluked their way into passing a couple of extra tests. No more, no less.

Them and their aggressive tailgating, their use of their vehicle as a weapon to intimidate others and their failure to grasp that a lorry should not be driven in the same manner as a car makes them serious accidents waiting to happen. The only reason we don’t see even more multi-hour motorway closures as a result of collisions involving trucks is thanks to those drivers out there who do have the ability to look further than five yards ahead of them and are able to think on behalf of the ever-growing bell-end element.

Then again, it’s hardly a surprise. Combine wages that are generally dreadful with an expectation of 60+ hours per week, a lack of any kind of entrance barrier, and trucks that as good as drive themselves, and it’s hardly a surprise that the job is now infested with bottom-of-the-barrel half-wits who would struggle to drive a greasy stick up a dog’s arse. I’m not against making the job easier by using automated gearboxes, high-power engines, steering that you can turn with one finger and all the anti-collision stuff that has appeared recently, but when it’s combined with all of the above, the results aren’t difficult to work out. That’s what we are seeing now.

gingerfold:
I was in the middle lane slowly overtaking an Italian registered artic when…

Slowly overtaking an LHD artic on a motorway in a car is crazy behaviour. Either get past him quickly and out of his way, or hang back for the same reason until you can scoot past. Doing anything else is asking for trouble.

Being as Gf was in a 50 mph section he couldn’t do much else.

[carryfast]

robroy:
there are many good young lads, the fact that they know nothing else except car-like trucks, aint their fault.

To be fair over reliance on brakes and resulting excessive approach speeds goes back as far as the 1980’s in the form of the brakes to slow gears to go driver instruction methods which were facilitated by the use of synchro boxes.Let alone autos.

Ironically I came across one of these muppets today who was driving a tipper on the approach to the roundabout crossing the M25 at Chertsey.I slowed down gradually and progressively down through the gears to the point of a crawl because my vision was limited by the typical deliberately created central reservation high vegetation.But which,unlike me in a car,the zb could see over combined with a novice boy racer car driver style last of the late brakers approach behind me.The result being an earful of air horns from behind for the crime of being in his way.All because the muppet met a car being driven properly on the approach to a hazard,in the form of a roundabout entry,let alone not being able to get his head around the fact that he had more vision in that situation than a car driver has.

Although the authorities aren’t much better in deliberately blocking vision at roundabout entries to slow traffic on entry while totally over looking the fact that in many cases those with high driving positions aren’t affected by them.What could possibly go wrong when combined with brake and go driving methods.

[juddian]

Post of the week goes to Olog Hai…[deserved applause]

It’s such a crying shame that the majority of decent drivers out there always end up getting tarred with the same brush as the clowns, described so well there , in the eyes of the public.

I just can’t see how dumbing the job ever further down, fitting ever more electronics and driver aids making the job available to ever more clowns, is going to improve things.
Like voting for the same clowns/fool/traitors who are systematically destroying this country each and every election, yet still expecting a different result , is ■■■■■■■ in the wind.

[olog_hai]

robroy:
It’s right that any bellender can get a Class 1 these days, but as we see every day, it does not make them a ‘‘Pro Truck Driver’’ in the true sense…

You and I have both been around a bit and I’m sure we both know that there can be a massive difference between someone who merely holds a Class 1 and someone who is a lorry driver. Sadly, from what I see on my increasingly rare forays onto the road, many in the former category won’t be lorry drivers for as long as they have a hole in their backsides. But what can you do? It’s what many operators want, so they will continue to reap what they sow: Wonderful KPIs generated by things like Microlise and all the other so-called ‘driver management’ products to bandy around while everyone is slapping each other’s back in management meetings, and at the same time a damage bill that dwarfs a small country’s GDP.

There was a lad on here who reckoned that cost of damage at his firm was five figures per week…

[peterm]

ERF-NGC-European:
If you want to remind yourselves of just how much better you drove when you had to ‘plan your drive’ on approach to hazards like roundabouts and lights, just drive your car as if it were a B-series ERF and progressively double de-clutch your way down the box . It’s a sobering reminder!

By the way there’s a lot of bandying about of the phrase ‘crash box’ on this thread: they went out in the '30s - you mean constant-mesh box .

Robert

Yep, notice that a lot.

[mike68]

Olog Hai:

robroy:
It’s right that any bellender can get a Class 1 these days, but as we see every day, it does not make them a ‘‘Pro Truck Driver’’ in the true sense…

You and I have both been around a bit and I’m sure we both know that there can be a massive difference between someone who merely holds a Class 1 and someone who is a lorry driver. Sadly, from what I see on my increasingly rare forays onto the road, many in the former category won’t be lorry drivers for as long as they have a hole in their backsides. But what can you do? It’s what many operators want, so they will continue to reap what they sow: Wonderful KPIs generated by things like Microlise and all the other so-called ‘driver management’ products to bandy around while everyone is slapping each other’s back in management meetings, and at the same time a damage bill that dwarfs a small country’s GDP.

There was a lad on here who reckoned that cost of damage at his firm was five figures per week…

We regularly do £10,000 a week sometimes less usually more, we have had 2 incidents where more than £30,000 worth was done without leaving the depot.

We had a brand new 18 tonne rigid 20 minutes into its first day on the road and a mirror arm ripped off.

We have had a recovery driver saw a branch from a tree of some 12 inches in diameter that was poking out of a radiator

I drive past the premises of the company who repair our trucks and in my 8 years of service there has been not one occasion where I have driven past and one of our vehicles has not been parked in their yard.

One week £750 was spent on suzies and air lines alone.

I often think a lot of the damage is malicious, it has to be nobody is that bad at driving a truck surely not.

[robroy]

mike68:

Olog Hai:

robroy:
It’s right that any bellender can get a Class 1 these days, but as we see every day, it does not make them a ‘‘Pro Truck Driver’’ in the true sense…

You and I have both been around a bit and I’m sure we both know that there can be a massive difference between someone who merely holds a Class 1 and someone who is a lorry driver. Sadly, from what I see on my increasingly rare forays onto the road, many in the former category won’t be lorry drivers for as long as they have a hole in their backsides. But what can you do? It’s what many operators want, so they will continue to reap what they sow: Wonderful KPIs generated by things like Microlise and all the other so-called ‘driver management’ products to bandy around while everyone is slapping each other’s back in management meetings, and at the same time a damage bill that dwarfs a small country’s GDP.

There was a lad on here who reckoned that cost of damage at his firm was five figures per week…

We regularly do £10,000 a week sometimes less usually more, we have had 2 incidents where more than £30,000 worth was done without leaving the depot.

We had a brand new 18 tonne rigid 20 minutes into its first day on the road and a mirror arm ripped off.

We have had a recovery driver saw a branch from a tree of some 12 inches in diameter that was poking out of a radiator

I drive past the premises of the company who repair our trucks and in my 8 years of service there has been not one occasion where I have driven past and one of our vehicles has not been parked in their yard.

One week £750 was spent on suzies and air lines alone.

I often think a lot of the damage is malicious, it has to be nobody is that bad at driving a truck surely not.

I’d be looking at my driver selection criteria mate if it was me.
Also if some of it’s malicious I’d be asking why a driver is so ■■■■■■ off with his co to go that far.
I’m not exactly in love with my lot, but would never go that far.
On a much lower scale I don’t go out of my way to do anything for them either, other than what I’m paid for.
I was approached a few months ago to see if ‘‘my firm’’ would want 4 backloads to Carlisle, I gave them my mate’s no instead, who in return paid for a meal out with my Mrs, my lot would have give me Jack ■■■■.
That’s just an example of a reap what you sow/mildly ■■■■■■ off with his firm driver situation.

So maybe the answer is obvious if you look for it mate…(No offence btw, I aint got a scooby how you treat your drivers.)

[juddian]

I’ve worked at a couple of places where the damage was extensive and regular.
Invariably it’s caused by a handful of incompetents, ironically within days of them starting us drivers have spotted what they are, and we’re usually right the trail of destruction isn’t far off, maybe management are a bit slow.

We drivers have no input whatsoever on the recruitment process, the wreckers in almost every case were not recommended by other drivers, one who caused repeated negligent damage to the specialist equipment was in fact put up by one of the supervisors, talk about own goals , drivers recommended by other drivers tend to be of the better quality cos drivers in good jobs usually want the job to last
For some reason though these wreckers don’t have any more punishment than a chat with one of the managers, just how bad does it have to get before they get rid of them.

Back on the cars there was one clown who had been around all the local outfits, trail of destruction in his wake everywhere he went, he was simply an idiot end of, but they kept taking him on
Small outfit, owner i know as well as two of his really good drivers who i’d worked with before, he’d already asked those two lads about the clown, don’t touch him with a barge pole was the answer, then he asked me when we met up at the rdc site we nearly all worked out of, i told him the same.
His reply, ‘well everyone deserves another chance’, so took the bod on, within three weeks he’d had two brand new decent sized cars written off on the wagon, well there’s at £30k even 20 years ago.
What is it with some gaffers, why the bloody hell ask the opinion of people you presumably respect and then bloody ignore it.

I refused to train one bod up where i worked because literally he could not drive a wagon, terrified the hell out of me on the one day we went out, my then boss got the arse with me and trained him up himself (to prove a point i s’pose), full artic semi trailer car transporter with full size peak (yes you know the sort where the peak car goes out 15ft when you turn a corner), what could possibly go wrong i hear you ask… 6 weeks later stuffing it under a 14’6" bridge at 50mph fully loaded good enough?

One bloke, an older one too who i’d worked with years previously and no better then did no end of damage at the supermarket rdc i worked out of, ie pulling out too tight too soon from the bank, the rear overhang of the fridge he pulled out knocking the fridge beside it over (legs collapsing, fully loaded of course, domino alley) and ripping the rear frame off the one he was pulling.
Another time (there were numerous events from this bloke) there were two lanes at the gatehouse as you drove in, where security lads would come out and check the return seals, one day he flew in smashing the offside front overhang straight into the nsr corner of one in the offside lane narrowly missing crushing the security bod who was checking the seal at the time
This bod really had such a high opinion of himself though.
Nothing done about him, but then the people in charge are only spending some bugger else’s money, not their own.
I used to make no end of overtime out of these wreckers, got on well with the lads in the on site workshops and they’d get me to ferry damaged wagons to the bodyshop and collecting repaired ones to bring back after my normal run.

All these were in the days of manual boxes, just to prove idiots ain’t a new thing, they’ve always been around, and then just as now it’s almost always managements fault for A employing them and B for not getting rid pronto when they prove to be regular wreckers.

What really ■■■■■■ me off though, is that those same manager types today who are frightened of disciplining and getting rid of the regular wreckers then do the classic and imho cowardly ‘‘one size fits all’’ shuffle.
They either issue a memo about damage and costs casting the blame on everyone (when its a small minority of culprits) tarring the vast majority of decent staff with the same brush, or it’s spend £thousands on monitoring equipment, now tell me what difference 20 driver facing cameras or any technical wizardry you could imagine would have made to the supermarket wrecker above, i’m buggered if i know.

None of us are perfect, we can all have a bad day and an event that all goes ■■■■ up, but invariably it’s a small band of tools doing 90% of the damage, and wherever they go they take that attitude with them.

[xichrisxi]

google.co.uk/amp/s/www.gets … 410485.amp

google.co.uk/amp/s/www.stok … 306149.amp

google.co.uk/amp/amp.timein … source=dam

expressandstar.com/news/loc … ridgnorth/

google.co.uk/amp/s/www.spir … river/amp/

google.co.uk/amp/s/www.live … 157963.amp

google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mins … eaths/amp/

Quick google of the latest hgv incidents where the driver was at fault and it resulted in a fatality,all the drivers are experienced drivers…maybe even ‘old school drivers’,Criticise new drivers all you want the facts show that most bad accidents are caused by those allegedly better more experienced drivers.

[tiredandemotional]

gingerfold:
These are three of the stand-out examples of bad driving that I witnessed in a car journey of 400 miles round trip a couple of weeks ago. (Three in 400 miles is probably quite good, but unfortunately they were all by artic drivers). These incidents had nothing at all to do with the modernity, or otherwise, of the vehicles, but they were the result of bad, impatient, or inconsiderate driving.

1. M6 southbound through the Cheshire section roadworks, speed limit 50 mph. I was in the middle lane keeping up with the traffic flow, quite a gap behind me but in my mirror I saw a rapidly approaching Volvo FH. Obviously the speed limit didn’t apply to him (or her). At the first opportunity I pulled into the nearside lane as I didn’t want that impatient driver on my back bumper. Sure enough the van he was now behind didn’t move so the Volvo subjected it to tailgating, flashing headlights, and blaring horn. The Volvo was on the Nynas contract operated by Harry Lawson of Broughty Ferry, a company I have known for 40 years and that I have always had respect for.

2. M6 southbound through the roadworks near Corley Services, 50 mph speed limit. I was in the middle lane slowly overtaking an Italian registered artic when just as I passed him he started to speed up and undertook me. Anticipating what his next move would be I eased off and started to create a gap. Sure enough, without any indicator he pulled out in front of me into the middle lane. A less experienced driver than me not aware of what was happening could easily have been in an accident.

3. Slip junction of the M60 where it comes onto the A666 / M61 split. This has always been a tricky junction since it opened 45 years ago when traffic volumes were nothing like they are today. There are 4 converging lanes with traffic crossing, or trying to cross, lanes. I was in the nearside lane of the slip approach from the M60, just coming out of the 50 mph limit when an artic moved out from behind me to take the outer lane. As we got into the 4 lane section he cut across me to get into the nearside lane of the M61, so effectively using all 4 lanes and causing other road users, me included, to either brake or take evasive action. The artic never slowed down at all; an 18 plate white Volvo with a Whistl trailer. This was the most dangerous piece of driving of them all, he could easily have taken out several cars and other LGVs.

Then today I have had a complaint about one of my drivers acting in identical fashion to (1) above. He is a driver with 30 years of experience.

I wouldn’t be acting on any complaint from the general public without some proper verification of any alleged incident. Rarely a day goes by without one of those idiots taking it upon themselves to be deliberately obstructive or antagonistic towards a truck driver just going about his business. Get cameras fitted if you’re concerned about the behaviour of any of your drivers, there’s haters out there.

[tiredandemotional]

xichrisxi:
HGV driver found guilty of death by careless driving after mistaking 22-year-old lying in the road for a 'roll of carpet' - Surrey Live

google.co.uk/amp/s/www.stok … 306149.amp

google.co.uk/amp/amp.timein … source=dam

expressandstar.com/news/loc … ridgnorth/

google.co.uk/amp/s/www.spir … river/amp/

google.co.uk/amp/s/www.live … 157963.amp

google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mins … eaths/amp/

Quick google of the latest hgv incidents where the driver was at fault and it resulted in a fatality,all the drivers are experienced drivers…maybe even ‘old school drivers’,Criticise new drivers all you want the facts show that most bad accidents are caused by those allegedly better more experienced drivers.

Well when you consider the average age of drivers is mid 50’s or so it could hardly be any other way. I see more than enough poor driving standards from professionals regardless of age.