GREAT NEWS

albion:
FWIW, I have a friend with a Masters in Biology, worked in her chosen field for 35 years+ and chairs a national panel albeit not in immunology or epidemiology. I also have a friend who is director of one of the big pharma, albeit not vaccines. Neither of them have any hesitation in taking the vaccine so I’m taking my lead from them.

I was going to wait to see what Karen on Facebook thinks . I think she will be a much more reliable source as well as all her friends who have never sat a GCSE in Biology , Physics or Chemistry - surely they will have much more in the way of knowledge than your mates . lol :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

As I posted before the Swiss regulators refused to approve any of the vaccines due to concerns over lack of information.
Now this article seems to cast doubt on the Pfizer vaccine testing.

2020news.de/en/dr-wodarg-and-dr … -petition/

Also mentions the lack of reliability of the PCR tests.

Do you think the UK regulators have gone too early?

muckles:
As I posted before the Swiss regulators refused to approve any of the vaccines due to concerns over lack of information.
Now this article seems to cast doubt on the Pfizer vaccine testing.

2020news.de/en/dr-wodarg-and-dr … -petition/

Also mentions the lack of reliability of the PCR tests.

Do you think the UK regulators have gone too early?

From your link:
“The mRNA vaccines from BioNTech/Pfizer contain polyethylene glycol (PEG). 70% of people develop antibodies against this substance – this means that many people can develop allergic, potentially fatal reactions to the vaccination.”
And from your previous posts:

muckles:

yourhavingalarf:
I’m in…

I’m rolling my sleeve up already.

I’ll add it to my collection of MMR, hepatitis, meningitis, tetanus, diptheria, yellow fever, typhoid, polio and pnuemonia jabs. All very nasty diseases from which I’ve never suffered.

Tested on 50,000 of which 50% were placebo subjects, no ill effects from 25,000 is good enough for me.

It took many years for those vaccines to be developed, tested and approved, on average it takes 10 years. Not only is it the first ever Coronavirus vaccine to be approved, its the first time an mRNA vaccine has been approved for human use and all in 10 months from starting work in it.

You haven`t argued any issues with the 25,000 doses given without apparent harm?

And here is Dr Yeadon again:
politifact.com/factchecks/2 … pandemic-/
arguing in Oct that the pandemic is over and there is no need for a vaccine.

P.S. Who are 2020news.de?

Franglais:

muckles:
As I posted before the Swiss regulators refused to approve any of the vaccines due to concerns over lack of information.
Now this article seems to cast doubt on the Pfizer vaccine testing.

2020news.de/en/dr-wodarg-and-dr … -petition/

Also mentions the lack of reliability of the PCR tests.

Do you think the UK regulators have gone too early?

From your link:
“The mRNA vaccines from BioNTech/Pfizer contain polyethylene glycol (PEG). 70% of people develop antibodies against this substance – this means that many people can develop allergic, potentially fatal reactions to the vaccination.”
And from your previous posts:

muckles:

yourhavingalarf:
I’m in…

I’m rolling my sleeve up already.

I’ll add it to my collection of MMR, hepatitis, meningitis, tetanus, diptheria, yellow fever, typhoid, polio and pnuemonia jabs. All very nasty diseases from which I’ve never suffered.

Tested on 50,000 of which 50% were placebo subjects, no ill effects from 25,000 is good enough for me.

It took many years for those vaccines to be developed, tested and approved, on average it takes 10 years. Not only is it the first ever Coronavirus vaccine to be approved, its the first time an mRNA vaccine has been approved for human use and all in 10 months from starting work in it.

You haven`t argued any issues with the 25,000 doses given without apparent harm?

And here is Dr Yeadon again:
politifact.com/factchecks/2 … pandemic-/
arguing in Oct that the pandemic is over and there is no need for a vaccine.

P.S. Who are 2020news.de?

I know Dr Michael Yeadon is an opponent of much of what’s been going on, but he has the qualifications, so why is his opinion any less valid than those who agree with the government position, (especially as government scientists stood in front of diagrams, which were proved to be out of date and superseded, to tell us why we needed yet another lockdown) ? From what I’ve heard Michael Yeadon, hasn’t said we don’t need a vaccine, but we don’t need to vaccinate the entire population.

As for the pandemic being over, maybe there is justification to doubt his claim due to the definition of a pandemic being affecting a a large proportion of the population over many countries, but is it still an epidemic in the UK or now and endemic disease?

The justification by politifacts (from what I’ve seen fact checkers are often linked to various media and political organisations, so anything they write has to be checked) was that there was a rise in confirmed cases in the UK, the rest of their case relied on getting quotes from somebody who disagrees with Dr Yeadon, so one opinion vs another.
They showed a massive increase in confirmed cases, but didn’t mention the massive increase in tests carried out. On September 7 when their graph show cases start to rise the UK carried out 188,000 tests, on November 17th that was 364,000.
Positive cases per tests is probably a better measure and one used by the ONS, Early September positive tests were about 1.5% of all tests mid November it was around 7.7%. but there is a rise in many respiratory diseases in winter months, does that mean we have an epidemic every year?

According to the King College/Zoe study (who have millions of people reporting each day and also carry out their own testing, similar to the ONS does studies) at the maximum point of the recent spike in cases, they estimated 600,000 people had Covid on the 5th November, that’s less than 1% of the population, what percentage of the population being infected would you suggest would be an epidemic?

The vaccine might have been tested on 25,000 people, it is going to be rolled out quickly to many millions, but there hasn’t been time to study if there are long term side effects, while maybe for those at extreme risk from Covid a vaccine might be worth the risk, is it worth the risk for those who are more than likely have no problem getting over Covid, that’s if they know they have it in the first place.

It looks like we arent going to be able to wipe this disease out,judging by the amount of you not prepared to take it,imagine if everyone did this in the past,we would still have smallpox ,measles,rubella and all the other nasty di6

This vaccine is being allowed under emergency legislation (Human Medicine regulations 2012) which authorises unlicenced medication to be used under such circs as a pandemic, which handily also confers onto Pfizer the maker of the vaccine, and the NHS administering said vaccine, indemnity from being sued (by victims presumably?) should any problems arise in the future…source The Independent online.
Does anyone wonder why this is the case, if it was so wonderful it would be licenced and emergency legislation rules need not apply, allowing future lawsuits from whomever may be affected or who might sue on their behalf.

My tuppence for anyone considering getting vaccinated, is to avoid these mRNA designs and if you really must have a vaccine to opt for the Oxford version, which so far is a traditional (real) vaccine, when it is released if ‘they’ allow it to be released that is.

muckles:

Franglais:

muckles:
As I posted before the Swiss regulators refused to approve any of the vaccines due to concerns over lack of information.
Now this article seems to cast doubt on the Pfizer vaccine testing.

2020news.de/en/dr-wodarg-and-dr … -petition/

Also mentions the lack of reliability of the PCR tests.

Do you think the UK regulators have gone too early?

From your link:
“The mRNA vaccines from BioNTech/Pfizer contain polyethylene glycol (PEG). 70% of people develop antibodies against this substance – this means that many people can develop allergic, potentially fatal reactions to the vaccination.”
And from your previous posts:

muckles:

yourhavingalarf:
I’m in…

I’m rolling my sleeve up already.

I’ll add it to my collection of MMR, hepatitis, meningitis, tetanus, diptheria, yellow fever, typhoid, polio and pnuemonia jabs. All very nasty diseases from which I’ve never suffered.

Tested on 50,000 of which 50% were placebo subjects, no ill effects from 25,000 is good enough for me.

It took many years for those vaccines to be developed, tested and approved, on average it takes 10 years. Not only is it the first ever Coronavirus vaccine to be approved, its the first time an mRNA vaccine has been approved for human use and all in 10 months from starting work in it.

You haven`t argued any issues with the 25,000 doses given without apparent harm?

And here is Dr Yeadon again:
politifact.com/factchecks/2 … pandemic-/
arguing in Oct that the pandemic is over and there is no need for a vaccine.

P.S. Who are 2020news.de?

I know Dr Michael Yeadon is an opponent of much of what’s been going on, but he has the qualifications, so why is his opinion any less valid than those who agree with the government position, (especially as government scientists stood in front of diagrams, which were proved to be out of date and superseded, to tell us why we needed yet another lockdown) ? From what I’ve heard Michael Yeadon, hasn’t said we don’t need a vaccine, but we don’t need to vaccinate the entire population.

As for the pandemic being over, maybe there is justification to doubt his claim due to the definition of a pandemic being affecting a a large proportion of the population over many countries, but is it still an epidemic in the UK or now and endemic disease?

The justification by politifacts (from what I’ve seen fact checkers are often linked to various media and political organisations, so anything they write has to be checked) was that there was a rise in confirmed cases in the UK, the rest of their case relied on getting quotes from somebody who disagrees with Dr Yeadon, so one opinion vs another.
They showed a massive increase in confirmed cases, but didn’t mention the massive increase in tests carried out. On September 7 when their graph show cases start to rise the UK carried out 188,000 tests, on November 17th that was 364,000.
Positive cases per tests is probably a better measure and one used by the ONS, Early September positive tests were about 1.5% of all tests mid November it was around 7.7%. but there is a rise in many respiratory diseases in winter months, does that mean we have an epidemic every year?

According to the King College/Zoe study (who have millions of people reporting each day and also carry out their own testing, similar to the ONS does studies) at the maximum point of the recent spike in cases, they estimated 600,000 people had Covid on the 5th November, that’s less than 1% of the population, what percentage of the population being infected would you suggest would be an epidemic?

The vaccine might have been tested on 25,000 people, it is going to be rolled out quickly to many millions, but there hasn’t been time to study if there are long term side effects, while maybe for those at extreme risk from Covid a vaccine might be worth the risk, is it worth the risk for those who are more than likely have no problem getting over Covid, that’s if they know they have it in the first place.

This Yeadon writing the epidemic is over and no vaccine is needed:
lockdownsceptics.org/what-sage-got-wrong/
Politifact is from the Miami Herald, winner of a couple of Pullitzer prizes.
25,000 vaccinations with no significant issues?
C19 would give about 250 deaths and untold long term effects.
No long term test of vaccines? True. But what the long term effects of C19? That is still a novel disease. There are reports of “long Covid”, and of scarring of lungs of those “recovered”. C9 has effects more widespread than just death. 1% (or whatever) mortality is not 1% effect.
And drugs are, as we now see, “designed”. It isnt the "■■■■ it and see" experimentation of earlier times. Effects and possible side effects can be estimated early on. It certainly isnt a perfect science but the speed of development is a result of increasing knowledge. Not a sign of cutting corners.

Juddian:
My tuppence for anyone considering getting vaccinated, is to avoid these mRNA designs and if you really must have a vaccine to opt for the Oxford version, which so far is a traditional (real) vaccine, when it is released if ‘they’ allow it to be released that is.

I think I read on the BBC that this vaccine will be for the high risk people and because of the conditions it needs to be stored by the time the rest of us are to be vaccinated the Oxford one is what we get.

Franglais:
This Yeadon writing the epidemic is over and no vaccine is needed:
lockdownsceptics.org/what-sage-got-wrong/

You do not vaccinate people who aren’t at risk from a disease. You also don’t set about planning to vaccinate millions of fit and healthy people with a vaccine that hasn’t been extensively tested on human subjects.

I would completely understand and would consider accepting early use of a vaccine only if done with fully informed consent and, even then, only if offered to the most vulnerable in our community.

I wouldn’t say that’s equates to him saying “not needing a vaccine.”

Franglais:
25,000 vaccinations with no significant issues?
C19 would give about 250 deaths and untold long term effects.

I know they say that have tested on all age demographics, but do we know the health profile of those 25,000 people, did any have co-morbidities?

Franglais:
No long term test of vaccines? True. But what the long term effects of C19? That is still a novel disease.

There are reports of “long Covid”, and of scarring of lungs of those “recovered”. C9 has effects more widespread than just death. 1% (or whatever) mortality is not 1% effect.

Like much of this, media hysteria has made this seem much worse than it is. The recent highly publicised study that said they found hidden damage was only 10 people, there are longer term research that say there is evidence of the lungs recovering and King College London has done a study of Long Covid, using reports from its Covid Zoe app. Most people are back to normal in 11 days or under and the vast majority of those reporting long term symptoms have recovered in under 12 weeks. They have also identified thos emostly likely to experience long Covid, They are generally, older (more common in the over 70’s), female, overweight and have Asthma

Franglais:
And drugs are, as we now see, “designed”. It isn`t the “■■■■ it and see” experimentation of earlier times. Effects and possible side effects can be estimated early on.

It certainly isn`t a perfect science but the speed of development is a result of increasing knowledge. Not a sign of cutting corners.

I’m sure drug research has improved greatly, but still the average for a vaccine is 10 years, the recent Ebola vaccine took something like 5 years and that was recent. Even with the massive push for development for this 10 months seems very quick for approval for mass use, especially for a vaccine that uses a method never approved for human use before.

swissinfo.ch/eng/society/in … s/46196598
The Swiss regulators weren’t happy to approve any of the vaccines for what seems like very similar concerns to that one’s I’ve raised.

The regulator said important data on safety, efficacy and quality are still missing.

“We lack data on the effectiveness of the clinical trials and on the important subgroups that participated in these large studies,”

For example, Swissmedic wants to know about the pre-existing illnesses of the people who took part in these studies.

muckles:

Franglais:
This Yeadon writing the epidemic is over and no vaccine is needed:
lockdownsceptics.org/what-sage-got-wrong/

You do not vaccinate people who aren’t at risk from a disease. You also don’t set about planning to vaccinate millions of fit and healthy people with a vaccine that hasn’t been extensively tested on human subjects.

I would completely understand and would consider accepting early use of a vaccine only if done with fully informed consent and, even then, only if offered to the most vulnerable in our community.

I wouldn’t say that’s equates to him saying “not needing a vaccine.”

Franglais:
25,000 vaccinations with no significant issues?
C19 would give about 250 deaths and untold long term effects.

I know they say that have tested on all age demographics, but do we know the health profile of those 25,000 people, did any have co-morbidities?

Franglais:
No long term test of vaccines? True. But what the long term effects of C19? That is still a novel disease.

There are reports of “long Covid”, and of scarring of lungs of those “recovered”. C9 has effects more widespread than just death. 1% (or whatever) mortality is not 1% effect.

Like much of this, media hysteria has made this seem much worse than it is. The recent highly publicised study that said they found hidden damage was only 10 people, there are longer term research that say there is evidence of the lungs recovering and King College London has done a study of Long Covid, using reports from its Covid Zoe app. Most people are back to normal in 11 days or under and the vast majority of those reporting long term symptoms have recovered in under 12 weeks. They have also identified thos emostly likely to experience long Covid, They are generally, older (more common in the over 70’s), female, overweight and have Asthma

Franglais:
And drugs are, as we now see, “designed”. It isn`t the “■■■■ it and see” experimentation of earlier times. Effects and possible side effects can be estimated early on.

It certainly isn`t a perfect science but the speed of development is a result of increasing knowledge. Not a sign of cutting corners.

I’m sure drug research has improved greatly, but still the average for a vaccine is 10 years, the recent Ebola vaccine took something like 5 years and that was recent. Even with the massive push for development for this 10 months seems very quick for approval for mass use, especially for a vaccine that uses a method never approved for human use before.

swissinfo.ch/eng/society/in … s/46196598
The Swiss regulators weren’t happy to approve any of the vaccines for what seems like very similar concerns to that one’s I’ve raised.

The regulator said important data on safety, efficacy and quality are still missing.

“We lack data on the effectiveness of the clinical trials and on the important subgroups that participated in these large studies,”

For example, Swissmedic wants to know about the pre-existing illnesses of the people who took part in these studies.

Immediately before your first quotes Yeadon writes
“No Need For a Vaccine
There is absolutely no need for vaccines to extinguish the pandemic. I’ve never heard such nonsense talked about vaccines”
Yeadon claims to be an empiricist so how do his statements stack against the current ONS figures?
ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation … cember2020
Yeadon
W"here we do regrettably see outbreaks, these will develop much more slowly than in the spring because the virus is finding it ever harder to find the next person to infect."
Not well.
Later looking at his graphs
“The main point from these graphs is the trend line. The rising number of cases and deaths is proceeding 4x more slowly now than in the spring. This doesn’t prove that we are nearing the end state, but this observation is consistent with that concept”
The rise is surely less steep than in Feb because of the way we now live? If we were still shaking hands, not wearing masks and moving around more then wouldn`t the rise be similar? He is blatantly comparing very different scenarios.

Ten people with lung damage due C19? I think you`re misreading something here?
The BBC reported a study of ten people with known problems to show a new technique.
bbc.com/news/health-55017301
From The Lancet:
“78 of 100 patients in an observational cohort study who had recovered from COVID-19 had abnormal findings on cardiovascular MRI (median of 71 days after diagnosis) and 36 of those reported dyspnoea and unusual fatigue.”
thelancet.com/journals/lani … 73-3099(2030701-5/fulltext
And the BMJ
“Young, low risk patients with ongoing symptoms of covid-19 had signs of damage to multiple organs four months after initially being infected, a preprint study has suggested.”
bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4470
Initial data from 201 patients suggest that almost 70% had impairments in one or more organs four months after their initial symptoms of SARS-CoV-2 infection

Tim Harford deals with the studies quite well
bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000py6r
One of the contributors is Dr Margaret McCartney (a GP) who is a strong advocate of evidence based medicine.

The Swiss have not approved any vaccines…YET. They are still looking at the data. Maybe they will approve later, maybe not.

At my…

Secondary school (so I’d have been about 12 or 13) I seem to remember getting some sort of vaccination against something or other. Each class stood in a line with their sleeves rolled up and then we all got jabbed by some doctor with what appeared (and my fading memory isn’t helping here) to be an air operated needle thingy that was placed on my upper arm and bam, vaccinated or what ever it was.

Why can’t they use that device?

yourhavingalarf:
At my…

Secondary school (so I’d have been about 12 or 13) I seem to remember getting some sort of vaccination against something or other. Each class stood in a line with their sleeves rolled up and then we all got jabbed by some doctor with what appeared (and my fading memory isn’t helping here) to be an air operated needle thingy that was placed on my upper arm and bam, vaccinated or what ever it was.

Why can’t they use that device?

Too awkward to manipulate:
at minus 70deg Celcius the nurse would need to wear thick mittens.

:smiley:

yourhavingalarf:
At my…

Secondary school (so I’d have been about 12 or 13) I seem to remember getting some sort of vaccination against something or other. Each class stood in a line with their sleeves rolled up and then we all got jabbed by some doctor with what appeared (and my fading memory isn’t helping here) to be an air operated needle thingy that was placed on my upper arm and bam, vaccinated or what ever it was.

Why can’t they use that device?

TB jab.

I take the view that it doesn’t matter what I think. I’m so far towards the back of the queue that given the limited availability of the doses, by the time I get towards the top of the list any problems with it will have already become apparent.

Worrying/stressing about matters that you cannot possibly influence is both pointless and counter productive.

Anyone who didn’t see it should consider watching the brilliant/weird serialised drama ‘Utopia’, there’s a new US version and a 5 or 6 year old UK version, either will do though i personally found the UK version more enjoyable.

Both can be found on either Prime or Netflix (can’t recall which), almost a modern day version of 1984, worth watching and thinking about.

msgyorkie:
TB jab.

Thank…

You.

ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTIC … HTML&src=0

quote from the tender request for ‘MHRA Buyer Organisation’

quote

‘’ II.1.4)Short description:

The MHRA urgently seeks an Artificial Intelligence (AI) software tool to process the expected high volume of Covid-19 vaccine Adverse Drug Reaction (ADRs) and ensure that no details from the ADRs’ reaction text are missed.‘’

''Strictly necessary — it is not possible to retrofit the MHRA’s legacy systems to handle the volume of ADRs that will be generated by a Covid-19 vaccine. Therefore, if the MHRA does not implement the AI tool, it will be unable to process these ADRs effectively. This will hinder its ability to rapidly identify any potential safety issues with the Covid-19 vaccine and represents a direct threat to patient life and public health.

Reasons of extreme urgency — the MHRA recognises that its planned procurement process for the SafetyConnect programme, including the AI tool, would not have concluded by vaccine launch. Leading to a inability to effectively monitor adverse reactions to a Covid-19 vaccine.

Events unforeseeable — the Covid-19 crisis is novel and developments in the search of a Covid-19 vaccine have not followed any predictable pattern so far.‘’

Juddian:
https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:506291-2020:TEXT:EN:HTML&src=0

Yet your…

Signature here on this website mocks the government, calling it inept and bumbling.

But this particular government department is according to you, bang on the money.

Can’t have it both ways Juddian.

^^^ whoosh

Also brandnewtube.com/watch/vital-in … zSxKM.html again think of the serial ‘Utopia’ :bulb:

Juddian:
again think of the serial ‘Utopia’ :bulb:

Harry…

Potter stories are made up as well.