We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one my friend. I think if we had a daily running total of all deaths and their causes we’d at first be shocked and then gradually numbed by the figures. Yeah certainly “500 people today died with Covid” seems at first glance shocking, but I absolutely guarantee that way more than 500 people died from other causes. The difference is that one is shouted out, the other is just accepted and unreported and therefore unremarkable.
the maoster:
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one my friend. I think if we had a daily running total of all deaths and their causes we’d at first be shocked and then gradually numbed by the figures. Yeah certainly “500 people today died with Covid” seems at first glance shocking, but I absolutely guarantee that way more than 500 people died from other causes. The difference is that one is shouted out, the other is just accepted and unreported and therefore unremarkable.
MacMillan say about 450 die from cancer every day.
Last May 800 or 900 were dying daily from C19.
.
Rightly lots of effort and money have been directed against cancer for years.
Do you want to give up fighting C19 after a few months?
Franglais:
But this damned virus is there, and the more people take it seriously, the more we can control it and it’ll be better for the majority of us in the long run.
Well, if you say so Franglais, it must be true, but many people are waking up to the fact that controlling the virus (preventing people getting it at all costs) just pushes the virus further down the line. I personally can’t see that economic disaster, cancer deaths and an uneducated youth are better in the long run.
Noremac:
… many people are waking up to the fact that controlling the virus (preventing people getting it at all costs) just pushes the virus further down the line. I personally can’t see that economic disaster, cancer deaths and an uneducated youth are better in the long run.
The experts are saying that the virus can only be deferred so I agree with you
It is more IF than WHEN regarding a vaccine
My personal thought is = let it loose but not so much that it overwhelms the NHS
Perhaps better to get it now then later when not as fit 
My personal thought is = let it loose but not so much that it overwhelms the NHS
Now that’s a tricky one Rog. How the hell would you even start to do that. It may not have crossed your mind but the majority do not want to catch the virus. 
I see the good old UK is using Covid like everything else as a bloody good excuse to cash in, and make a few quid out of the best of it,… like they do with every ■■■■■■■ thing else. 
No leeway or discretion for a certain takeaway burger shop in Iford, no, …absolute letter of the law, they done them to the tune of a grand 
Yep,.One THOUSAND pounds, for serving a guy his burger FOUR MINUTES after the curfew started.
How long does it take to do a burger?
So if they had managed to cook it 2 minutes earlier, and/or not add his onions and relish, they would have let them off, but then the public health outfit would have maybe been on them for a food poisoning rap.
Don’t you just love this country eh?
ROG:
Noremac:
… many people are waking up to the fact that controlling the virus (preventing people getting it at all costs) just pushes the virus further down the line. I personally can’t see that economic disaster, cancer deaths and an uneducated youth are better in the long run.The experts are saying that the virus can only be deferred so I agree with you
It is more IF than WHEN regarding a vaccine
We have had coronaviruses since the dawn of time and no vaccine has ever been found to combat them. Vaccines generally take around 15 years to develop and fully test to ensure they are safe yet the Government is talking about one being developed from scratch and ready to administer in under a year. Having grown up in the era of Thalidomide I certainly won’t be having one.
Harry Monk:
ROG:
Noremac:
… many people are waking up to the fact that controlling the virus (preventing people getting it at all costs) just pushes the virus further down the line. I personally can’t see that economic disaster, cancer deaths and an uneducated youth are better in the long run.The experts are saying that the virus can only be deferred so I agree with you
It is more IF than WHEN regarding a vaccine
We have had coronaviruses since the dawn of time and no vaccine has ever been found to combat them. Vaccines generally take around 15 years to develop and fully test to ensure they are safe yet the Government is talking about one being developed from scratch and ready to administer in under a year. Having grown up in the era of Thalidomide I certainly won’t be having one.
I’m with you, but odds on we will be virtually coerced into having it, bordering on being blackmailed.
You’ll get issued a certificate to verify it,.and only then be allowed to do whatever tf they decide …using that certificate as the criteria.
Foreign travel will be first on the list I reckon, so unless you’re willing to play along as a guinea pig, it’ll be bye bye to sunning yourself on a beach on your hard earned hols.
I’m with you, I’ll be a bit reticent to have it also, and also be concerned if any of my grown up kids decide to have it.
If it is rushed through, who really knows the potential hazards.
Way I see it is that it is (or should be) something we are just going to have to live with, and the level of sheltering yourself from it should be down to the individual.
If you feel the need to be walking around in a bio suit for the rest of your life, then crack on, but if you just want to try and carry on as normal as possible, but with a bit of consideration towards those who have underlying health issues, you should be allowed to, and do so without jumping through ■■■■ hoops like a performing seal every time you go out for a pint, or a curry.
As I said before I am totally and utterly ■■■■■■ off with it all,…people are obsessed!
Let’s just get on with it, deal with it, and live along side it, unfortunately that is what life has always been about…Survival of the fittest.
Just to clarify, I’m the wrong side of 55, and not famous for my athleticism, but I’m willing to take my chances with the rest, in order to LIVE the rest of my life, rather than endure it.
Harry Monk:
ROG:
Noremac:
… many people are waking up to the fact that controlling the virus (preventing people getting it at all costs) just pushes the virus further down the line. I personally can’t see that economic disaster, cancer deaths and an uneducated youth are better in the long run.The experts are saying that the virus can only be deferred so I agree with you
It is more IF than WHEN regarding a vaccine
We have had coronaviruses since the dawn of time and no vaccine has ever been found to combat them. Vaccines generally take around 15 years to develop and fully test to ensure they are safe yet the Government is talking about one being developed from scratch and ready to administer in under a year. Having grown up in the era of Thalidomide I certainly won’t be having one.
Harry Monk:
We have had coronaviruses since the dawn of time and no vaccine has ever been found to combat them
But to give a fuller picture:
Coronavirus was first recognized in animals in the late 1920s, and in humans in the 1960s. Recent human variants are SARS-CoV in 2003, HCoV NL63 in 2003, HCoV HKU1 in 2004, MERS-CoV in 2013. MERS and SARS are the only ones (plus C19) with potentially severe symptoms. In 7 years there were 2,500 cases and 850 deaths from MERS, so no surprize that no vaccine has been developed. SARS, had 8,000 cases and under 800 deaths. In the real world its hardly a surprise that there are no vaccines for them is it?
There are now 170 vaccines now to combat C19 in different stages of development.
theguardian.com/world/ng-in … e-be-ready
Thalidomide is not a vaccine of course, but was and continues to be an effective and safe drug when used correctly.
But it`s use to prevent morning sickness did definitely cause severe avoidable harm.
If you remember Thalidomide do you remember polio?
Polio, tetanus, flu, whooping cough, hep A, hep B, measles, rubella, mumps…
The effects of these viruses is being forgotten because of the success of vaccines.
Noremac:
Franglais:
But this damned virus is there, and the more people take it seriously, the more we can control it and it’ll be better for the majority of us in the long run.Well, if you say so Franglais, it must be true, but many people are waking up to the fact that controlling the virus (preventing people getting it at all costs) just pushes the virus further down the line. I personally can’t see that economic disaster, cancer deaths and an uneducated youth are better in the long run.
Who is saying “preventing people getting it at all costs”?
Not me, not the Gov, not anyone that I can see.
ROG:
My personal thought is = let it loose but not so much that it overwhelms the NHS
We ended the lockdown months ago. Didnt you notice? We are currently accepting a level of deaths to return some normality to the economy. There is a debate to be had about the level of preventive measures Id agree.
Drop more measures and the risk is a rise in transmission and unacceptable numbers of deaths again.
Delaying things is the current aim. And why not? With 170 vaccines in the pipeline I reckon we would be pretty ■■■■ unlucky if none were any good.
Franglais:
Who is saying “preventing people getting it at all costs”?
Not me, not the Gov, not anyone that I can see.
You know what a figure of speech is though, right?
Noremac:
Franglais:
Who is saying “preventing people getting it at all costs”?
Not me, not the Gov, not anyone that I can see.You know what a figure of speech is though, right?
Yep: “a word or phrase used in a non-literal sense for rhetorical or vivid effect”?
Just like
Noremac:
economic disaster, cancer deaths and an uneducated youth
Franglais:
Yep: “a word or phrase used in a non-literal sense for rhetorical or vivid effect”?
Just like…
Bang on dictionary definition. Might have known you couldn’t leave it though.
Noremac:
Franglais:
Yep: “a word or phrase used in a non-literal sense for rhetorical or vivid effect”?
Just like…Bang on dictionary definition. Might have known you couldn’t leave it though.
Couldnt leave it? Why would I want to? We are here for a bit of to and fro conversation arent we? Not just to make dramatic flourishes that go unchallenged, or unremarked.
Franglais:
But to give a fuller picture:
Coronavirus was first recognized in animals in the late 1920s, and in humans in the 1960s. Recent human variants are SARS-CoV in 2003, HCoV NL63 in 2003, HCoV HKU1 in 2004, MERS-CoV in 2013. MERS and SARS are the only ones (plus C19) with potentially severe symptoms. In 7 years there were 2,500 cases and 850 deaths from MERS, so no surprize that no vaccine has been developed. SARS, had 8,000 cases and under 800 deaths. In the real world its hardly a surprise that there are no vaccines for them is it?
There are now 170 vaccines now to combat C19 in different stages of development.
theguardian.com/world/ng-in … e-be-readyThalidomide is not a vaccine of course, but was and continues to be an effective and safe drug when used correctly.
But it`s use to prevent morning sickness did definitely cause severe avoidable harm.If you remember Thalidomide do you remember polio?
Polio, tetanus, flu, whooping cough, hep A, hep B, measles, rubella, mumps…
The effects of these viruses is being forgotten because of the success of vaccines.
Wow.
Franglais mate ffs ! , How, (or more to make my point…why,) do you know all this stuff.■■
I know Google is freely available, so I’m hoping you’ve looked it up to make a point of reply.
If not…and no offence, you appear to have an unhealthy (no pun intended) fascination with all this tedious Covid crap.
I found out in March to my own detriment, whilst trapped in the house on furlough with ■■■■ all else to do but watch tv…(and consequently be bombarded with Covid news, statistics of deaths and general ■■■■ gloom and depression ), that all this stuff gets in your head,.
So in my case, to avoid manic depression of sorts, I quickly cut myself off from it, not in a burying my head in the sand type of way, but to avoid becoming obsessed with it all.
Basically alll this stuff in your swede is enough to drive you around the ■■■■ twist mate !!
Have you not tried following football or something.?
In fact…Today Sky Sports Super Sunday, 3 games…fill yer Doc Martens… 
Or even stamp collecting or something.
In fact I think I like you better when you are pining for the EU and slagging off Boris.
Just saying like. 
robroy:
Franglais:
But to give a fuller picture:
Coronavirus was first recognized in animals in the late 1920s, and in humans in the 1960s. Recent human variants are SARS-CoV in 2003, HCoV NL63 in 2003, HCoV HKU1 in 2004, MERS-CoV in 2013. MERS and SARS are the only ones (plus C19) with potentially severe symptoms. In 7 years there were 2,500 cases and 850 deaths from MERS, so no surprize that no vaccine has been developed. SARS, had 8,000 cases and under 800 deaths. In the real world its hardly a surprise that there are no vaccines for them is it?
There are now 170 vaccines now to combat C19 in different stages of development.
theguardian.com/world/ng-in … e-be-readyThalidomide is not a vaccine of course, but was and continues to be an effective and safe drug when used correctly.
But it`s use to prevent morning sickness did definitely cause severe avoidable harm.If you remember Thalidomide do you remember polio?
Polio, tetanus, flu, whooping cough, hep A, hep B, measles, rubella, mumps…
The effects of these viruses is being forgotten because of the success of vaccines.
Franglais mate, how, (or more to make my point…why,) do you know all this stuff.■■
I know Google is freely available, so I’m hoping you’ve looked it up to make a point of reply.
If not…and no offence, you appear to have an unhealthy (no pun intended) fascination with all this tedious Covid crap.I found out in March to my own detriment, whilst trapped in the house on furlough with [zb] all else to do but watch tv…(and consequently be bombarded with Covid news, statistics of deaths and general [zb] gloom and depression
So in my case, to avoid manic depression of sorts, I quickly cut myself off from it, not in a burying my head in the sand type of way, but to avoid becoming obsessed with it all.Basically alll this stuff in your swede is enough to drive you around the [zb] twist mate !!
Have you not tried following football or something.?
In fact…Today Sky Sports Super Sunday, 3 games…fill yer Doc Martens…
Or even stamp collecting or something.
In fact I think I like you better when you are pining for the EU and slagging off Boris.Just saying like.
Hey, I can slag Boris off over C19 and Brexit, I can multitask!
.
I read a lot. Used to be all fiction, but more fact based now.
Footie is what someone plays with there mates on a chilly morning before a pint and a Sunday lunch.
Being “Billy no mates” I don`t care!
I read a brilliant book a few years back about Andrew Wakefield (the struck off doctor) and the MMR vaccine stuff.
That obviously goes into what viruses and vaccines are about, then some more about “evidence based medicine” the stats behind the analysis of said medicine, which leads to off shoots in psychology, stats etc etc.
As it happens Ive no problems wi maswede. Im perfectly sane.
The hospital gave me a certificate saying so when they discharged me!
EDIT to add:
Bad Science by Ben Goldacre… excellent book.
And check the Bad Science site too.
Well whatever floats your boat mate 
My reading passion is WW1 and 2 history.
Way I see it, even reading about stuff like the ‘Final Solution’ and the massacre on The Somme, which are both pretty grim subject matter, compared to reading about Covid and death threatening plagues, and medical solutions , imo is like the difference between listening to The Carpenters and Marilyn Manson in terms of what it does to your well being.
If you are genuinely a Billy no mates, (although I doubt it ) …maybe it’s down to the interests that you pursue…
Heck Robroy - You poked old Franglais with a metaphorical stick and woke the poor old duffer up. Just as we were settling in for a quiet Sunday.
Quick nurse - The screens …
OwenMoney:
Heck Robroy - You poked old Franglais with a metaphorical stick and woke the poor old duffer up. Just as we were settling in for a quiet Sunday.Quick nurse - The screens …
You’ll need more than screens mate, full face visors, scrubs masks and hand sanitizer, (ask Franglais, he knows much more about this stuff than me. )
Let me know what he says while I’m in the boozer watching the Liverpool game tonight with the rest of the Covid risking guys who are totally ■■■■■■ off to ■■■■ with all this stuff, and are trying to lead a normal life…(even if you do have to wear your mask everytime you go to the ■■■■ bog ! . )
