Is it Valance with the money invested in a pharma company you mean?
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Valance is not in a position to make contracts or give Gov funds to pharma companies I believe.
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As an expert in medicines and pharma would you expect him to invest in a phsrma company or choose between Volvo or Scania to place his pension fund?
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It’s a good thing to look at whether anyone has self interest, but not to get hung up on it.
Not when you are one of the advisors pushing project fear. Keep the scaremongering going, sell the population that you MUST have the vaccination to continue a normal life…KERCHING your £600k now becomes £6 million. Hell I might even invest myself going by the way you gullible fools keep defending the official guidlines
I haven’t blindly defended the “Official Guidelines”, ie the Gov guidelines.
I have consistently said there is a real problem, and social distancing is necessary. At the beginning I was sceptical about mask wearing, but I’m now convinced (If used correctly) they are better used than not.
The Gov is truly making a cockup of all of this, but that doesn’t mean distancing, isolation, lock down, masks, aren’t valuable and necessary tools.
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Those carrying on believing idiots who say it’s all a hoax, will continue to put others at risk.
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Maybe the odd few don’t wear a mask etc and think it is all a hoax, but most people are quite happy to play lip service to the measures, even if they don’t think they are all justifiable. The issue at the moment is that further restrictive measures are being considered for reintroduction. At this point, with a second wave beginning, it has become clear that the virus is not going away, so the strategy has to change at some point.
As the MP who travelled to London after taking a test demonstrated, human nature dictates that despite us knowing and understanding the rules, we don’t think it is going to happen to us and we will draw conclusions from the fact that we feel fine, so can’t have the virus etc etc. It is also the case that some elderly folks may not be up to speed with the restrictions, such as the publicised Mr Johnson snr. This kind of human error is a fact of life. Economic factors will also mean that people simply won’t isolate when they should. Again, human nature dictates this.
The Gov is truly making a cockup of all of this, but that doesn’t mean distancing, isolation, lock down, masks, aren’t valuable and necessary tools.
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Those carrying on believing idiots who say it’s all a hoax, will continue to put others at risk.
I don’t have a problem believing that Covid is real, I don’t much care where it came from, if it’s natural, man made or whatever. My problem is and always was the unbelievable overreaction to it. We’ve got rolling 24hour news giving us minute by minute updates on deaths. Leaving aside anything else then that in itself is project fear.
My big fear was that the cure would be far worse than the disease, that has come to pass. Only yesterday I heard a report stating that over 1 million breast x rays have been cancelled which will result in over 9000 cases of breast cancer going undetected and untreated until it is too late. Spousal abuse is up by over 70%, suicide is up by 25%, this morning I heard on the news that the number of children phoning abuse helplines is up by 49%.
Now yes, Covid can kill a tiny percentage of people who contract it, but try telling those who’ve lost loved ones to untreated testicular, pancreatic or prostate cancer, or indeed anyone beaten to death by their partner just how serious Covid is. Serious enough to put the world on hold? Not on your bloody Nelly is it.
the maoster:
I don’t have a problem believing that Covid is real, I don’t much care where it came from, if it’s natural, man made or whatever. My problem is and always was the unbelievable overreaction to it. We’ve got rolling 24hour news giving us minute by minute updates on deaths. Leaving aside anything else then that in itself is project fear.
My big fear was that the cure would be far worse than the disease, that has come to pass. Only yesterday I heard a report stating that over 1 million breast x rays have been cancelled which will result in over 9000 cases of breast cancer going undetected and untreated until it is too late. Spousal abuse is up by over 70%, suicide is up by 25%, this morning I heard on the news that the number of children phoning abuse helplines is up by 49%.
Now yes, Covid can kill a tiny percentage of people who contract it, but try telling those who’ve lost loved ones to untreated testicular, pancreatic or prostate cancer, or indeed anyone beaten to death by their partner just how serious Covid is. Serious enough to put the world on hold? Not on your bloody Nelly is it.
You’re asking the right questions.
I think you’re coming up with some wrong answers.
9,000 delayed breast x-ray does not mean 9,000 extra fatalities.
The screening process is getting under way again.
6,000 suicides year? 1500 extra? Against the over 40,000 C19 so far this year.
The experts have stated that Covid 19 can only be deferred and the PM stated in March that they were only introducing UK lockdown to flatten the curve so that the NHS could cope - he did not say that would reduce this virus overall
The Govt strategy is all based on WHEN we get a vaccine not a realistic IF we get a vaccine
It is really obvious that the opening of schools is the main underlying cause of this current spike because it started to rise in Scotland a few weeks before England - Scottish schools went back in August and England in September
The graphs produced by the ONS clearly show this
What other major unlocking events took place in these countries apart from schools if anyone says it is not schools
If the Govt thinks we are going to be fooled into thinking this jump is due to youngsters partying then they must think we are all thick
Franglais:
9,000 delayed breast x-ray does not mean 9,000 extra fatalities.
Not 9000 delayed screenings my friend; 1 million postponed screenings! How many postponed prostate exams? I have no idea. MIND recently released the results of a survey which said that 1 in 5 under 16’s have seriously considered suicide as a result of watching the Covid rolling news! Staggering. As I said earlier and still maintain we are witnessing a cure far far more fatal than the disease.
Franglais, you also say over 40k deaths from Covid. Obviously I appreciate that you are taking your figures from official statistics, but my point is “from” and “with” are two massively different things. Although apparently they are getting lumped together under the Covid blanket. I’m sure the figures are available but it would be interesting to see how many died “from” Covid with no previously reported health issues? Also, as post mortems are not being carried out then no previous health issues doesn’t necessarily mean that underlying health issues weren’t present but merely undiagnosed.
Over one million dead worldwide so far is extremely serious and it ain’t over.
The problem with Covid is it is extremely contagious where as cancer etc is not. Cancer patients are still being treated but of course there is a back log because the NHS has been so busy treating Covid patients. Unfortunately what some don’t seem realise is because of their flouting the rules they are the ones partly to blame for the delays.
I am fairly certain all those who have lost loved ones through covid don’t think it’s a over reaction trying to slow the spread.
ROG:
The experts have stated that Covid 19 can only be deferred and the PM stated in March that they were only introducing UK lockdown to flatten the curve so that the NHS could cope - he did not say that would reduce this virus overall
The Govt strategy is all based on WHEN we get a vaccine not a realistic IF we get a vaccine
It is really obvious that the opening of schools is the main underlying cause of this current spike because it started to rise in Scotland a few weeks before England - Scottish schools went back in August and England in September
The graphs produced by the ONS clearly show this
What other major unlocking events took place in these countries apart from schools if anyone says it is not schools
If the Govt thinks we are going to be fooled into thinking this jump is due to youngsters partying then they must think we are all thick
I have two friends who are school teachers back in Scotland. Since the schools have reopened there have been very few cases in schools and almost all contributed by teachers bringing it in from outside. Nicola is adamant the main spread is caused by households mixing and most would agree with that.
It is not the cases IN SCHOOLS which is the issue - it is schoolkids bringing it home and into the community asymptomatically which is why I said the underlying issue is with the schools opening
ROG:
It is not the cases IN SCHOOLS which is the issue - it is schoolkids bringing it home and into the community asymptomatically which is why I said the underlying issue is with the schools opening
Well that is not happening in Scotland from what I believe and I think England is much the same. It’s the teachers catching the virus and not the kids according to Nicola.
ROG:
It is not the cases IN SCHOOLS which is the issue - it is schoolkids bringing it home and into the community asymptomatically which is why I said the underlying issue is with the schools opening
Well that is not happening in Scotland from what I believe and I think England is much the same. It’s the teachers catching the virus and not the kids according to Nicola.
The teachers are older so are much more likely to show symptoms
I wonder who gave the teachers the virus and showed no symptoms themselves !!
Franglais:
9,000 delayed breast x-ray does not mean 9,000 extra fatalities.
Not 9000 delayed screenings my friend; 1 million postponed screenings! How many postponed prostate exams? I have no idea. MIND recently released the results of a survey which said that 1 in 5 under 16’s have seriously considered suicide as a result of watching the Covid rolling news! Staggering. As I said earlier and still maintain we are witnessing a cure far far more fatal than the disease.
Yes I misposted.
(Is that a word?)
Sorry.
What I meant is that, from your figures, 9000 cases may not have been detected in the screening system.
(Nice to see you accepting projections and estimates as fact now)
That doesn’t mean those cases will never get picked up. That doesn’t mean those 9,000 cases will all end badly.
It does mean the screening system isn’t working as well as it should, and yes, there will be consequences.
Some of the cancer treatments have been suspended or altered because the patient’s immune system is so depleted any contact with a C19 carrier would end badly.
It is worse for some to get treatment when C19 is out there, than not. Counter intuitive maybe.
It isn’t true to say all cancer diagnosis has stopped. Those with symptoms are being encouraged to talk to Drs to decide if an examination is needed. Screening is not the same as having a big lump.
There are other “routine treatments” being delayed. And some of them cause great distress to those involved. Like most people, I do know some who are affected in this way. It is obviously awful for every individual.
But this damned virus is there, and the more people take it seriously, the more we can control it and it’ll be better for the majority of us in the long run.
the maoster:
Franglais, you also say over 40k deaths from Covid. Obviously I appreciate that you are taking your figures from official statistics, but my point is “from” and “with” are two massively different things. Although apparently they are getting lumped together under the Covid blanket. I’m sure the figures are available but it would be interesting to see how many died “from” Covid with no previously reported health issues? Also, as post mortems are not being carried out then no previous health issues doesn’t necessarily mean that underlying health issues weren’t present but merely undiagnosed.
I’ve put a link elsewhere about with/from. I’ll copy it though again it you want.
ROG:
It is not the cases IN SCHOOLS which is the issue - it is schoolkids bringing it home and into the community asymptomatically which is why I said the underlying issue is with the schools opening
Well that is not happening in Scotland from what I believe and I think England is much the same. It’s the teachers catching the virus and not the kids according to Nicola.
The teachers are older so are much more likely to show symptoms
I wonder who gave the teachers the virus and showed no symptoms themselves !!
Can’t be certain but from what Nicola says the teachers are picking it up when outside the school rather than inside the school. Apparently from meeting other households which is why they have changed the rules on that. That is coming from the people that study the nature of the virus and not the politicians so I don’t see any reason for them to lie.
@Maoster
More Or Less talking about “died with” and "“died from”. Also current figures.
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And previously didnt you say “no post mortems being carried out”?
Where is that from please?
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Edit forgot the link!
More or Less - ‘Record’ Covid cases, Trump on the death count, and ant pheromones - @bbcradio4bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000mywc
Franglais:
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And previously didnt you say “no post mortems being carried out”?
Where is that from please?
Karen from Facebook obviously!
Actually you are correct in your intimation, I did some research (aren’t you proud of me now? ) and it seems that limited numbers of autopsies are being carried out, EXCEPT when they (the coroner) are certain that Covid was the cause of death. I’ll concede that point, but it does raise a few "what ifs ".
Franglais:
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And previously didnt you say “no post mortems being carried out”?
Where is that from please?
Karen from Facebook obviously!
Actually you are correct in your intimation, I did some research (aren’t you proud of me now? ) and it seems that limited numbers of autopsies are being carried out, EXCEPT when they (the coroner) are certain that Covid was the cause of death. I’ll concede that point, but it does raise a few "what ifs ".
Next lesson coming up!
If a number of teens feel suicidal because of C19, is that more or less than feel suicidal because their girl friend left them yesterday?
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Ever listened to Morrisey or Radiohead? And they ain’t teens.
OK, I’m being flip about a serious subject, but you’ll get the drift.
You say you’re sceptical of surveys?
Well I’m sure MIND are a genuinely concerned group of honest people, but I would still look twice at what they say.
No doubt lockdown has many effects and precious few are good, and yes, we need to be balanced about those side effects, but for myself I think the direct effects of COVID are still worse.
Franglais:
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And previously didnt you say “no post mortems being carried out”?
Where is that from please?
Karen from Facebook obviously!
Actually you are correct in your intimation, I did some research (aren’t you proud of me now? ) and it seems that limited numbers of autopsies are being carried out, EXCEPT when they (the coroner) are certain that Covid was the cause of death. I’ll concede that point, but it does raise a few "what ifs ".
Next lesson coming up!
If a number of teens feel suicidal because of C19, is that more or less than feel suicidal because their girl friend left them yesterday?
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Ever listened to Morrisey or Radiohead? And they ain’t teens.
OK, I’m being flip about a serious subject, but you’ll get the drift.
You say you’re sceptical of surveys?
Well I’m sure MIND are a genuinely concerned group of honest people, but I would still look twice at what they say.
No doubt lockdown has many effects and precious few are good, and yes, we need to be balanced about those side effects, but for myself I think the direct effects of COVID are still worse.
I hope no young member of your family commits suicide and you get to see at first hand the devastation it leaves behind, watch family members become a shadow of their former selves constantly questioning where they went wrong even if they did all they could.
For whatever reasons mental health issues are rising amongst the young and is a constant worry for those of us with young children and not helped by societies attitude towards it, suicide is one of the biggest causes of death amongst young men and the figures are not going down and glib comments by older members of society do not help in the least.
