Main dealer... where do I stand?

[toddy2]

newmercman:
Any lorry full of emissions crap and electronics needs moving on as soon as the warranty is up, not only can they go wrong for fun, as proved in this and many other cases, nobody knows how to fix the [zb]ing things. They just keep throwing parts at it until they stumble across the actual problem, or you get sick of it and trade the lorry in.

I’m in a dilemma at the moment, I have two lorries that have been reliable, they’re still reasonably low mileage, have 200,000kms of warranty left and are worth decent money still. Do I chance it and keep them, risking the inevitable issues, or do I trade them for new? I’d like to think that they will continue to perform well, but if they don’t it could be a costly mistake, on the other hand if I trade them, I’ll never escape the three year replacement cycle and will always have a truck payment.

It seems that they’ve got me by the ■■■■■■■■.

ERF/■■■■■■■ = problem solved

[jarvo]

cav551:
Going to Birmingham on Monday with a semi heavy load seems a strange decision if the vehicle needs a clutch fitting on Tuesday.

From Leicester… so not to bad but long enough for her to get warm.
The clutch hasn’t gone but doesn’t have much left on it, I have to have the rest of the week off with the missis as she is having an operation Tuesday, so figured I was best to get it done before it goes and I am having to have time off anyway so it makes sense to have work done now rather than wait a few weeks clutch go and more down time is needed!

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[newmercman]

cav551:

TiredAndEmotional:

Trickydick:
The fan wiring rubbing though is quite common where it comes out of the rubber support hose, it happens because the wiring from the hose to the block is not supported correctly, a cable tie to support it so the wire is central in the hose and a blob of silicone where it enters the hose lasts well.
Proper repair is fan hub off, cut off support hose clip and slide hose out of the way, then repair wiring refit hose and reinstall fan.
Some dont suffer at all and its all down to the wiring being central in the support hose as it comes out of the hose, slightly one way or the other will result in it rubbing.
We have about 60/70 dafs with this set up and its now std check on inspections, cable tie and silicone literally takes 2 minutes.

The scanias have the same idea but the wiring is properly supported throughout its entire length.

Which begs the question, why couldn’t a main dealer fix this mans’ problem? Rhetorical question…!

Being somewhat out of touch with the rate paid for employees in the trade, I checked and was somewhat surprised to find that it appears that the rate offered to those with 20 years experience or more tends to be less than that offered to those with less time in the trade. This presumably indicates that older fitters are regarded as dinosaurs who wouldn’t understand modern electronic diagnostics hence additional training to make them more versatile is considered pointless. It may be true that the ability to gas or arc weld and to use a lathe etc are scarcely required any longer, being replaced by outsourcing such work. However it seems that the traditional training which was formerly practised and the diagnostic thinking which it engendered, has now been superseded by a reliance on computer program based prompts, without any recourse to the simple principles of how the basic sytem worked before it was controlled by a microprocessor. It would appear that rather than ponder upon what simple factor might have come into play and performing a visual inspection based upon that thought train, there is now an almost total reliance upon fault codes thus often overlooking an obvious physical defect. It would appear that the ability to get the vehicle out of the door as quickly as possible, regardless of haw many times it comes back for another attempt at resolution, is viewed as a greater indication of ability than taking a day longer and to actually fix the problem.

payscale.com/research/UK/Job … ourly_Rate

A very good summary.

The problem with today’s technicians is that the computer only tells them which part to change, it doesn’t tell them why it needs changing and the bad part is often just a symptom of the problem, not the cause.

Most of my repairs on the side of the road have been possible because I knew how the thing that broke was supposed to work, admittedly things were a lot simpler then, but the fundamentals remain the same, you have to know how something should work to know that it’s broken.

[newmercman]

Toddy2:

newmercman:
Any lorry full of emissions crap and electronics needs moving on as soon as the warranty is up, not only can they go wrong for fun, as proved in this and many other cases, nobody knows how to fix the [zb]ing things. They just keep throwing parts at it until they stumble across the actual problem, or you get sick of it and trade the lorry in.

I’m in a dilemma at the moment, I have two lorries that have been reliable, they’re still reasonably low mileage, have 200,000kms of warranty left and are worth decent money still. Do I chance it and keep them, risking the inevitable issues, or do I trade them for new? I’d like to think that they will continue to perform well, but if they don’t it could be a costly mistake, on the other hand if I trade them, I’ll never escape the three year replacement cycle and will always have a truck payment.

It seems that they’ve got me by the ■■■■■■■■.

ERF/■■■■■■■ = problem solved

If you can send me a time machine I’ll get one! Or a 450 143, or an F12, even a 48 Merc or TurboStar.

[trickydick]

TiredAndEmotional:

Trickydick:
The fan wiring rubbing though is quite common where it comes out of the rubber support hose, it happens because the wiring from the hose to the block is not supported correctly, a cable tie to support it so the wire is central in the hose and a blob of silicone where it enters the hose lasts well.
Proper repair is fan hub off, cut off support hose clip and slide hose out of the way, then repair wiring refit hose and reinstall fan.
Some dont suffer at all and its all down to the wiring being central in the support hose as it comes out of the hose, slightly one way or the other will result in it rubbing.
We have about 60/70 dafs with this set up and its now std check on inspections, cable tie and silicone literally takes 2 minutes.

The scanias have the same idea but the wiring is properly supported throughout its entire length.

Which begs the question, why couldn’t a main dealer fix this mans’ problem? Rhetorical question…!

My fault I thought the man was talking about a Daf.

The Daf dealers vary massively, I used to work for one and there were a couple of really clever bods on the wring side of things and they needed to be as Daf wiring is utter pants! its to thin and badly routed all over the truck, then when you get a muppet repairing it they then dont cable tie it up properly so you then have a potential future problem in the waiting, some of the stuff I see thats come back from the dealer is borderline bodgery and I would be ashamed if it was my work, the problem being they have routed it so badly its almost impossible to sort out nicely and you have to bare in mind the wiring is fragile enough as its is never mind if you start tugging it and sorting it out neatly as you may create more issues.

The old saying its got a gate garauntee sprigs to mind

[gingerfold]

I agree about the DAF wiring problems, especially on the older trucks. Two days of rain last week and a 57 plate of ours started playing up, as it usually does when it rains. I have been told that the main wiring loom is routed on the “wrong side” for a right hand drive truck; the loom is on the left so it gets sprayed with standing water from the gutter etc. As the UK is one of DAF’s biggest markets you would expect them to move the wiring loom if this is true. As recently as Saturday morning our mechanic was commenting on the thinness of DAF wiring.

[el_presidente]

jarvo:
Good day all.

Some of you may have read my previous post on servicing, so I opted to take truck to main dealer in my area. It’s a scania R480… Long story short had the egr light and engine malfunction light come on so took it in got it diagnosed, they told me it was the fan… so they changed it and about a grand later said it was fixed, however same lights are on again, only happens when it’s warm really so took it back and now they are saying it’s either the wiring to the fan and the loom or the ecu… problem is why didn’t they say that the first time, and how do I even know my fan was faulty?
What’s your opinion? Has this happened to anyone and should I trust this dealer again?
Staff have been helpful in reception but that’s no good if trucks still bust! Is it a case of process of illumination in cases like this?

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Sounds shockingly similar to an issue I had recently.

Was doing some deliveries up in the lakes; heavy load, engine working hard. Fan came on, suddenly amber emissions light pops up also with 'excess emissions, 50% power in 50 hrs (limp mode basically)

Dropped it into Scania: ‘pointing to the EGR sensor’.

Sensor replaced, light cleared.

Happy as larry for the next few weeks. Then the red light comes in ‘excess emissions, engine power 50%’.

And it was.

Dropped back into scania… ‘pointing to the ECU; but it could be the fan’.

So the conversation went like this:

What’s the problem with the ECU?

Well, it might have been spiked.

By what?

The Fan.

So what’s the plan?

Send the ECU off for repair.

Right…but won’t the fan spike it again?

Yeah, if that’s the fault.

So why don’t we test the fan first?

Because we need a ‘good one’ to test it with.

Well can you get one? Yeah, but we’d need to charge you for a new fan.

Right…so basically you want to repair the ECU, and hope for the best, and if it spikes again, repair the ECU again and then replace the fan? Or, charge me for a replacement fan to test if my fan is faulty?

Yeah.

Fix the ECU and replace the ■■■■■■■ fan.

[el_presidente]

Oh, and i’ve since learnt after a candid conversation with their fitter that the cooling fan is a frequent cause of ECU spikes in ‘older’ model scanias.

And that the starter motors go pop quite easily too.

[shugg]

Toddy2:

newmercman:
Any lorry full of emissions crap and electronics needs moving on as soon as the warranty is up, not only can they go wrong for fun, as proved in this and many other cases, nobody knows how to fix the [zb]ing things. They just keep throwing parts at it until they stumble across the actual problem, or you get sick of it and trade the lorry in.

I’m in a dilemma at the moment, I have two lorries that have been reliable, they’re still reasonably low mileage, have 200,000kms of warranty left and are worth decent money still. Do I chance it and keep them, risking the inevitable issues, or do I trade them for new? I’d like to think that they will continue to perform well, but if they don’t it could be a costly mistake, on the other hand if I trade them, I’ll never escape the three year replacement cycle and will always have a truck payment.

It seems that they’ve got me by the ■■■■■■■■.

ERF/■■■■■■■ = problem solved

Well said that man !!! .

[priest]

i find this thread very interesting and helpful, thanks to all that have contributed to it

[jarvo]

Same here… thank you very much for all your replies.

Well I e had no lights or warning since taping up the wires so it appears fixed [emoji1360][emoji1360][emoji1360] I mentioned it to the dealer that I think I’d found the fault and told him about it and he said he’d have a word with his manager, I also pointed out that the reliance on computers may have cost me a grand a didn’t need to spend esp being a reasonably new owner driver and he said he would see what discount he’d get on my clutch… at the end of the day though it’s got a new fan now so it’s one less thing to worry about I guess, because it seems since being an owner driver every knock bump or creek I’m stressing something is falling off or braking lol.
Thanks again for your help and advice it’s been most useful [emoji1360]

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