trevHCS:
But of course it’s the HGV driver who’s apparently automatically at fault regardless
Well it was the truck driver that had his trailer partially across a high speed road in the dark.
If the trailer wasn’t in the road then the accident wouldn’t have happened.
The Audi driver didn’t have his seatbelt on and maybe he was speeding. He would still be alive today had it not been for the truck drivers actions.
And if the Audi driver had been looking where he was going the accident wouldn’t of happened either
At 70 mph, the typical stopping distance is 96 metres (315 feet) with 21 metres of that being thinking distance based on a reaction time of 0.67 seconds, which assumes the driver is alert, concentrating and not impaired. Driving when tired, distracted or impaired significantly increases reaction times, so the thinking distance above should be regarded as a minimum.
Then you have to factor in the road conditions (wet or dry) and how good the brakes and tyres of the Audi were.
dieseldog999:
so the truck was stopped for 15 seconds, how hard would it be to see that from 400 years away if you were paying attention when it had lights on and a lit up unit in front of it when your on a good road?
How do you know it had lights on or that they weren’t faulty? Were you there?
well theres no mention of having faulty lights or he would have been done for that also.
at 5-20 am then you might think they were on.
apart from that.if you cant see something 60 foot long and prob 13 foot high then you deserve what you get. dont be pedantic,its out of character.
dieseldog999:
if a tree or lampost fell across the road with no lights and you ran into it,then the only person to blame is yourself.
skelping along a basically deserted a66 at 5-20 am in your car and not being able to stop or avoid hitting a 60 foot truck with lights on it that shouldnt really have been there in a perfect world would basically be the same scenario.
the flipflop on the m1 at xmas shouldnt have been sitting stopped but thats all he did the same was as if there was an obstruction in front of him,turban boy shouldnt have been sitting behind him when everyone else drove around him,and fedex man should have stopped.
fedex got reamed,audi kid blameless.somethings definately not right there methinks.
Is anyone saying the Audi driver was blameless? Prosecuting him ain’t a good use of taxpayers money.
If this imaginary tree in the road had fallen off a lorry wouldn’t that driver be prosecuted?
Saying anyone driving into it was obviously going too fast, although partly true, wouldn’t be much good as a defence.
Like it or not, punishments are due to outcomes, not causes.
Thump a guy and give him a nose bleed? A fine?
Thump a guy with same force, he hits his head on a kerb and does? Life.
Argue that’s wrong, if you like, but that’s the way it is, isn’t it?
dieseldog999:
well theres no mention of having faulty lights or he would have been done for that also.
at 5-20 am then you might think they were on.
apart from that.if you cant see something 60 foot long and prob 13 foot high then you deserve what you get. dont be pedantic,its out of character.
In the pitch black with just a few side marker lights that may have been working. Hardly Blackpool illuminations is it.
Maybe the Audi driver didn’t realise and/or expect a 40ft trailer to be right across the carriageway.
dieseldog999:
well theres no mention of having faulty lights or he would have been done for that also.
at 5-20 am then you might think they were on.
apart from that.if you cant see something 60 foot long and prob 13 foot high then you deserve what you get. dont be pedantic,its out of character.
In the pitch black with just a few side marker lights that may have been working. Hardly Blackpool illuminations.
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in which case at 5-20 am or indeed any other time then if he had been driving within his visions stopping distance there would have been no incident irrespective of if it was a tree, truck or anything else lying in the road.
if the truck had stalled,or broken down then the driver would be in the clear and the audi would have had some blame for not driving with due care.
About 10 years ago near South Elmsall a local coach driver was killed by colliding with a full size artic driven by a French guy attempting a U turn on the A638.When the case came to court the lorry driver failed to appear and was sentenced,in his absence,to jail for causing death by dangerous driving.He blamed the coach driver for failing to keep good observation and resisted all attempts to get him to return the the UK until he died a few years later due to an illness of some sort.
dieseldog999:
in which case at 5-20 am or indeed any other time then if he had been driving within his visions stopping distance there would have been no incident irrespective of if it was a tree, truck or anything else lying in the road.
if the truck had stalled,or broken down then the driver would be in the clear and the audi would have had some blame for not driving with due care.
In that case then, why are trucks sitting on the limiter along the M6, A66 or A75 (or any other unlit road) because they sure as hell won’t be stopping in time for anything lying in the road. You’re a bit of a hypocrite.
“There was substantial damage to the Transit van and unfortunately we believe neither of the men were wearing seatbelts, which has contributed to their injuries.”
“Had they been wearing their seatbelts the passenger would not have been thrown from the van.
“At the moment, we are unable to say what speed the vehicles were travelling at. We are currently carrying out skid tests on the road, as a standard procedure.
“The maneouvre that the Hills driver was making is not prohibited, but it is not advisable. Any arrests are still under consideration.”
Hills driver ended up with significant jail time even though I believe he has actually only slowed down to near stationary and hadn’t even started turning to access the houses on the other side of the dual carriageway.
What tends to get overlooked is the negligence on the part of Highways in creating the central reservation gaps for the convenience of residents - which is fair enough if they don’t want to drive miles to a roundabout to get to their properties but they have an obligation to ensure they are safe or prohibit LGVs using them. Tellingly that gap in the reservation was blocked up after this accident but some of the others remain.
dieseldog999:
in which case at 5-20 am or indeed any other time then if he had been driving within his visions stopping distance there would have been no incident irrespective of if it was a tree, truck or anything else lying in the road.
if the truck had stalled,or broken down then the driver would be in the clear and the audi would have had some blame for not driving with due care.
In that case then, why are trucks sitting on the limiter along the M6, A66 or A75 (or any other unlit road) because they sure as hell won’t be stopping in time for anything lying in the road. You’re a bit of a hypocrite.
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hardly a hypocrite though thats nothing to do with me then as its seldom im sitting as slow as a 90k limiter anyway,and if they didnt have the limiters bypassed or fitted then they would most likely be going faster.which really has nothing to do with the kid in the audi not seeing a 60x40 foot truck across the road from 400 yards away.
and anyway,the only difference between trees, a dead sheep or a policeman lying across the road is most likely there will be skidmarks leading up to the tree and sheep.
dieseldog999:
in which case at 5-20 am or indeed any other time then if he had been driving within his visions stopping distance there would have been no incident irrespective of if it was a tree, truck or anything else lying in the road.
if the truck had stalled,or broken down then the driver would be in the clear and the audi would have had some blame for not driving with due care.
In that case then, why are trucks sitting on the limiter along the M6, A66 or A75 (or any other unlit road) because they sure as hell won’t be stopping in time for anything lying in the road. You’re a bit of a hypocrite.
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hardly a hypocrite though thats nothing to do with me then as its seldom im sitting as slow as a 90k limiter anyway,and if they didnt have the limiters bypassed or fitted then they would most likely be going faster.which really has nothing to do with the kid in the audi not seeing a 60x40 foot truck across the road from 400 yards away.
and anyway,the only difference between trees, a dead sheep or a policeman lying across the road is most likely there will be skidmarks leading up to the tree and sheep.
So you’re going to be able to react and stop your speeding truck within 400 yards?
well as of now its completely irrelevant as ive never had a problem in a lifetime of driving…looking where im going plays a major part in this process though.
in all my years,the only thing ive hit and ran over was a police dog.
seems to work well enough in a lhd also youtube.com/watch?v=vI9EIjUx20I
the trick is looking in the direction that your travelling .
Gidders:
About 10 years ago near South Elmsall a local coach driver was killed by colliding with a full size artic driven by a French guy attempting a U turn on the A638.When the case came to court the lorry driver failed to appear and was sentenced,in his absence,to jail for causing death by dangerous driving.He blamed the coach driver for failing to keep good observation and resisted all attempts to get him to return the the UK until he died a few years later due to an illness of some sort.
I think the foreign driver on that one pulled out of lay-by and set of driving on wrong side of road,coach collided on the bend head on just after the cafe(in lay-by).
Escaped justice and died of heart attack several years later,used to live in same village as coach driver,his widow campaigned for him to be brought back for punishment,was in all the national papers for a time,got done for driving without due care and attention instead of death by dangerous driving I believe but never returned to Britain.
dieseldog999:
crucified by a jury that will know absolutely nothing about truck driving and reality stopping distances,and a female judge that will know even less.
if the driver was rich his defence would have taken the jury out to the stainmore and 1 at a time had them come out in the passenger seat to turn right.
bus at usual its easy meat and the driver is penalised way ott.
your meant to be able to drive withing your stopping distance. a kid in an audi at 5-20 in the morn no doubt would have been a regular traveler on that road and should be aware of his surroundings and driving accordingly which obviously he wasnt,hence its his fault entirely.
x ray vision and being clairvoyant isnt part of a drivers dcp,and you can see blind spots easier at night because of headlights being used.
the kid wasnt observant enough and got killed due to that fact.
The jury did go out to Stainmore.
As someone said, female judge mixed with a jury who have no clue about trucks and you get a predictable outcome like this.
At that time of the morning I don’t think that anyone is quite as alert as they normally are later? Certainly ‘back in my day’ I saw more incidents on the road before (say) 10am before the brain has fully kicked in. When I learned to drive back in the dark ages 50 years ago my instructor banged on about “Always drive as though there may be an Elephant sitting in the road around the next bend” and I later realised what he meant; always be prepared for the totally unexpected. Obviously the lad didn’t anticipate a vehicle being in the position that it was but these things happen, sadly he wont get a second chance to learn from it.
dieseldog999:
crucified by a jury that will know absolutely nothing about truck driving and reality stopping distances,and a female judge that will know even less.
if the driver was rich his defence would have taken the jury out to the stainmore and 1 at a time had them come out in the passenger seat to turn right.
bus at usual its easy meat and the driver is penalised way ott.
your meant to be able to drive withing your stopping distance. a kid in an audi at 5-20 in the morn no doubt would have been a regular traveler on that road and should be aware of his surroundings and driving accordingly which obviously he wasnt,hence its his fault entirely.
x ray vision and being clairvoyant isnt part of a drivers dcp,and you can see blind spots easier at night because of headlights being used.
the kid wasnt observant enough and got killed due to that fact.
The jury did go out to Stainmore.
As someone said, female judge mixed with a jury who have no clue about trucks and you get a predictable outcome like this.
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i read that after i posted,but it it wasnt exactly realtime scenarios with plod having blocked the road so they could have a look.
slinging them 1 at a time into a truck turning right from the cafe in normal traffic telling them they wouldnt get their days expenses if they didnt get back to carlisle on time might have put a different outlook on things.but your quite correct as to your opinion.
Wheel Nut:
Stainmore Cafe and The Punch Bowl were the only safe refuge across the North Pennines
The Punch Bowl shut years ago, but there’s a lorry park at the bottom of the hill at Brough which you can access from both sides safely, and which was always my first choice when I was regularly running and doing nights out along that stretch of road.
Wheel Nut:
Stainmore Cafe and The Punch Bowl were the only safe refuge across the North Pennines
The Punch Bowl shut years ago, but there’s a lorry park at the bottom of the hill at Brough which you can access from both sides safely, and which was always my first choice when I was regularly running and doing nights out along that stretch of road.
A plural form of a past tense.
Both places are in a remote area and the road signs suggest caution, there was obviously none exercised that fateful morning.
dieseldog999:
crucified by a jury that will know absolutely nothing about truck driving and reality stopping distances,and a female judge that will know even less.
if the driver was rich his defence would have taken the jury out to the stainmore and 1 at a time had them come out in the passenger seat to turn right.
bus at usual its easy meat and the driver is penalised way ott.
your meant to be able to drive withing your stopping distance. a kid in an audi at 5-20 in the morn no doubt would have been a regular traveler on that road and should be aware of his surroundings and driving accordingly which obviously he wasnt,hence its his fault entirely.
x ray vision and being clairvoyant isnt part of a drivers dcp,and you can see blind spots easier at night because of headlights being used.
the kid wasnt observant enough and got killed due to that fact.
The jury did go out to Stainmore.
As someone said, female judge mixed with a jury who have no clue about trucks and you get a predictable outcome like this.
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i read that after i posted,but it it wasnt exactly realtime scenarios with plod having blocked the road so they could have a look.
slinging them 1 at a time into a truck turning right from the cafe in normal traffic telling them they wouldnt get their days expenses if they didnt get back to carlisle on time might have put a different outlook on things.but your quite correct as to your opinion.
Jurors visited the crash scene with a stretch of the A66 temporarily closed as police staged a reconstruction.
