Diamond Optare bus, having just left the new bus station in Wigan town centre,
and is turning right from King Street West, onto Wallgate (A49), on route 607
to Ashton Heath. I think this bus is “Diesel-Electric”. Ray Smyth.
In the 60`s, a small part of Aldenham Works was taken by British Leyland to combine all their Truck
maintenance facilities for the London area so the service departments of A.E.C Southall, Scammell
Watford, Leyland/Albion Willesden [ I think ] were all under one roof. It was run by A.E.C. & A.E.C.
World Spares were also on site. At one time every available space was taken up on the perimeter
road with L.T.s ill fated Swifts & Merlins, awaiting union agreement, operational changes, various
modifications or other deciding factors or possibly Divine Intervention before their fate was ultimately
decided. I was a fitter for A.E.C. in what was called the Light Section, where we did everything
except major engine work or chassis changes, mostly on A.E.C. vehicles or A.E.C. powered with
the occasional Leyland thrown in [ or out ]. I left in 1970 Siddle C Cook in my homeland was calling
& the Swifts & Merlins were still in residence. Must say, L.T. had a good canteen.
pushrod47
pushrod47:
In the 60`s, a small part of Aldenham Works was taken by British Leyland to combine all their Truck
maintenance facilities for the London area so the service departments of A.E.C Southall, Scammell
Watford, Leyland/Albion Willesden [ I think ] were all under one roof. It was run by A.E.C. & A.E.C.
World Spares were also on site. At one time every available space was taken up on the perimeter
road with L.T.s ill fated Swifts & Merlins, awaiting union agreement, operational changes, various
modifications or other deciding factors or possibly Divine Intervention before their fate was ultimately
decided. I was a fitter for A.E.C. in what was called the Light Section, where we did everything
except major engine work or chassis changes, mostly on A.E.C. vehicles or A.E.C. powered with
the occasional Leyland thrown in [ or out ]. I left in 1970 Siddle C Cook in my homeland was calling
& the Swifts & Merlins were still in residence. Must say, L.T. had a good canteen.
pushrod47
It must have been a great place to work at the time , i’ve just watched the video again and the cost to set it up must have been huge , then the refurb costs for each bus.No wonder the RMs lasted so long .But after the initial set up costs were taken out of the equation i wonder if it was cheaper to refurb than scrap and buy new. Having said that the RMs had no successor so they carried on for an extra 40 years . The end of the RMs was the start of the throw away era for London buses
api.parliament.uk/historic-hans … l-vehicles
This is a very long and interesting article on Park Royal closing and debated in Parliment
Hope the link works
ramone:
It must have been a great place to work at the time , i’ve just watched the video again and the cost to set it up must have been huge , then the refurb costs for each bus.No wonder the RMs lasted so long .But after the initial set up costs were taken out of the equation i wonder if it was cheaper to refurb than scrap and buy new. Having said that the RMs had no successor so they carried on for an extra 40 years . The end of the RMs was the start of the throw away era for London buses
Maybe a contradictory mish mash of an intensive maintenance regime being turned into what was effectively a remanufacturing operation.Party based on the RT/RM’s simplicity of maintenance.Thereby compromising the continuing viability of the product and the production facilities themselves and the resulting loss of continuing manufacturer product support for it.As cav has said previously major mechanical components have a limit on reconditioning viability at which point new components then have to be fed into that maintenance regime.But the production operation for spares also needs a viable new vehicle production and sales regime to make their production viable.So you can have the best refurb/remanufacturing facility possible but that won’t be any use if in doing so you’ve taken out the manufacture of new replacement vehicles and parts.As stated I think the RM was withdrawn from production far too soon,not helped by LT relying too much on remanufacture of existing vehicles,thereby also wrecking the future viability of AEC’s PSV division at least.When it probably would have been possible and cheaper to create a far more new vehicle production friendly compromise between maintenance and vehicle replacement regime.Which would have provided the best of all worlds of keeping the RM in viable production.With the win win that LT could still have taken maximum advantage of its relative simplicity in terms of maintenance and reliability compared to Swift and DMS etc.
This Saturday, 7th December, sees the annual Ensignbus Vintage Bus Running Day, centred upon primarily Lakeside but also Bluewater and Brentwood. The Timetable along with the destinations served is in the link. If careful attention is paid to the timetable it is possible to pick up at a destination, but care must be taken because there can be significant delays caused by traffic which might make relying on connecting to the last bus to get back to one’s car a trifle dodgy. There will likely be something in the region of 20 - 30 different buses in service. There is normally a reveal of the latest restoration. As usual the Newmans put on an excellent event. I can thoroughly recommend the day out.
Carryfast:
ramone:
It must have been a great place to work at the time , i’ve just watched the video again and the cost to set it up must have been huge , then the refurb costs for each bus.No wonder the RMs lasted so long .But after the initial set up costs were taken out of the equation i wonder if it was cheaper to refurb than scrap and buy new. Having said that the RMs had no successor so they carried on for an extra 40 years . The end of the RMs was the start of the throw away era for London busesMaybe a contradictory mish mash of an intensive maintenance regime being turned into what was effectively a remanufacturing operation.Party based on the RT/RM’s simplicity of maintenance.Thereby compromising the continuing viability of the product and the production facilities themselves and the resulting loss of continuing manufacturer product support for it.As cav has said previously major mechanical components have a limit on reconditioning viability at which point new components then have to be fed into that maintenance regime.But the production operation for spares also needs a viable new vehicle production and sales regime to make their production viable.So you can have the best refurb/remanufacturing facility possible but that won’t be any use if in doing so you’ve taken out the manufacture of new replacement vehicles and parts.As stated I think the RM was withdrawn from production far too soon,not helped by LT relying too much on remanufacture of existing vehicles,thereby also wrecking the future viability of AEC’s PSV division at least.When it probably would have been possible and cheaper to create a far more new vehicle production friendly compromise between maintenance and vehicle replacement regime.Which would have provided the best of all worlds of keeping the RM in viable production.With the win win that LT could still have taken maximum advantage of its relative simplicity in terms of maintenance and reliability compared to Swift and DMS etc.
I think Leyland would have put a stop to it before it started as all AEC double decker production ceased in (I think) 1968. They had already developed the rear engined Routemaster but the group had the Atlanteen , Bristol and Daimler Fleetline in their line up.
The second link may be of interest to you if you have time to read it , Leyland management getting a roasting in Parliament for blaming the workforce for closures.
ramone:
The second link may be of interest to you if you have time to read it , Leyland management getting a roasting in Parliament for blaming the workforce for closures.
It certainly is interesting in vindicating much of what I’ve said elsewhere about the scapegoating of the workforce while that also applied to many different sectors of our manufacturing industry and I was certainly well aware of similar demoralisation taking place at Scammell and Bedford and even to an extent my own employers all of us knowing that the writing was on the wall.I was made redundant in the May of 1980 in the first round of redundancies.Followed by the closure of our factory a few years later.The remaining workforce having been told that the cut backs would help to ensure its future which was obviously lies.Although my view is that parliament was also being misled as to the real agenda which was all about the deliberate run down of our domestic industrial capacity to the benefit of imports and/or foreign takeover of what we had left.As shown by Pavitt thinking that the problem was Leyland’s management when the real question is why was public money being thrown at Leyland Group while at the same time it was being deliberately run down.With the flood gates opened to the benefit of foreign imports and foreign ‘cooperation’.Which ironically seems to have gone along the lines of Leyland Group truck division sold out to DAF and Leyland Group buses and GM Trucks sold out to the interests of Volvo.
IE a state funded hidden gradual exit strategy to avoid a hard landing for the bankers and investors ?.
While the fact that RT’s were still needed in service into the late 1970’s seems to confirm the idea that production of the RM was ceased prematurely,laughably so.
Lancashire United Transport AEC, fleet number 292 at Hope Street bus station in Wigan.
I think that the bodywork was by Alexander. At the rear is an Albion Lowlander from the
Wigan depot of Ribble on route 352/362, Wigan to St Helens. NMP Ray Smyth.
Ray Smyth:
Lancashire United Transport AEC, fleet number 292 at Hope Street bus station in Wigan.
I think that the bodywork was by Plaxton. At the rear is an Albion Lowlander from the
Wigan depot of Ribble on route 352/362, Wigan to St Helens. NMP Ray Smyth.
The bodywork on the Swift is by Alexander’s.
The Ensignbus Vintage Running Day was as usual a great success. The two featured from Ensign’s facebook page were probably the stars of the show. The St Helens RT was still being worked upon this morning before its debut. The standard of work and detail on Ensign’s restorations is simply stunning.
cav551:
The Ensignbus Vintage Running Day was as usual a great success. The two featured from Ensign’s facebook page were probably the stars of the show. The St Helens RT was still being worked upon this morning before its debut. The standard of work and detail on Ensign’s restorations is simply stunning.
To the point of what looks like an original carbon tet fire extinguisher in the FXT 183 example ?.That must have been a nightmare to find with them being taken out of service long ago on grounds of its toxicity.
Dennis Javelin:
Ray Smyth:
Lancashire United Transport AEC, fleet number 292 at Hope Street bus station in Wigan.
I think that the bodywork was by Plaxton. At the rear is an Albion Lowlander from the
Wigan depot of Ribble on route 352/362, Wigan to St Helens. NMP Ray Smyth.The bodywork on the Swift is by Alexander’s.
Dennis, Thank you for your comment. I was probably mixing it up with some single deck buses that were with
L.U.T. that I believe were bodied by Plaxton of Scarborough, perhaps their Bristol RE vehicles ? Regards, Ray.
Carryfast:
To the point of what looks like an original carbon tet fire extinguisher in the FXT 183 example ?.That must have been a nightmare to find with them being taken out of service long ago on grounds of its toxicity.
Yes these old brass fire extinguishers are very much sought after, there are a reasonable number of preserved vehicles with them. I am pretty sure none of them are in working condition, with vehicles carrying modern extiguishers, but since they were fitted right up until the end of RM production owners of preserved examples like to have one in its place in the cab. A lot of these sort of rare detail features change hands on ebay for significant amounts of money.
One of the vehicles taking part yesterday is just a run of the mill member of the fleet, however RT624 was the very last RT to run into Barking garage when the type was withdrawn from service in 1979
All of the vehicles taking part yesterday, some of which are guest vehicles, would have been running on an operator’s licence, would have been : Class VI tested, have a valid COIF, submitted for a PMI by Ensign’s workshop beforehand and would have carried a first aid kit and fire extiguisher in date and clearly marked BS EN 3.
Although it hasn’t been updated recently, the Ensign vintage blog is worth a read to see the ongoing saga of various restorations and the amount of work required to keep what is a working private hire fleet up to scratch. It also makes clear that although the majority of the fleet is ex LT there is a significant number of vehicles from other operators either completed or under restoration. Vehicles have been repatriated from the USA, Canada and Australia.
Going back a bit at Crystal Palace.
Oily
Carryfast:
cav551:
The Ensignbus Vintage Running Day was as usual a great success. The two featured from Ensign’s facebook page were probably the stars of the show. The St Helens RT was still being worked upon this morning before its debut. The standard of work and detail on Ensign’s restorations is simply stunning.To the point of what looks like an original carbon tet fire extinguisher in the FXT 183 example ?.That must have been a nightmare to find with them being taken out of service long ago on grounds of its toxicity.
Plenty of those extinguishers around, I have a few of them and, until I emptied them, they were still full and sealed. Usually make around a tenner on stalls at shows although chrome ones and if they still have the cradle they fetch a bit more. You can still get the transfers for them if they are damaged.
Pete.
oiltreader:
Hi cav551, to me just a picture, to you it will mean something with your knowledge of LT.
Oily
Thank you for both of those excellently clear pictures. Bought as trial batch of 50 vehicles the Leyland Atlantean had a short life in LT ownership. This below is the particular bus history from Ian’s Bus Stop site: The transfer of “XA30” and others to East Grinstead had two purposes, to see how the Atlantean coped with a lighter workload in Country area useage and to swap a batch of Fleetlines to Central area useage to see how they coped with the more arduous Central area which had caused problems for the Atlantean.
LT was to buy Fleetlines for the Central area, which they managed to turn into an abject failure because of their meddling with the engineering specification. Ultimately at the last knockings a surprising substitution of Iveco power for Leyland and Gardner produced a bus which worked reliably. After the split London Country successfully bought and ran the Atlantean, something the central area was unable to do.
XA 30 CUV 30C 8/65 FW new, delivered to Fulwell for storage
10/65 HT change store (Highgate)
11/65 CF into service on 24 (Chalk Farm)
6/66 AR transfer for 76, 34B (Tottenham)
5/67 EG transfer for 424, 435, 438C (East Grinstead)
1968 EG
3/69 SF transfer (Stamford Hill)
7/69 SF to Aldenham overhaul
11/69 converted to omo
11/69 NX from o/h, unlicensed (New Cross)
1/70 NX trainer…
1/70 PM transfer for P3 (omo) (Peckham)
1971 PM
12/72 PM repaint
1/73 PM withdrawn into store (Peckham)
3/73 sold to China Bus Company, Hong Kong
BD 1343 Hong Kong registration