General driver shortage

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
41

Franglais:

Winseer:
The “Great Dying” begins once we do Brexit properly, and EU drivers working here start asking for more money to compensate them for the fact that the pound has fallen enough for their money being sent home to be worth a lot less than it used to be. That’s less EU drivers available. Then there’s the EU drivers like Waeberers coming over here, who don’t get paid so much for their wares any more. That’s less trucks bringing stuff here on the cheap.

Winseer:
Trump in America seems to want to pursue a protectionist policy. This should be good for interstate truckers, but won’t be so hot for the domestic drivers. This would represent a reversal of a long-term difference between the “quality of life” that these two sides of trucking represent of course.

In this country? - Expect less and less foreign trucks hogging the laybys as time goes on this year. Expect also less UK trucks NEEDING laybys for anything beyond a 45 break as well… Tramping itself may be on the verge of going into decline, as the entire trucking economy changes from here on in. :bulb:

Interesting points.
When we leave the Eu we can start trading with a protectionist President Trump? I cant see our Brexit talks going too well, and think talks with Trumps team even worse, but who knows.
Less foreign trucks on UK roads? If thats because we cant afford to buy anything, then that seems a perverse way of looking at the world to me.

Our trade with the USA is going to be primarily about “re-sourcing food that we used to get from the EU”. At the moment, American food “doesn’t meet EU standards” meaning that it is the wrong shape rather than “inedible” as the EU would otherwise have us believe. Dunno about everyone else, but if the price of food falls 50% for instance, and the quality goes down 10% (curly bananas from Puerto Rico instead of straight ones from French Guyana) - then do’ya know what? - I think I can live with that! Imagine the freight forwarding jobs available once this avalanche of food from the other side of the Atlantic - starts landing at our ports up and down the land… The rest of the UK’s ports will also have to be brought upto speed - to deal with this huge influx of course… Where’s the downside? China cannot TOUCH America when it comes to producing food - so no competition from that direction either. Meanwhile, in the EU, where they destroy food mountains to uphold the price instead of giving it to the third world - it’s high time this evil empire came to a swift end now. The knife is in - now let’s ally with Trump to give it a damned good twist, and turn it past all that liberal elite remoaner gristle that’s currently blocking that movement… :smiling_imp:

42

Winseer:
Our trade with the USA is going to be primarily about “re-sourcing food that we used to get from the EU”. At the moment, American food “doesn’t meet EU standards” meaning that it is the wrong shape rather than “inedible” as the EU would otherwise have us believe. Dunno about everyone else, but if the price of food falls 50% for instance, and the quality goes down 10% (curly bananas from Puerto Rico instead of straight ones from French Guyana) - then do’ya know what? - I think I can live with that! Imagine the freight forwarding jobs available once this avalanche of food from the other side of the Atlantic - starts landing at our ports up and down the land… The rest of the UK’s ports will also have to be brought upto speed - to deal with this huge influx of course… Where’s the downside? China cannot TOUCH America when it comes to producing food - so no competition from that direction either. Meanwhile, in the EU, where they destroy food mountains to uphold the price instead of giving it to the third world - it’s high time this evil empire came to a swift end now. The knife is in - now let’s ally with Trump to give it a damned good twist, and turn it past all that liberal elite remoaner gristle that’s currently blocking that movement… :smiling_imp:

Sorry RobRoy, maybe you should look away now?

If we import food from the US then that will cost more in transport as it has to come further. Global big agro companies dumping cheap product here will not do good for balance of payments and wont help domestic high ethics farmers. Eu and UK standards in slaughter houses are partly concerned about animal welfare and hygiene standards. In the US it is deemed ok to have fetal contamination of carcasses provided such matter is washed off. In the Eu and Uk this isnt allowed. E.G. in the US the meat can be covered in ■■■■ provided its cleaned off with bleach before sale. In the US there is much greater use of antibiotics in meat animals. Do UK consumers want that? In the Us there is much less regulation of GM crops and feeding of GM products to animals. Does the UK want that? Against Globalisation? No problem with nice little Ma n Pa companies like Monsanto involved in US and world agriculture then? Dunno about current figures but in 2004 the US subsidised its farmers by over 8 billion dollars. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_subsidy
China produces food for 20% of the world population on 10% of the worlds arable land area. No, they are not a big exporter of food today, and may not be for a long time to come, but they do this without using vast amounts of machinery and chemical input. Im no fan of some aspects of the Eu, but frying/fire seems to come to mind here.

43

The only shortage of drivers are at firms with crap pay and conditions. Firms like P and H will always struggle, simply because people are paid to be drivers but end up as shelf stackers to some ignorant Asian shopkeeper/forecourt cashier.

44

Franglais:

Winseer:
Our trade with the USA is going to be primarily about “re-sourcing food that we used to get from the EU”. At the moment, American food “doesn’t meet EU standards” meaning that it is the wrong shape rather than “inedible” as the EU would otherwise have us believe. Dunno about everyone else, but if the price of food falls 50% for instance, and the quality goes down 10% (curly bananas from Puerto Rico instead of straight ones from French Guyana) - then do’ya know what? - I think I can live with that! Imagine the freight forwarding jobs available once this avalanche of food from the other side of the Atlantic - starts landing at our ports up and down the land… The rest of the UK’s ports will also have to be brought upto speed - to deal with this huge influx of course… Where’s the downside? China cannot TOUCH America when it comes to producing food - so no competition from that direction either. Meanwhile, in the EU, where they destroy food mountains to uphold the price instead of giving it to the third world - it’s high time this evil empire came to a swift end now. The knife is in - now let’s ally with Trump to give it a damned good twist, and turn it past all that liberal elite remoaner gristle that’s currently blocking that movement… :smiling_imp:

Sorry RobRoy, maybe you should look away now?

If we import food from the US then that will cost more in transport as it has to come further. Global big agro companies dumping cheap product here will not do good for balance of payments and wont help domestic high ethics farmers. Eu and UK standards in slaughter houses are partly concerned about animal welfare and hygiene standards. In the US it is deemed ok to have fetal contamination of carcasses provided such matter is washed off. In the Eu and Uk this isnt allowed. E.G. in the US the meat can be covered in [zb] provided its cleaned off with bleach before sale. In the US there is much greater use of antibiotics in meat animals. Do UK consumers want that? In the Us there is much less regulation of GM crops and feeding of GM products to animals. Does the UK want that? Against Globalisation? No problem with nice little Ma n Pa companies like Monsanto involved in US and world agriculture then? Dunno about current figures but in 2004 the US subsidised its farmers by over 8 billion dollars. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_subsidy
China produces food for 20% of the world population on 10% of the worlds arable land area. No, they are not a big exporter of food today, and may not be for a long time to come, but they do this without using vast amounts of machinery and chemical input. Im no fan of some aspects of the Eu, but frying/fire seems to come to mind here.

over 90% of the trasnportation costs are not to be met by the UK. Only the freight forwarding as I mentioned, is of cost to “British” transport.
We coped fine with the importation of “New Zealand Lamb” back in the '70s. I was one of those kids who asked the question "How can bringing something we can produce right here in Britain - be cheap enough so that it pays to get it from the other side of the world"? Because it’s Commonwealth-Commonwealth trade I got told.

If the UK allows Halal Meat to even happen in the country, then all other arguments with regards to “Animal Welfare in the Slaughter Business” fall flat right then and there.
Contaminating meat with “Bleach” is no worse than the salted meat used during the renaissance. Cl- really isn’t that harmful, at least no more harmful than “salt” is generally perceived to be.
The entire concept of “Is GM harmful?” falls in the same bracket as “Is there really a significant level of man-made climate change?”. Well, I don’t believe in either argument. Eating a deformed animal corrupted at the genetic level isn’t going to hurt you any more than eating a Cow that went to Eton FFS. The world’s climate change is nearly 100% natural “geophysical cycles” - unless you really think that the other 80 ice ages that have occurred since the dawn of mankind - were mankind’s fault as well. :unamused:

China is the only country in the world where a western food trade embargo would actually cause a famine as a weapon of war. Think about how much effect “only producing half the food the standing population actually needs to stay alive” works when your nation’s population is well over a billion already…

All in all, the public are seriously questioning the way “things have been done” for generations now. The world has changed, and the age-old way of doing things - has not even tried to keep pace.
The mega corporations have been trying to corner this “future market” for years. Now the population of the world are starting to look for different arguments as to “Why they say we must remain poor” and suchlike. At present, the 1% would argue “Because there’s so many of you 99%”… just in time to remind that same disgruntled public - that we could easily duff that 1% over if the mood took us. :smiling_imp:

Today’s politics is all about “how to get the tail to wag the dog” rather than “who beats up who”. In the old days, a large mass of people getting anywhere near topping the high and mighty - would just be put to death, sent to die in a war, or staved in a man-made famine - and that would have been the end of it. TImes have changed. The 99% are not going anywhere, if only they could unite instead of be split right down the middle as to “one half that believes the 1%'s bull” and the other half that have either worked out something different, or have decided to follow someone perhaps more up-market in their education that has worked it out for them.
For the “highs” of the 99%, you’re looking for blue-sky thinkers. For the “lower end” - those that merely need to follow those thinkers that, are after all, - on their side and always have been.
There’s no need to applaud or throw money - just stop snapping at our heels all the time please. :unamused: :slight_smile:

The currency of the future won’t be numbered bits of paper - it will be one set of people with skills that work even without mod cons vs another set who cannot function without those mod cons. What you were taught in education - means nothing if you didn’t remember it or even learn it in the first place. :sunglasses:

45

muckles:
North Walsham but close enough, :laughing: Don’t know another Saxon Haulage round these parts, know a Saxton Haulage they have there motors near Attleborough always seem to be a couple standing.

Youre quite right Muckles and my typo mistake :blush: Yes, it is Sax’T’on haulage NOT Saxon :unamused:
Not having seen their trucks or yard i only had my conversation with Tim the TM to go on . They dont have an office as such Tim works from his home address very near my Uk address in Norwich.

46

Interesting. These companies have a lot of overheads to cover. As usual in business the “service” or “product” personnel - the ones who are on the ground doing the actual work are the one’s who are paid the least.

If you are ever told they can’t afford to pay anymore do some homework. Type in the company name here at this link and look up the accounts etc:

beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/search?q=

You might be surprised the liabilities some of these companies have on their books :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :open_mouth: and that being paid the right amount and on time is a stroke of goodluck.

There are simply too many players in the market these days, it’s a cut throat game and sadly cheapest man wins.

47

I happened to be browsing the BBC News website t’other day an came across this interesting article.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38666752

I particularly liked the quote; 'At New Covent Garden market, vegetable seller Mark Gregory said: "Whereas normally courgettes are £6 or £7 [a crate], they’re now 20-22 quid and we’re struggling to get them.

“We usually have a couple of pallets full of them, this morning we’ve got just 80 boxes.”

He is awaiting delivery of a lorry load of courgettes which should have arrived on Wednesday but will not be in the UK until Friday.’

Oh the irony of it, they are waiting on a truck to bring it - hope the driver who was bringing it didn’t have to sit around for 2 days unpaid, but I digress, that’s another thing altogether.

So, the above tells me that almost all things in life are about supply and demand - wow, how things have changed. Not.

If courgettes are in short supply, then by the looks of things, their price has rocketed approx. 300% in the last few weeks or so. Simply put, prices have gone up - who’d have guessed. This is courgettes we are talking about, hardly life-changing to almost everyone if you can’t get hold of one - sorry ladies…, you’ll just have to get by another way for the time being.

These foreign vegetable growers have made sure they are not losing out. Did they think, hmm, what if the UK buying public just substituted our courgettes for something else, and we end up with a load of unsold / going rotten produce? Did they hell, they upped the price 3 times to cover a poor harvest / yield.

So, if there is ‘really’ a driver shortage, then why hasn’t that mentality transferred into the trucking industry? Why do I know drivers who in more than one case tell me they were earning more 10+ years ago? It doesn’t add up. At all.

48

Londontrucker123:
So, if there is ‘really’ a driver shortage, then why hasn’t that mentality transferred into the trucking industry? Why do I know drivers who in more than one case tell me they were earning more 10+ years ago? It doesn’t add up. At all.

Simple, there is no shortage!
All we have is ■■■■ and wind from the industry bosses screaming as such, as they want a ready supply of minions to do their bidding without question at the lowest price possible. The last thing they want is drivers having a choice, so moving on to better things and giving them the headache of annoying things like staff retention! :unamused:

49

Good post…my opinion is that a few years ago, the supermarkets were good payers…drivers didnt want that kind of work…so they turned to the agencies…now i dont know a supermarket who employs directly…it was done because it 1. takes the worry of running a large transport operation. 2. it has no worries if theyre over staffed, as the agencies run it anyway and can reduce the staff levels when they want. 3. its pure greed to raise their profit margins.
Drivers are now waking up and smelling the coffee, they too want a decent standard of living, and are now avoiding the low payers…these are the ones who are now employing east europeans, for low wages, max hours…and englishman would be mad to work for one of these.
The east europeans are mostly working/saving to return home one day, so they will live many to a house to keep the costs down, and share everything, often too avoiding changing their registrations, but still avoiding the uk road taxes, insurance, and mot…all being bought in their home countries they visit once a year.
As for the amount of foreign trucks on our roads…this is not going to stop because of brexit…the whole of the EU who export to the UK, are too looking for cut throat transport, as is the uk, although most of the transport is a one way journey to the uk, and they ship back out empty…only a few get return loads, or they wait for days or sometimes weeks for a return load, preferring to park in the uk where its cheaper, and not so many risks as in mainland europe. The whole of this is because every company is looking to cut their rates, and thats throughout europe. thats not going to change either…its called competition…we`ve always had it, and it will continue to be.

50

Evil8Beezle:

Londontrucker123:
So, if there is ‘really’ a driver shortage, then why hasn’t that mentality transferred into the trucking industry? Why do I know drivers who in more than one case tell me they were earning more 10+ years ago? It doesn’t add up. At all.

Simple, there is no shortage!

Exactly that. My ex next-door-neighbour was a bricklayer. In the midst of the 1990s recession he was lucky if he could find work at £30 a day. Three years later when the economy had recovered and building was booming he was earning £150 a day. If there was a shortage of HGV drivers then this would be happening to our wages.

What is happening is that the haulage industry are worried about cheap eastern European labour being outlawed post-Brexit, and that they will have to start paying western European labour costs for drivers, and so they are spreading this scare story in order to be allowed to continue as they are.

51

My firm has gone down the Eastern European route as they couldn’t get drivers. Not so much because of wages more because it is a dirty horrible job with old but legal trucks and they like to crack the whip and keep you busy.
This is changing now due to insurance company’s.
When there renewal come up only three company’s would even quote and come done harshly on points allowed and how many accidents drivers had etc.
They now struggle to get drivers due to Tomaz and Bogdan wanting to drive on a polish or rumo licence and many knocking things down like there’s no tomorrow. And the insurance company just say no cover for them.

52

truckyboy:
Good post…my opinion is that a few years ago, the supermarkets were good payers…drivers didnt want that kind of work…so they turned to the agencies…now i dont know a supermarket who employs directly…it was done because it 1. takes the worry of running a large transport operation. 2. it has no worries if theyre over staffed, as the agencies run it anyway and can reduce the staff levels when they want. 3. its pure greed to raise their profit margins.
Drivers are now waking up and smelling the coffee, they too want a decent standard of living, and are now avoiding the low payers…these are the ones who are now employing east europeans, for low wages, max hours…and englishman would be mad to work for one of these.
The east europeans are mostly working/saving to return home one day, so they will live many to a house to keep the costs down, and share everything, often too avoiding changing their registrations, but still avoiding the uk road taxes, insurance, and mot…all being bought in their home countries they visit once a year.
As for the amount of foreign trucks on our roads…this is not going to stop because of brexit…the whole of the EU who export to the UK, are too looking for cut throat transport, as is the uk, although most of the transport is a one way journey to the uk, and they ship back out empty…only a few get return loads, or they wait for days or sometimes weeks for a return load, preferring to park in the uk where its cheaper, and not so many risks as in mainland europe. The whole of this is because every company is looking to cut their rates, and thats throughout europe. thats not going to change either…its called competition…we`ve always had it, and it will continue to be.

Indeed. The higher hourly rates ON agency - started at the “food end of freight” as well. It’s still for “General Haulage” to catch up…

53

truckyboy:
often too avoiding changing their registrations, but still avoiding the uk road taxes, insurance, and mot…all being bought in their home countries they visit once a year.

My pet hate. I can’t stand driving into work and seeing the same cars on foreign plates week in week out month in month out.

A complete abuse of the system. Plod ain’t even remotely interested in clamping down on it.

Now that I think about it, maybe I should fly out to CZ / PL, other EE countries are available, buy a runabout an just do the same…

54

AndrewG:

SHYTOT:
There is a shortage of good quality drivers regardless of pay rates & conditions

Good friend of mine is TM for Saxon haulage in Norfolk and he’ll be the first to back this up. All he wants is good experienced drivers who can actually drive/ secure a load properly and do the odd minor repair…very difficult to get hold of…

All I want is a Bentley but they won’t give me one for ‘Mini’ money.

So for £7/8 per hour he’ll wait a long time!

55

kr79:
My firm has gone down the Eastern European route as they couldn’t get drivers. Not so much because of wages more because it is a dirty horrible job with old but legal trucks and they like to crack the whip and keep you busy.
This is changing now due to insurance company’s.
When there renewal come up only three company’s would even quote and come done harshly on points allowed and how many accidents drivers had etc.
They now struggle to get drivers due to Tomaz and Bogdan wanting to drive on a polish or rumo licence and many knocking things down like there’s no tomorrow. And the insurance company just say no cover for them.

As I’ve said many a time - it is the insurance industry wising up to the abuse of their own system that will bring an end to the “6 points ok” happy hour for recruited drivers. Meanwhile you can’t get fresh blood in for love nor money among our own citizens. There is a window of remaining opportunity in that some yards might consider fully sponsoring immigrants to commit to staying here more than five years (for example) and in return, they’ll push you throught the system to get an indefinite leave to remain Oxymoron that this sounds like these days… :wink:

The new speeding penalties being increased might push this “six points ok” upto “nine points OK” as well in the near future, and that might be the final straw for insurers, who’ll only offer renewal quotes at such sky high prices, that any accidents at all - come straight out of that yard’s pockets in future. The yards already “laying their own insurance” - will not be adversely affected by this of course.

Once this insurance revolution filters down to ‘personal liability premiums’ rather than “vehicle-related cover” - it will be a game-changing tilt, and you’ll see a LOT of change in the industry in a short space.

Even Money if that is “any time during 2017” or “any time after that” I reckons! :smiling_imp:

56

ROG:
If there was a real general shortage of LGV drivers then those passing the test would be immediately snapped up - that is not happening

Also - the advertised jobs would mainly be by companies not agencies

+1

57

They’re snapping up brand new C2 pass people up - on multidrops at least. 3663, Bidvest, Brakes as actual full time jobs. Unlimited agency still available at P&H and now Warburtons (paddock wood) as well.

Surely things can’t be too bad at agency if there’s so much unfilled work - because there is a driver shortage. More jobs than drivers willing (rather than ‘able’) to do them…