Driver's mate / breaks

[mooping]

stevieboy308:

Wiretwister:
Also need to consider how you make an accurate record of your days activities. If your card is in slot 2 the default when the vehicle is moving is POA and can not be changed to other work, at least on the occassions I have done it. If navigating, on the phone to customers etc you are working. The only way to make an accurate record is a manual entry.

Nope, the correct way is to have your card in slot 2, which you must do, then do a printout and write on that between X & Y you were on other work and not poa

Where did you learn that from if I may ask?

[stevieboy308]

gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … raph-rules

[wiretwister]

stevieboy308:

Wiretwister:
Also need to consider how you make an accurate record of your days activities. If your card is in slot 2 the default when the vehicle is moving is POA and can not be changed to other work, at least on the occassions I have done it. If navigating, on the phone to customers etc you are working. The only way to make an accurate record is a manual entry.

Nope, the correct way is to have your card in slot 2, which you must do, then do a printout and write on that between X & Y you were on other work and not poa

How does the tachomaster system read notes written on the back of a printout? Quite important if you’re paid from tacho records for working hours. Or seen as not working, when you actually are, & thus have hours available to be used. Very relevant if you are salaried for ■■ No of hours per week/month/reference period.

The tacho software is at fault here because it cannot record an accurate record onto the driver card but why try & fix that when the benefit is exclusively the employers.

[stevieboy308]

Wiretwister:

stevieboy308:

Wiretwister:
Also need to consider how you make an accurate record of your days activities. If your card is in slot 2 the default when the vehicle is moving is POA and can not be changed to other work, at least on the occassions I have done it. If navigating, on the phone to customers etc you are working. The only way to make an accurate record is a manual entry.

Nope, the correct way is to have your card in slot 2, which you must do, then do a printout and write on that between X & Y you were on other work and not poa

How does the tachomaster system read notes written on the back of a printout? Quite important if you’re paid from tacho records for working hours. Or seen as not working, when you actually are, & thus have hours available to be used. Very relevant if you are salaried for ■■ No of hours per week/month/reference period.

The tacho software is at fault here because it cannot record an accurate record onto the driver card but why try & fix that when the benefit is exclusively the employers.

Yep, I don’t see any reason whatsoever why you can’t record other work when the vehicle is moving an a card is in slot 2, the only thing I thought there might be a reason for not letting you record break is it may cause issues with looking like rest if over 3 hours for analysis, which you can’t take in a moving vehicle, but I’m only guessing, other than that I don’t see why you can’t select bed either

[franglais]

stevieboy308:

Wiretwister:

stevieboy308:

Wiretwister:
Also need to consider how you make an accurate record of your days activities. If your card is in slot 2 the default when the vehicle is moving is POA and can not be changed to other work, at least on the occassions I have done it. If navigating, on the phone to customers etc you are working. The only way to make an accurate record is a manual entry.

Nope, the correct way is to have your card in slot 2, which you must do, then do a printout and write on that between X & Y you were on other work and not poa

How does the tachomaster system read notes written on the back of a printout? Quite important if you’re paid from tacho records for working hours. Or seen as not working, when you actually are, & thus have hours available to be used. Very relevant if you are salaried for ■■ No of hours per week/month/reference period.

The tacho software is at fault here because it cannot record an accurate record onto the driver card but why try & fix that when the benefit is exclusively the employers.

Yep, I don’t see any reason whatsoever why you can’t record other work when the vehicle is moving an a card is in slot 2, the only thing I thought there might be a reason for not letting you record break is it may cause issues with looking like rest if over 3 hours for analysis, which you can’t take in a moving vehicle, but I’m only guessing, other than that I don’t see why you can’t select bed either

Selecting “bed” is used for break and daily rest.
If the second man were to select “bed” say 4hrs before shift end, when in the passenger seat, he could then start work (illegally) in a different vehicle on a new shift only 4 or 5 hrs after true shift finish?

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[mooping]

Incidentally, I checked my printout for the day I was the second man on the vehicle and it has me on POA during the whole day except for when I set it for ‘break’. So really, I should have been selecting ‘other’ work when I was assisting the driver to load/unload. I’m glad I started this thread as I have learnt a couple of things especially from stevieboy308 's replies.

[rob22888]

Interesting, when I worked for Muller it was forbidden to use slot 2 when out with another driver learning/teaching a run for reasons stated on the thread - you cannot accurately record your duties. The expectation was that at the end of the day, you inserted your card and did manual entries showing Other Work for your time between breaks.

Now, I’ve always gone along with this because it makes sense & a big blue chip outfit like that must have done their research, right? Maybe not.

It’s annoying you can’t select Other Work in slot 2, I really don’t like having my card on POA all day because I know for a fact my employer and most others will use that to their advantage when working out what your average duty time is over the 17 week spread. An employer could theoretically shaft you for weeks on end then correct the excess hours by just putting you out with another driver for a few days.

When are they just going to abolish POA? It’s serves no purpose other than as a WTD fiddle.

[stevieboy308]

rob22888:
Interesting, when I worked for Muller it was forbidden to use slot 2 when out with another driver learning/teaching a run for reasons stated on the thread - you cannot accurately record your duties. The expectation was that at the end of the day, you inserted your card and did manual entries showing Other Work for your time between breaks.

Now, I’ve always gone along with this because it makes sense & a big blue chip outfit like that must have done their research, right? Maybe not.

It’s annoying you can’t select Other Work in slot 2, I really don’t like having my card on POA all day because I know for a fact my employer and most others will use that to their advantage when working out what your average duty time is over the 17 week spread. An employer could theoretically shaft you for weeks on end then correct the excess hours by just putting you out with another driver for a few days.

When are they just going to abolish POA? It’s serves no purpose other than as a WTD fiddle.

To me the I don’t see it as a wtd fiddle as break has the same effect on working time.

To me the only reason it exists and has to exist is for drivers who are paid off their card and gave all recorded breaks deducted.

Before the wtd came in they could sit around waiting on other work, but now they can’t do that with unnecessarily racking up working time, so they brought in poa with the WTD to allow the few that have all recorded breaks deducted a way to get paid whilst not racking up working time when they’re not working, they had to add in a few silly little rules to differentiate it from break, but it’s all uncheckable.

I’ve wondered if it was done that way on purpose so it’s down to the driver to work it how it suits them, the bloke who doesn’t want the hours can say I wasn’t told how long the wait would be, so it’s other work, the bloke who wants to maximise can just bang it on, on the off chance questioned could just say someone in the office said 2 hours!

The only other reason to ever use poa is if you’re bothered about keeping your average down, you’re 5 hours from the yard, gonna be waiting over 45 mins, if you want to get back sooner you could have 15 - 44 on break, then switch to poa, so only needing a 30 on the way back instead of a 45

They are the only 2 reasons to ever use poa that I can see

[manski]

In the bin lorry and 7.5t situations above, has not the DVSA person given the way out with their “check list”. Most, if not all, insurance policies say something like " driving on the orders of or with the permission of the policyholder etc" so if the drivers mate has a letter on company paper that says " Joe Bloggs is not authorised to drive this vehicle and is therefore not insured" he satisfies the DVSA that he is not in any way intending to drive it by answering “NO” to question 2. Of course, in the event of an issue, someone in authority in the company can authorise him by giving an instruction by phone. Simples

QUOTE
These are the questions that should be asked:

1. Does the worker hold the relevant category of driving licence for the vehicle?
2. Is the worker insured to driver the vehicle?
3. Is driving part of their contract of employment?

So anyone who does not answer yes to either or both of 1 & 2 cannot be deemed to be a driver as they could not legally take over driving if necessary.

[roymondo]

stevieboy308:
To me the I don’t see it as a wtd fiddle as break has the same effect on working time.

But it’s not the same. POA pauses the clock, Break (of at least 15 minutes) resets it.

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[stevieboy308]

Roymondo:

stevieboy308:
To me the I don’t see it as a wtd fiddle as break has the same effect on working time.

But it’s not the same. POA pauses the clock, Break (of at least 15 minutes) resets it.

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Neither break or poa of any length count as working time, which was the point I was making!