Anyone been asked for a shed load of info by the Germans regarding the Minimum Wage?
We filled in the online form that asked for drivers names and DoBs at the start of the year, thinking that should be it for 6 months. Yesterday we get a letter asking for: contract of employment, pay slips, proof of payment and timesheets for each delivery. In German Failure to produce is a 30,000 euro fine ( good luck with that ).
Rang the RHA and they brightly told me that Iām the first. Always wanted to be a test case
Anyone else had one of these letters? Any suggestions beyond filing under B?
Thanks Dave, I di put a search in, but those didnāt come up.
We followed RHA advice and filled in the form covering all our drivers. I hadnāt come across the requirement for the driver to carry payslips/contract of employment.
On the letter from the Zollamt, there is also a requirement to prove that you have paid the driver, which obviously can only be done retrospectively and seems a little bizarre.
Itās a lot of work, especially for a firm that pays well over NMW + extras.
albion:
Thanks Dave, I di put a search in, but those didnāt come up.
We followed RHA advice and filled in the form covering all our drivers. I hadnāt come across the requirement for the driver to carry payslips/contract of employment.
On the letter from the Zollamt, there is also a requirement to prove that you have paid the driver, which obviously can only be done retrospectively and seems a little bizarre.
Itās a lot of work, especially for a firm that pays well over NMW + extras.
Will let you know what the RHA say on this.
Hi albion,
Itāll be good to know what the RHA say on this because they have access to their contacts within similar German haulage organisations.
I will never understand why the germany customs only control drivers from other countrys,ā¦but no one make a controle if all drivers in germany get the minimum wageā¦
If they really believe all companys in germany would pay the minimum wage they are really stupidā¦
Silverwolve:
I will never understand why the germany customs only control drivers from other countrys,ā¦but no one make a controle if all drivers in germany get the minimum wageā¦
If they really believe all companys in germany would pay the minimum wage they are really stupidā¦
One thing Germans are not, is stupid, however, itās trivial for them to monitor wages for their own drivers (and any other industry) through the tax system, with no need to stop anyone.
They donāt have access to any other countryās tax records though.
BeardedBlunder:
One thing Germans are not, is stupid, however, itās trivial for them to monitor wages for their own drivers (and any other industry) through the tax system, with no need to stop anyone.
They donāt have access to any other countryās tax records though.
Do you honestly believe that everyone gets paid through the books? If so you are living in a different world to everyone else. That is why they ought to be controlling all nationalities including their own.
BeardedBlunder:
One thing Germans are not, is stupid, however, itās trivial for them to monitor wages for their own drivers (and any other industry) through the tax system, with no need to stop anyone.
They donāt have access to any other countryās tax records though.
Do you honestly believe that everyone gets paid through the books? If so you are living in a different world to everyone else. That is why they ought to be controlling all nationalities including their own.
Do you honestly believe the German equivalent of HMRC arenāt chasing such dodgers at least as hard as HMRC would be?
If so you are living in a different world to everyone else.
albion:
The RHA are speaking with the DfT on this, that should be entertaining, though i wouldnāt necessarily expect an answer immediately!
Iām not sure of how much help the DfT could be in this, because itās already a statute law in Germany.
Wouldnāt it would be more beneficial for their membership if the RHA sought clarifications, advice and assistance from the German tax authorities, or an equivalent German haulierās association?
Silverwolve:
I will never understand why the germany customs only control drivers from other countrys,ā¦but no one make a controle if all drivers in germany get the minimum wageā¦
If they really believe all companys in germany would pay the minimum wage they are really stupidā¦
Believe me they do,at least 3 road side checks from the Zoll in a year. 2 DIN4 sides to fill out,how much you earn, how Long you been working for the Company, how many hours a month etc, the do raise an eyebrow when they ask for ID and i produce my British Passport āah you are englishā āNOā " but you have english passport" " either British or welsh mate or i am going to sue you for insulting behavoir"
and payslips/time sheets, with no requirement to send in proof of payment.
Then this has literally just been released:
Today the European Commission (EC) officially launched infringement proceedings against Germany on the application of the German minimum wage.
Given the above, one might assume that the current process will be postponed. However, infringement procedures take time so members should not aim to provoke the German authorities, especially if contacted for details of employment practices.
albion:
Today the European Commission (EC) officially launched infringement proceedings against Germany on the application of the German minimum wage.
Heard this on the news here last night.
Seems the German government has a couple of weeks to present their case to the Euro bods.
Germany is taking the position that as no European minimum wage as yet exists, then each member state should be able to independently set its own minimum wage.
That this has come before the European parliament is due to our eastern European chums squealing like pigs and calling foul when their little lambs are plying their trade in the Fatherland and are now required to be paid the āoutrageousā sum of 8.50ā¬/hour.
The German transport minister suspended the minimum wage regulation for TRANSIT traffic several weeks ago, as a gesture of goodwill to the neighbours but asserts that drivers loading or tipping in Germany will be subject to the minimum wage.
More power to their elbow, I say.
Iām all for fair competition but the present situation is anything but.
Bogdan and his chums pottering about Germany and the rest of western Europe for weeks on end without any prospect of returning home as
subbies at a fraction of the wages of the local workforce under the auspices of EU freedom of movement which is being ruthlessly exploited by the big boys of European haulage who are all getting fat on the profits, is a situation that cannot be allowed to continue
^^^^ totally agree. We (the British) as good little Europeans continue to sit back and watch as our manufacturing and transport industries are decimated.
It seems the Commission are more bothered by the paperwork than the actual minimum wage requirement. Obviously Waberers, Hartl & co are more bothered about the wage aspect. Quite ironic that expensive Austria is listed as one of the complainants, along with Hungary (where the Austrians actually get their drivers) and Poland to be expected. As there have been a good number of protests in Germany aboiut wage dumping hopefully this may not be an end. The Germans will get backing from the French as theyāre considering similar legislation. Not expecting Cameron to introduce it here thoā¦
the maoster:
^^^^ totally agree. We (the British) as good little Europeans continue to sit back and watch as our manufacturing and transport industries are decimated.
Yep our politicians talk a lot about fair playing fields for British workers, and doing what is best for us but donāt seem keen on introducing the same things that others western European countries have done to control cheap labour from other countries. Just look at cabotage controls, it was France, the Netherlands and Sweden that stopped it being scrapped completly, the UK government and trade bodies seemed strangely silent on the subject. No doubt more interested is helping thier friends who run big business and want cheap labour than looking after the general population.
Inselaffe:
Heard this on the news here last night.
More power to their elbow, I say.
Iām broadly in agreement with you Inselaffe, but there has to be a less onerous way to do this than to request in German a copy of the Employment Contract, payslips, timesheets and proof of payment to the driver every time you either deliver or collect in Germany.
Fortunately, most of my work takes place in France/Italy /Spain and only occasionally Germany, but for anyone who runs there regularly, itās a lot of work to comply.
I hear though, as Iāve even been speaking to the DfT now, that France are going to be doing the same thing. I swear I spend more time shuffling bits of paper round (pointlessly) than I do actually running the trucks.
Failure to produce is a 30,000 euro fine ( good luck with that ).
Wouldnāt it would be more beneficial for their membership if the RHA sought clarifications, advice and assistance from the German tax authorities, or an equivalent German haulierās association?
