AndrewG:
Good friend of mine is TM for Saxon haulage in Norfolk and he’ll be the first to back this up. All he wants is good experienced drivers who can actually drive/ secure a load properly and do the odd minor repair…very difficult to get hold of…
So in other words he expects the cream of the crop who have done their learning and made their mistakes elsewhere and is not prepared to invest anything to develop his own workforce.
I hope he ends up with nothing but idiots who don’t do as they’re told and damage loads and trucks.
As his website doesn’t show an address and the last news item is dated July 2010 does it still exist?.
If there are vacancies that cannot be filled - there is a shortage.
If there are a glut of unemployed drivers - there isn’t a shortage.
What happens to a driver once they are unemployed? - They’ll move on to another job in another industry, or join an agency, or get a full time job.
The gap (or lack of one) between a driver finishing at one yard and starting at the next full time job - will be LOW if there is a genuine shortage, and “so long they leave the industry” if there is a glut of drivers/shortage of jobs.
Each country in the country is going to have it’s own profile.
I suggest that those counties where there has long been a shortage of JOBS and a glut of drivers - might now be the very ones seeing the worm turn the most, in that “a lot of drivers have already moved out” whilst jobs come onto the market because of the new post-brexit economy that is coming like it or not.
Trump in America seems to want to pursue a protectionist policy. This should be good for interstate truckers, but won’t be so hot for the domestic drivers. This would represent a reversal of a long-term difference between the “quality of life” that these two sides of trucking represent of course.
In this country? - Expect less and less foreign trucks hogging the laybys as time goes on this year. Expect also less UK trucks NEEDING laybys for anything beyond a 45 break as well… Tramping itself may be on the verge of going into decline, as the entire trucking economy changes from here on in.
SHYTOT:
There is a shortage of good quality drivers regardless of pay rates & conditions
Good friend of mine is TM for Saxon haulage in Norfolk and he’ll be the first to back this up. All he wants is good experienced drivers who can actually drive/ secure a load properly and do the odd minor repair…very difficult to get hold of…
Would that be John or are we talking about a different Saxon haulage?
AndrewG:
Good friend of mine is TM for Saxon haulage in Norfolk and he’ll be the first to back this up. All he wants is good experienced drivers who can actually drive/ secure a load properly and do the odd minor repair…very difficult to get hold of…
So in other words he expects the cream of the crop who have done their learning and made their mistakes elsewhere and is not prepared to invest anything to develop his own workforce.
I hope he ends up with nothing but idiots who don’t do as they’re told and damage loads and trucks.
All his drivers are experienced guys and he pays accordingly. Drivers are vetted for this experience to weed out the idiots. Yes…all he wants is the cream of the crop and imo theres absolutely nothing wrong in that, if i was recruiting for drivers would want the same. Trucks are top spec Volvo’s and the pay is good…
AndrewG:
Good friend of mine is TM for Saxon haulage in Norfolk and he’ll be the first to back this up. All he wants is good experienced drivers who can actually drive/ secure a load properly and do the odd minor repair…very difficult to get hold of…
So in other words he expects the cream of the crop who have done their learning and made their mistakes elsewhere and is not prepared to invest anything to develop his own workforce.
I hope he ends up with nothing but idiots who don’t do as they’re told and damage loads and trucks.
All his drivers are experienced guys and he pays accordingly. Drivers are vetted for this experience to weed out the idiots. Yes…all he wants is the cream of the crop and imo theres absolutely nothing wrong in that, if i was recruiting for drivers would want the same. Trucks are top spec Volvo’s and the pay is good…
I’m not seeing the relevance in any of that. It is, yet again, an element of the haulage industry that will not spend a penny on the development of its own staff. Little wonder there is (apparently) a driver shortage.
Harry Monk:
1). Wages for HGV drivers have fallen by around 30% in real terms over the last ten years.
Yep , I earned more an hour as a recycling truck driver on local council 12 years ago than I do now
2). There is a shortage of HGV drivers.
This is known as “the juxtaposition of incongruities”.
The trouble with employers is it seems they just don’t get it,you can have your HGV and have experience and employers still in this day and age do not want to pay decent wages,they come up with all types of excuses the best being the usual we can’t afford it,maybe they can or not who knows but experienced drivers will not work for crap wages,employers still think they can get drivers for around £7.50 an hour judging by some of the ads you see (maybe they do with our european cousins)we need someone like the guy who passed away bob crow,my bruv is on £63,000 per annum now as a train operator for the underground because of him,i know we would never get that but i dont think its unreasonable that we should be on £30,000+ for all hgv drivers,still just my opinion
Those yards who are both not prepared to train drivers AND not prepared to pay the going rate - really need to clear the air by going bust asap.
The same applies to agencies. I’ve always predicted that it will be the insurance companies who indirectly bring down the duff agencies - by refusing cover or charging too much for it - when it comes to agencies employing the no speke enough English/9 points OK/Ex Con/Hidden Medical History drivers who shouldn’t be let anywhere near a truck, but get waved through “Because they’re the one’s who’ll work for £7.50ph or 60-84 hour weeks”.
The “Great Dying” begins once we do Brexit properly, and EU drivers working here start asking for more money to compensate them for the fact that the pound has fallen enough for their money being sent home to be worth a lot less than it used to be. That’s less EU drivers available. Then there’s the EU drivers like Waeberers coming over here, who don’t get paid so much for their wares any more. That’s less trucks bringing stuff here on the cheap. Then there’s the huge and still rising expense of things like CPC/Licence/Commuting/ and anything the ■■■■■■■■ remainers want to make up as an “additional fi fo fum fee” to make our lives a misery, but instead just drives more and more truckers into the more lucrative lines of work, because we’re not all one-trick ponies ya know!
SHYTOT:
There is a shortage of good quality drivers regardless of pay rates & conditions
Good friend of mine is TM for Saxon haulage in Norfolk and he’ll be the first to back this up. All he wants is good experienced drivers who can actually drive/ secure a load properly and do the odd minor repair…very difficult to get hold of…
Would that be John or are we talking about a different Saxon haulage?
I think that one is out in the Sheringham?? area and called Saxon Motors…correct me if im wrong
Evil8Beezle:
This forum is for the universally challenged Harry. Not university challenge!
…
Love it.
My take on the ‘Driver shortage’ is …Yeh, there IS a DRIVER shortage, but when you look at the road users around you, deffo not a STEERER shortage.
As already said, if this myth (originally put about by ■■■■ agencies )was in fact absolutely genuine, we would be one of the better paid industries, as opposed to the reality of us being one of the comparatively worst.
The ironic thing about that last point is, it is because of the existence and development over the years of said agencies that the wages and indeed conditions in the job generally are crap anyway, as many large companies use agencies as a preference to taking on a full time driver and paying him a proper wage, they would rather overpay the agency enough to pay the driver indirectly with enough left over for their parasitic cream off.
You do not need to be some kind of expert or economist to work that one out.
Evil8Beezle:
This forum is for the universally challenged Harry. Not university challenge!
…
Love it.
My take on the ‘Driver shortage’ is …Yeh, there IS a DRIVER shortage, but when you look at the road users around you, deffo not a STEERER shortage.
As already said, if this myth (originally put about by [zb] agencies )was in fact absolutely genuine, we would be one of the better paid industries, as opposed to the reality of us being one of the comparatively worst.
The ironic thing about that last point is, it is because of the existence and development over the years of said agencies that the wages and indeed conditions in the job generally are crap anyway, as many large companies use agencies as a preference to taking on a full time driver and paying him a proper wage, they would rather overpay the agency enough to pay the driver indirectly with enough left over for their parasitic cream off.
You do not need to be some kind of expert or economist to work that one out.
A lot of truth there. And truth in Truckmans comments about strong unions. I used to know several people working on the channel ferries, not so many now though. It was a very well paid job 10 or 20 years ago, but one way and another the unions were eased out. At least one company set up its own employment agency: by taking on agency staff it avoided its obligation to pay sick and holiday pay. Some rules have come in prevent this now but money grabbing companies are always looking for economies to make. I dont expect the present government to make for stronger rights for workers, they seem to be about making more corporate profit, not a more equitable society.
Winseer:
The “Great Dying” begins once we do Brexit properly, and EU drivers working here start asking for more money to compensate them for the fact that the pound has fallen enough for their money being sent home to be worth a lot less than it used to be. That’s less EU drivers available. Then there’s the EU drivers like Waeberers coming over here, who don’t get paid so much for their wares any more. That’s less trucks bringing stuff here on the cheap.
Winseer:
Trump in America seems to want to pursue a protectionist policy. This should be good for interstate truckers, but won’t be so hot for the domestic drivers. This would represent a reversal of a long-term difference between the “quality of life” that these two sides of trucking represent of course.
In this country? - Expect less and less foreign trucks hogging the laybys as time goes on this year. Expect also less UK trucks NEEDING laybys for anything beyond a 45 break as well… Tramping itself may be on the verge of going into decline, as the entire trucking economy changes from here on in.
Interesting points.
When we leave the Eu we can start trading with a protectionist President Trump? I cant see our Brexit talks going too well, and think talks with Trumps team even worse, but who knows.
Less foreign trucks on UK roads? If thats because we cant afford to buy anything, then that seems a perverse way of looking at the world to me.
SHYTOT:
There is a shortage of good quality drivers regardless of pay rates & conditions
Good friend of mine is TM for Saxon haulage in Norfolk and he’ll be the first to back this up. All he wants is good experienced drivers who can actually drive/ secure a load properly and do the odd minor repair…very difficult to get hold of…
Would that be John or are we talking about a different Saxon haulage?
I think that one is out in the Sheringham?? area and called Saxon Motors…correct me if im wrong
North Walsham but close enough, Don’t know another Saxon Haulage round these parts, know a Saxton Haulage they have there motors near Attleborough always seem to be a couple standing.
Franglais:
Interesting points.
When we leave the Eu we can start trading with a protectionist President Trump? I cant see our Brexit talks going too well, and think talks with Trumps team even worse, but who knows.
Less foreign trucks on UK roads? If thats because we cant afford to buy anything, then that seems a perverse way of looking at the world to me.
I think Donald Trump is a loose cannon so any promises of a trade deal I’ll take with a pinch of salt at the moment, along with anything else he says.
However the EU and the former US administration were working on TTIP, a trade deal which gives plenty to the Global Corporations, and probably nice little consultancy jobs to those who are negotiating and pushing the deals through. but very little to the people of the EU or US.
Franglais:
Interesting points.
When we leave the Eu we can start trading with a protectionist President Trump? I cant see our Brexit talks going too well, and think talks with Trumps team even worse, but who knows.
Less foreign trucks on UK roads? If thats because we cant afford to buy anything, then that seems a perverse way of looking at the world to me.
I think Donald Trump is a loose cannon so any promises of a trade deal I’ll take with a pinch of salt at the moment, along with anything else he says.
However the EU and the former US administration were working on TTIP, a trade deal which gives plenty to the Global Corporations, and probably nice little consultancy jobs to those who are negotiating and pushing the deals through. but very little to the people of the EU or US.
I dont think hes made any promises about future trade deals, except to try to tear up all the existing ones! Saying hell impose swingeing import taxes will only lead to trade wars and trading losses, with less transport needed. TTIP may be angled towards Globalisation too much, but Id rather that, than going to a world where we all sit in our little bubbles suspiciously looking out at “all those foreigners out there”. How someone can see a way to grow and prosper by closing down trade is beyond me. Still, I`m no economist and could well be wrong. . . as I frequently am. .
Franglais:
Interesting points.
When we leave the Eu we can start trading with a protectionist President Trump? I cant see our Brexit talks going too well, and think talks with Trumps team even worse, but who knows.
Less foreign trucks on UK roads? If thats because we cant afford to buy anything, then that seems a perverse way of looking at the world to me.
I think Donald Trump is a loose cannon so any promises of a trade deal I’ll take with a pinch of salt at the moment, along with anything else he says.
However the EU and the former US administration were working on TTIP, a trade deal which gives plenty to the Global Corporations, and probably nice little consultancy jobs to those who are negotiating and pushing the deals through. but very little to the people of the EU or US.
I dont think hes made any promises about future trade deals, except to try to tear up all the existing ones! Saying hell impose swingeing import taxes will only lead to trade wars and trading losses, with less transport needed. TTIP may be angled towards Globalisation too much, but Id rather that, than going to a world where we all sit in our little bubbles suspiciously looking out at “all those foreigners out there”. How someone can see a way to grow and prosper by closing down trade is beyond me. Still, I`m no economist and could well be wrong. . . as I frequently am. .
Maybe promises wasn’t the right word, but he’s hinted at a trade deal with the UK. but then he seems to say what he thinks at them moment.
I doubt that Donald Trump will impose massive barriers as it will also damage US exports, but then he might on a Tuesday but change his mind on a Wednesday and have a trade war with the Moon on Thursday.
but at least with Trump the American people can get rid of him in 4 years and my understanding of the US political system is that the President doesn’t have as much power as people think, he has to get deals with the Senate and congress, and I think they get voted again in 2 years so could end up being a run by the Democratic party.
But Globalization that’s being offered with these new trade deal like TTIP is not good for us, TTIP give power to Global corporations, no vote again in 4 or 5 years if the electorate don’t like it.
Franglais:
Interesting points.
When we leave the Eu we can start trading with a protectionist President Trump? I cant see our Brexit talks going too well, and think talks with Trumps team even worse, but who knows.
Less foreign trucks on UK roads? If thats because we cant afford to buy anything, then that seems a perverse way of looking at the world to me.
I think Donald Trump is a loose cannon so any promises of a trade deal I’ll take with a pinch of salt at the moment, along with anything else he says.
However the EU and the former US administration were working on TTIP, a trade deal which gives plenty to the Global Corporations, and probably nice little consultancy jobs to those who are negotiating and pushing the deals through. but very little to the people of the EU or US.
I dont think hes made any promises about future trade deals, except to try to tear up all the existing ones! Saying hell impose swingeing import taxes will only lead to trade wars and trading losses, with less transport needed. TTIP may be angled towards Globalisation too much, but Id rather that, than going to a world where we all sit in our little bubbles suspiciously looking out at “all those foreigners out there”. How someone can see a way to grow and prosper by closing down trade is beyond me. Still, I`m no economist and could well be wrong. . . as I frequently am. .
TTIP was angled firmly towards the large corporations pulling the strings, it was reason enough all on its own for us to get out of the EU
robroy:
Don’t get political ffs, otherwise Carryfast will rear his ugly head.
Sorry,
I’ll leave it for now, probably not the right thread, and Franglais I understand your points, trade wars aren’t good, but neither is rampant uncontrolled globalisation good for the workers.
robroy:
Don’t get political ffs, otherwise Carryfast will rear his ugly head.
Yeah, take your point, but trade does have a big effect on us in the transport world. Less overall goods shifted, and those goods being moved lesser distances aint gonna be good for any of us, Id say.
Still, to get back on topic, it would end any driver shortages: with nowt to shift there will be a surplus of drivers, so we can all look forward to an early retirement, paid for by a generous government, grateful for our contribution to society over the years. Or not?
Love it.