ERF 'European' (1975)

[erf-ngc-european]

tonyj105:
looks like they put a b series rear window in as well

tony

Well observed! Yes, I imagine that was for maximum rearward vision. It occurs to me that this unit probably spent its days off road as a ballasted tractor hauling wagons between workshops at Sens. This might explain why an NHC 250 was considered adequate. Robert

[tonyj105]

would have been a better bet than burning out a turbo at low speed all day

[erf-ngc-european]

tonyj105:
would have been a better bet than burning out a turbo at low speed all day

Good point! That would account for them not using the 290 rather than the 335!

robert

[carryfast]

ERF-NGC-European:

tonyj105:
looks like they put a b series rear window in as well

tony

Well observed! Yes, I imagine that was for maximum rearward vision. It occurs to me that this unit probably spent its days off road as a ballasted tractor hauling wagons between workshops at Sens. This might explain why an NHC 250 was considered adequate. Robert

Blimey an NGC seems like a lot of unnecessary truck for a yard shunter tractor. A day cab B series with an Allison torque converter/auto box might have been the more logical ( and cheaper ) option in that case ?.

[erf-ngc-european]

Carryfast:

ERF-NGC-European:

tonyj105:
looks like they put a b series rear window in as well

tony

Well observed! Yes, I imagine that was for maximum rearward vision. It occurs to me that this unit probably spent its days off road as a ballasted tractor hauling wagons between workshops at Sens. This might explain why an NHC 250 was considered adequate. Robert

Blimey an NGC seems like a lot of unnecessary truck for a yard shunter tractor. A day cab B series with an Allison torque converter/auto box might have been the more logical ( and cheaper ) option in that case ?.

I’m sure you are right, but in the real world (that isn’t your fantasy of what might have been) we have some evidence here of a naturally-aspirated ■■■■■■■ NHC 250 engine performing the task as required. Why would you want more than a 250 and a 9-sp Fuller in those circumstances, given the era? Robert

[john_west]

ERF-NGC-European:

Kenb:

ERF-NGC-European:

Kenb:
Hello. DCI Robert

Love your threads

Just a few points
S Jones only did 3 runs to Qatar and nowhere else other then Europe and those run were prior to Trans Arabia being even thought about - all 3 trucks came home.

Bahrain was and is an island - the causeway to Saudi opened in the early 80s

Star Commercials were pushing trucks around heavily in the late 70s - any link on this thread to someone from there camp??

The man who would have known was Derek Bill ERF export sales who use to come to ME quite a bit - but sadley he’s no longer with us.

Robert - keep up the good work

Ken

Good to hear from you again, Ken! There’s something else you might be able to help with. Here’s a picture of TA 139 on the back of a trailer. It’s just been overhauled at Aldridge and painted in TA colours ready to be sent back out to Jeddah. I recently found out that it’s earlier Dutch owner-driver, called Steef Slappendel did an overland trip with it to the Middle-East and ended up in Jeddah where it was acquired by Trans Arabia. You would have overseen that acquisition so I wonder if you remember why the Dutchman parted with his lorry mid-trip (a breakdown perhaps? Or ran out of funds?). It would be interesting to know. The unit was registered 12-97-FB and was painted a light faun colour with white roof and white grille. TA sent it back to UK to be fitted out for its service with you in Jeddah.

Cheers, Robert.

0

Hi again

After my time - but I maybe able to find info for you.
Will come back

Ken

Many thanks! Robert

Behring / Caravan, Caravan Trading, based in Dammam. We bought several (sorry, didn’t keep a diary and don’t remember details) ERFs from Mark at Star Commercial. They were all B series. I don’t remember seeing an NGC, except of course Trans Arabia’s and Camel’s, certainly I don’t remember Star Commercial running or even importing any. As KB says, nobody did overland or even internals to Bahrain. I went to Bahrain a couple of times, but it was on a five minute flight from Dhahran in a737! The only time I travelled ‘overland’ to Bahrain was my final trip home with Julie, my wife. We flew home in June 1987 from there, just so we could take a taxi across the newly opened causeway.

Happy days,

John.

[carryfast]

ERF-NGC-European:

Carryfast:
Blimey an NGC seems like a lot of unnecessary truck for a yard shunter tractor. A day cab B series with an Allison torque converter/auto box might have been the more logical ( and cheaper ) option in that case ?.

I’m sure you are right, but in the real world (that isn’t your fantasy of what might have been) we have some evidence here of a naturally-aspirated ■■■■■■■ NHC 250 engine performing the task as required. Why would you want more than a 250 and a 9-sp Fuller in those circumstances, given the era? Robert

I wasn’t making any case for ‘more than a 250’.I was just wondering as to the logic of an NGC instead of a day cabbed B series and I’m assuming Fuller as opposed to Allison transmission considering the type of work ( lots of heavy slow speed stop start type movements ) .That was all and certainly no what might have been fantasy.

[erf-ngc-european]

John West:
Hi again

After my time - but I maybe able to find info for you.
Will come back

Ken

Many thanks! Robert
[/quote]
Behring / Caravan, Caravan Trading, based in Dammam. We bought several (sorry, didn’t keep a diary and don’t remember details) ERFs from Mark at Star Commercial. They were all B series. I don’t remember seeing an NGC, except of course Trans Arabia’s and Camel’s, certainly I don’t remember Star Commercial running or even importing any. As KB says, nobody did overland or even internals to Bahrain. I went to Bahrain a couple of times, but it was on a five minute flight from Dhahran in a737! The only time I travelled ‘overland’ to Bahrain was my final trip home with Julie, my wife. We flew home in June 1987 from there, just so we could take a taxi across the newly opened causeway.

Happy days,

John.
[/quote]
Thanks for helping to eliminate international trips to Bahrain from my enquiries John. Robert

[erf-ngc-european]

Carryfast:

ERF-NGC-European:

Carryfast:
Blimey an NGC seems like a lot of unnecessary truck for a yard shunter tractor. A day cab B series with an Allison torque converter/auto box might have been the more logical ( and cheaper ) option in that case ?.

I’m sure you are right, but in the real world (that isn’t your fantasy of what might have been) we have some evidence here of a naturally-aspirated ■■■■■■■ NHC 250 engine performing the task as required. Why would you want more than a 250 and a 9-sp Fuller in those circumstances, given the era? Robert

I wasn’t making any case for ‘more than a 250’.I was just wondering as to the logic of an NGC instead of a day cabbed B series and I’m assuming Fuller as opposed to Allison transmission considering the type of work ( lots of heavy slow speed stop start type movements ) .That was all and certainly no what might have been fantasy.

I see what you mean CF. I suppose you could also ask the question ‘and why an ERF?’ given the array of choices available to the French at the time. It makes me wonder if perhaps MABO was sent a 250-powered NGC to try and woo domestic operators running at modest weights. If there were no takers, perhaps the unit was offered at a beguiling price and ended up hauling railway wagons in a goods marshalling yard in Sens - who knows? Robert

[carryfast]

ERF-NGC-European:
I see what you mean CF. I suppose you could also ask the question ‘and why an ERF?’ given the array of choices available to the French at the time. It makes me wonder if perhaps MABO was sent a 250-powered NGC to try and woo domestic operators running at modest weights. If there were no takers, perhaps the unit was offered at a beguiling price and ended up hauling railway wagons in a goods marshalling yard in Sens - who knows? Robert

^ This.Good explanation Robert.

[erf-ngc-european]

With regard to the porte remorque Ferdom set-up in Sens, I’ve found an amazing railway website that shows how it all worked, along with dozens of shots of the other lorries of that time performing their duties. Here’s the link:

forum.e-train.fr/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31143

[erf-ngc-european]

I’ve also found a clearer set of scans for that brochure which might help with reading the small print! Robert

[erf-ngc-european]

[deanb]

Funny you should post that website i have already looked at it as my french contact mentioned it. There are
some other threads on there about transporting the railway wagons. There are a fair few pictures of
different trucks on there but could not find any more of the NGC. That Berliet pic is also Transport
Marquet.

There are a few more train sites as well in France but like all subjects there are so many threads !

I am still not sure if Ferdom actually owned any trucks or if they just sub contracted the work out to
heavy hauliers,advertising there name on there trucks ■■

No doubt we will find more info.

[erf-ngc-european]

DEANB:
Funny you should post that website i have already looked at it as my french contact mentioned it. There are
some other threads on there about transporting the railway wagons. There are a fair few pictures of
different trucks on there but could not find any more of the NGC. That Berliet pic is also Transport
Marquet.

There are a few more train sites as well in France but like all subjects there are so many threads !

I am still not sure if Ferdom actually owned any trucks or if they just sub contracted the work out to
heavy hauliers,advertising there name on there trucks ■■

No doubt we will find more info.

At first I thought this system was to facilitate the maintenance of railway wagons by hauling them into workshops by truck, but then I reflected that railway companies usually just run sidings into their workshops anyway. So why take them off the sidings? The answer seems to lie in that brochure. Quite extraordinarily (IMHO) the idea appears to be that individual wagons can be taken to any of the warehouses within the rail-head transport hub and loaded directly by forklift before being popped back onto the sidings by ERF! Robert

[erf-ngc-european]

Still no further evidence to back up the Wagner Jumet Gosseliers unit (no.80 on the reg). Any news on that one lads? Robert

[deanb]

Magazine revue officile des transporteurs did a piece on the NGC ! Not sure of date / month or it may
have possibly been a show brochure. Looks like the pics we have seen before,from memory taken at
CDB,Brussels.

[erf-ngc-european]

DEANB:
Magazine revue officile des transporteurs did a piece on the NGC ! Not sure of date / month or it may
have possibly been a show brochure. Looks like the pics we have seen before,from memory taken at
CDB,Brussels.

That’s an interesting ‘find’ Dean! Your are right about the CDB picture. This article is all arse-about-face! I reckon it must have been written some time into the NGC production period, even though the interior picture is an early promo one, because the journalist has written a caption mistakenly stating that it shows the interior of a B-series SP cab. If you read the text, it is not about the NGC at all, rather it is all about the new B-series. It even describes the front-end test on the SP cab! Also, the engines are those supplied to B-series, not NGCs. The journalist has quite clearly not done his homework and has used NGC pictures to illustrate a B-series article . As we know the NGC came out in early '73, the B-series didn’t come out till '74 and the big LHD cab didn’t come out till late '76. This might explain why on some French sites the NGC is described as being a B-series. Robert

[deanb]

ERF-NGC-European:

DEANB:
Magazine revue officile des transporteurs did a piece on the NGC ! Not sure of date / month or it may
have possibly been a show brochure. Looks like the pics we have seen before,from memory taken at
CDB,Brussels.

That’s an interesting ‘find’ Dean! Your are right about the CDB picture. This article is all arse-about-face! I reckon it must have been written some time into the NGC production period, even though the interior picture is an early promo one, because the journalist has written a caption mistakenly stating that it shows the interior of a B-series SP cab. If you read the text, it is not about the NGC at all, rather it is all about the new B-series. It even describes the front-end test on the SP cab! Also, the engines are those supplied to B-series, not NGCs. The journalist has quite clearly not done his homework and has used NGC pictures to illustrate a B-series article . As we know the NGC came out in early '73, the B-series didn’t come out till '74 and the big LHD cab didn’t come out till late '76. This might explain why on some French sites the NGC is described as being a B-series. Robert

Seems to be a bit of a mix up as you say although the NGC is covered in there as well.

[erf-ngc-european]

DEANB:

ERF-NGC-European:

DEANB:
Magazine revue officile des transporteurs did a piece on the NGC ! Not sure of date / month or it may
have possibly been a show brochure. Looks like the pics we have seen before,from memory taken at
CDB,Brussels.

That’s an interesting ‘find’ Dean! Your are right about the CDB picture. This article is all arse-about-face! I reckon it must have been written some time into the NGC production period, even though the interior picture is an early promo one, because the journalist has written a caption mistakenly stating that it shows the interior of a B-series SP cab. If you read the text, it is not about the NGC at all, rather it is all about the new B-series. It even describes the front-end test on the SP cab! Also, the engines are those supplied to B-series, not NGCs. The journalist has quite clearly not done his homework and has used NGC pictures to illustrate a B-series article . As we know the NGC came out in early '73, the B-series didn’t come out till '74 and the big LHD cab didn’t come out till late '76. This might explain why on some French sites the NGC is described as being a B-series. Robert

Seems to be a bit of a mix up as you say although the NGC is covered in there as well.

You’re right! The writer appears to have conflated two entirely separate models and be dafter that I’d given him credit for. Lack of homework - probably on the vin extra-ordinaire (catch ME doing that)! Robert