I see your point ,the small guy gets screwed …So basically from what you say it is only benefical to larger companies ?
norb:
I see your point ,the small guy gets screwed …So basically from what you say it is only benefical to larger companies ?
If I was offered a profitable cast-iron three-year contract for half a dozen trucks then I would go out and lease them tomorrow, and take the hit on the end-of-contract costs.
As a one-man-band picking up whatever work I can then I would be on a hiding to nothing on a lease deal. I own my truck so I’m quite prepared to give up my Sunday afternoon to go to my yard and go fiddling and fettling. As has been said before, it’s like comparing having a house on a mortgage to renting one.
As ever, there is no definitive answer to the question. It just depends on your personal circumstances.
Harry Monk:
I would bet the farm that no small haulier has ever handed a truck back and been told “That’s fine, you’ve looked after it really well, there’s nothing to pay”.
You’ve lost it then Harry 
, I leased a new Actros off MB and sent it back with nothing to pay. They did quible a tyre but we settled it amicably, but then I did drive the truck meself and treated it like my own 
matamoros:
I am no accountant but as far as I am aware there are different forms of leasing, lease hire and lease purchase, possibly more, the latter is basically the same as hire purchase.
Lease Hire=the truck never belongs to the leasor
Hire Purchase=the buyer pays the all VAT up front with the first monthly installment
Lease Purchase=the leasor buys the vehicle and pays VAT on the monthly payments. Legally the truck needs to be transferred to a third party at the end of the lease to end the contract, usually the title is sold by the lease company to a mate or whoever then bought back again by the purchaser.
weewulliewinkie:
the way i see it, a bought truck is an asset in your company and a lease {payment} would be classed as a liability on your balance sheet
One of the advantages of leasing is that it is an off balance sheet transaction.It is in the P&L as an operating cost so if you are profitable and paying tax you get tax relief on the payment.
Big Joe:
You’ve lost it then Harry
Good job I actually haven’t got a farm then! 
But you are the exception to the rule.
Big Joe:
Hire Purchase=the buyer pays the all VAT up front with the first monthly installment
Yes, that’s what I did, and paid the VAT up front, although you get the VAT back when you submit your first VAT return.
Harry Monk:
norb:
I see your point ,the small guy gets screwed …So basically from what you say it is only benefical to larger companies ?If I was offered a profitable cast-iron three-year contract for half a dozen trucks then I would go out and lease them tomorrow, and take the hit on the end-of-contract costs.
As a one-man-band picking up whatever work I can then I would be on a hiding to nothing on a lease deal. I own my truck so I’m quite prepared to give up my Sunday afternoon to go to my yard and go fiddling and fettling. As has been said before, it’s like comparing having a house on a mortgage to renting one.
As ever, there is no definitive answer to the question. It just depends on your personal circumstances.
I would broadly agree with that and I think you have to be looking at more than half a dozen trucks to be getting the best lease deals offered to bigger fleets as well.
Regardless of the tax accounting benefits I think too many one-man-band type operations end up on some sort of lease deal due to either being under-financed to start with or fear of something expensive going wrong with the truck, which they’re not nearly as protected from financially as they might think with some of the deals.
I think you do need to be able to do your own maintenance to a reasonable level. You certainly don’t need to be taking bearing races out of engines but I think if you can do stuff like exhausts, brake pads and chambers it will make a big difference to expenditure.
Harry Monk:
norb:
Excuse my ignorance ,though after reading the posts i am slightly confused…With damage at the end of life …obviously certain damage can’t be avoided …but what is to stop the owner prior to handing the vehicle back ,getting the repairs done himself ?
Because, no matter what you do, they will be determined to screw a huge end-of lease payment out of you. I would bet the farm that no small haulier has ever handed a truck back and been told “That’s fine, you’ve looked after it really well, there’s nothing to pay”.
Basically, they lease you a three-year-old truck and they want a three-year-old truck back, even when it is six years old.
Leasing works for a mid to large sized haulier who is in a position to take his trade elsewhere, but for a small haulier it’s a non-starter.
Not my experience, leased six trucks now, including new, see above post. Full R&M contract a must.
I have the totally opposite view regarding small hauliers, gives me peace of mind, but not for a new start unless cast iron work and payment.
Harry Monk:
norb:
Excuse my ignorance ,though after reading the posts i am slightly confused…With damage at the end of life …obviously certain damage can’t be avoided …but what is to stop the owner prior to handing the vehicle back ,getting the repairs done himself ?
Because, no matter what you do, they will be determined to screw a huge end-of lease payment out of you. I would bet the farm that no small haulier has ever handed a truck back and been told “That’s fine, you’ve looked after it really well, there’s nothing to pay”.
Basically, they lease you a three-year-old truck and they want a three-year-old truck back, even when it is six years old.
Leasing works for a mid to large sized haulier who is in a position to take his trade elsewhere, but for a small haulier it’s a non-starter.
WeI handed back both a Scania R Series to Scania Rental and Magnum to Essex Renault with no problems what so ever- they were washed cleaned and hada nearly new tyre fitted as one was badly worn but it was fair wear and tear
norb:
I see your point ,the small guy gets screwed …So basically from what you say it is only benefical to larger companies ?
No no no people have to think of it not with emotion it is a cost centre, a tool of the trade and sometimes it is beneficial like when a couple of years back I got paid out on some invoices after i had close my books and had suddenly 140k in the accounts in the wrong tax year.
i think with the replies ive read, i think buying would be a better idea. once your paid out to buy it the truck, ive got maintaince and repairs to do. thanks all 
The replies in favour of leasing are interesting, I bet most people who nay say it have probably never leased and are scared away by other people who have never leased, it all seems like hear say.
I would definitely consider it if I ever got a secure contract.
ibson:
The replies in favour of leasing are interesting, I bet most people who nay say it have probably never leased and are scared away by other people who have never leased, it all seems like hear say.I would definitely consider it if I ever got a secure contract.
when i was told by the dealer to keep a figure in excess of £6000 for the repairs to the truck, before i even had it, that is hardly hearsay now is it? 
shuttlespanker:
ibson:
The replies in favour of leasing are interesting, I bet most people who nay say it have probably never leased and are scared away by other people who have never leased, it all seems like hear say.I would definitely consider it if I ever got a secure contract.
when i was told by the dealer to keep a figure in excess of £6000 for the repairs to the truck, before i even had it, that is hardly hearsay now is it?
That was just seat repairs chunky
shuttlespanker:
ibson:
The replies in favour of leasing are interesting, I bet most people who nay say it have probably never leased and are scared away by other people who have never leased, it all seems like hear say.I would definitely consider it if I ever got a secure contract.
when i was told by the dealer to keep a figure in excess of £6000 for the repairs to the truck, before i even had it, that is hardly hearsay now is it?
That does seem very expensive, did you buy a truck from that dealer instead?
no, decided to go elsewhere for a truck and bought it
the lease was for a brand new truck, and they said it was going to cost at least £6000 at the end of 3 years, how can they know that before the truck had even been put on the road?
They can’t obviously, it might have been a bit of bull ■■■■, but I can see why it put you off.
ibson:
They can’t obviously, it might have been a bit of bull [zb], but I can see why it put you off.
from the sales manager?
why would he want to put people off by telling them a load of crap?
shuttlespanker:
ibson:
They can’t obviously, it might have been a bit of bull [zb], but I can see why it put you off.from the sales manager?
why would he want to put people off by telling them a load of crap?
Maybe he’s heard about Spankys adventures in MDF land 
limeyphil:
there’s one thing you could do. set up two ltd companies.
one for your o’licence and invoicing.
the other owns the lease on the truck. if they play at silly buggers at the end of the lease, then dissolve it.
Harry Monk:
The trouble with that is that they want to see a company’s O licence before they will lease a truck to them.
From what I recall cant you have AB LTD ( owner of vehicles~) trading as CD Haulage (debit / credit co)? CD haulage goes bust, change O licence from AB LTD trading as CD Haulage to AB Ltd trading as EF Logistics ?
shuttlespanker:
ibson:
The replies in favour of leasing are interesting, I bet most people who nay say it have probably never leased and are scared away by other people who have never leased, it all seems like hear say.I would definitely consider it if I ever got a secure contract.
when i was told by the dealer to keep a figure in excess of £6000 for the repairs to the truck, before i even had it, that is hardly hearsay now is it?
think it depends who you lease from ? that does not exist if you are direct…