Buses, coaches, & lorries

[lawrence_dunbar]

Hi Tyneside, IIRC There is a firm called Wrights based at Smiles for Miles old depot at Blucher who run coaches, Regards Larry.

[smallcoal]

Some South Wales buses llynfi were a big player on school contracts in the 70,s & 80,s also national express,and South Wales transport

[nickb67]

tyneside:
Two shots from Marlborough St, Station. Anyone know if Wrights are still operating ■■?

Lawrence Dunbar:
Hi Tyneside, IIRC There is a firm called Wrights based at Smiles for Miles old depot at Blucher who run coaches, Regards Larry.

Presume they’ll be Wrights of Nenthead.

[tyneside]

nickb67:

tyneside:
Two shots from Marlborough St, Station. Anyone know if Wrights are still operating ■■?

Lawrence Dunbar:
Hi Tyneside, IIRC There is a firm called Wrights based at Smiles for Miles old depot at Blucher who run coaches, Regards Larry.

Presume they’ll be Wrights of Nenthead.

thanks for the replies. The Wrights I remember came from the Alston area so Nenthead would probably fit with that.

Tyneside

[cav551]

ramone:

smallcoal:
Taken at llancayo farm usk

A Leyland badge on a Routemaster , has it been repowered?

In spite of its close relationship with aec London Transport had a dual sourcing policy in case of production difficulties. The organisation had inherited TD1s and ordered TD4s pre war. The TD4s had impressed the Company. When peace came after WW2 the fleet was in a parlous state, practically every vehicle was worn out either bodily or mechanically or both. The number of vehicles required far exceeded AEC’s ability to meet LT’s requirements; this resulted in the large fleet of PD2/1 RTLs and PD2/3 RTWs. At the outset of Routemaster design there was a clear intention for Leyland to be involved in the project. Two of the prototype RMs were Leyland powered ’ both also featuring a unique Leyland final drive. When one of these units failed RM3 was robbed to keep the coach version prototype running while LT waited for Leyland to manufacture a replacement specially. Once production started RM 632 was sent to Leyland as a pilot vehicle for the projected order. In total not far short of 600 RMs were produced with Leyland engines. The Leyland powered buses were spread throughout the fleet although garages tended to be either Leyland or AEC predominantly. Mortlake Garage in particular is always associated with a very smart Leyland RM fleet. By the 1980s LT had embarked on an RM withdrwal programme in which the Leyland buses featured significantly. The Leyland engines were slightly less popular with drivers - too noisy - and the engineeering staff - certain engine intermediate level replacement tasks particualrly with auxilaries, being more difficult and time consuming. In spite of this there was practically nothing to choose between the two engines in other respects, the Leylands were slowly withdrawn along with those vehicles with Simms electrical equipment because LT wished to reduce its stock holding of non standard parts.

The LT overhaul system is a complicated issue, however in a nutshell Bonnet numbers( RM**) and registration numbers were transferred from a vehicle arriving for overhaul onto one ready to depart to garages as a completed vehicle. This resulted in the two Leyland batches emerging having wildly different bonnet and reg nos. There were also engine changes in garages when one make came out and the other went in; this having been designed as a simple procedure with the engine arriving being fitted with all required parts. There were never any Leyland RMLs although RM 3 was initially given the Bonnet number RML 3. So far no one has managed to fit a Leyland 680 into a Routemaster reputedly because of sump crankshaft combination clearance issues with the front suspension cross member. Numerous other engines are known to have been fitted: Iveco, ■■■■■■■■ Scania, DAF, Ashok Leyland, Caterpillar, Paccar, Gardner and the latest to emerge in Germany is M.A.N. All of these transplants require additional work. Given the chance I would like to try a Detroit 671.

[erf-ngc-european]

cav551:

ramone:

smallcoal:
Taken at llancayo farm usk

A Leyland badge on a Routemaster , has it been repowered?

In spite of its close relationship with aec London Transport had a dual sourcing policy in case of production difficulties. The organisation had inherited TD1s and ordered TD4s pre war. The TD4s had impressed the Company. When peace came after WW2 the fleet was in a parlous state, practically every vehicle was worn out either bodily or mechanically or both. The number of vehicles required far exceeded AEC’s ability to meet LT’s requirements; this resulted in the large fleet of PD2/1 RTLs and PD2/3 RTWs. At the outset of Routemaster design there was a clear intention for Leyland to be involved in the project. Two of the prototype RMs were Leyland powered ’ both also featuring a unique Leyland final drive. When one of these units failed RM3 was robbed to keep the coach version prototype running while LT waited for Leyland to manufacture a replacement specially. Once production started RM 632 was sent to Leyland as a pilot vehicle for the projected order. In total not far short of 600 RMs were produced with Leyland engines. The Leyland powered buses were spread throughout the fleet although garages tended to be either Leyland or AEC predominantly. Mortlake Garage in particular is always associated with a very smart Leyland RM fleet. By the 1980s LT had embarked on an RM withdrwal programme in which the Leyland buses featured significantly. The Leyland engines were slightly less popular with drivers - too noisy - and the engineeering staff - certain engine intermediate level replacement tasks particualrly with auxilaries, being more difficult and time consuming. In spite of this there was practically nothing to choose between the two engines in other respects, the Leylands were slowly withdrawn along with those vehicles with Simms electrical equipment because LT wished to reduce its stock holding of non standard parts.

The LT overhaul system is a complicated issue, however in a nutshell Bonnet numbers( RM**) and registration numbers were transferred from a vehicle arriving for overhaul onto one ready to depart to garages as a completed vehicle. This resulted in the two Leyland batches emerging having wildly different bonnet and reg nos. There were also engine changes in garages when one make came out and the other went in; this having been designed as a simple procedure with the engine arriving being fitted with all required parts. There were never any Leyland RMLs although RM 3 was initially given the Bonnet number RML 3. So far no one has managed to fit a Leyland 680 into a Routemaster reputedly because of sump crankshaft combination clearance issues with the front suspension cross member. Numerous other engines are known to have been fitted: Iveco, ■■■■■■■■ Scania, DAF, Ashok Leyland, Caterpillar, Paccar, Gardner and the latest to emerge in Germany is M.A.N. All of these transplants require additional work. Given the chance I would like to try a Detroit 671.

What a wonderful reply! . Robert

[valkyrie]

Tyneside:
Not my pictures Tyneside

TruckNetUK . Old Time Lorries . Buses,Motorcoaches & Lorries . Page 37 or 38 . Tuesday,29th October,2019 .
VALKYRIE .

Thanks for the photographs Tyneside The caption for the first photograph below dates the time as ‘April 1938’,
but this bus actually dates from May 1948! It is one of a batch of ten Daimler CVD6/Northern Coachbuilders
Double Decker Buses for the Sheffield Joint Omnibus Commitee - B Fleet:-

Daimler CVD6/NCB = Northern Coachbuilders H30/26R Double Decker Omnibus,Chassis No.15848,KWE 31,Sheffield,May 1948,Sheffield Joint Omnibus Commitee - JOC,B,No.131.1#

The Daimler CVD6/Willowbrook Single Decker Bus below is one of a batch of ten bought by Newcastle Corporation,
but were originally ordered by Venture,Consett:-

Daimler CVD6/Willowbrook B35F Single Decker Omnibus,Chassis No.15606,Body No.8373,LTN 470,Newcastle,June 1948,Newcastle Corporation,No.170.Queen Elizabeth II’s Coronation celebrations,June 1953.1#

VALKYRIE

[ramone]

ERF-NGC-European:

cav551:

ramone:

smallcoal:
Taken at llancayo farm usk

A Leyland badge on a Routemaster , has it been repowered?

In spite of its close relationship with aec London Transport had a dual sourcing policy in case of production difficulties. The organisation had inherited TD1s and ordered TD4s pre war. The TD4s had impressed the Company. When peace came after WW2 the fleet was in a parlous state, practically every vehicle was worn out either bodily or mechanically or both. The number of vehicles required far exceeded AEC’s ability to meet LT’s requirements; this resulted in the large fleet of PD2/1 RTLs and PD2/3 RTWs. At the outset of Routemaster design there was a clear intention for Leyland to be involved in the project. Two of the prototype RMs were Leyland powered ’ both also featuring a unique Leyland final drive. When one of these units failed RM3 was robbed to keep the coach version prototype running while LT waited for Leyland to manufacture a replacement specially. Once production started RM 632 was sent to Leyland as a pilot vehicle for the projected order. In total not far short of 600 RMs were produced with Leyland engines. The Leyland powered buses were spread throughout the fleet although garages tended to be either Leyland or AEC predominantly. Mortlake Garage in particular is always associated with a very smart Leyland RM fleet. By the 1980s LT had embarked on an RM withdrwal programme in which the Leyland buses featured significantly. The Leyland engines were slightly less popular with drivers - too noisy - and the engineeering staff - certain engine intermediate level replacement tasks particualrly with auxilaries, being more difficult and time consuming. In spite of this there was practically nothing to choose between the two engines in other respects, the Leylands were slowly withdrawn along with those vehicles with Simms electrical equipment because LT wished to reduce its stock holding of non standard parts.

The LT overhaul system is a complicated issue, however in a nutshell Bonnet numbers( RM**) and registration numbers were transferred from a vehicle arriving for overhaul onto one ready to depart to garages as a completed vehicle. This resulted in the two Leyland batches emerging having wildly different bonnet and reg nos. There were also engine changes in garages when one make came out and the other went in; this having been designed as a simple procedure with the engine arriving being fitted with all required parts. There were never any Leyland RMLs although RM 3 was initially given the Bonnet number RML 3. So far no one has managed to fit a Leyland 680 into a Routemaster reputedly because of sump crankshaft combination clearance issues with the front suspension cross member. Numerous other engines are known to have been fitted: Iveco, ■■■■■■■■ Scania, DAF, Ashok Leyland, Caterpillar, Paccar, Gardner and the latest to emerge in Germany is M.A.N. All of these transplants require additional work. Given the chance I would like to try a Detroit 671.

What a wonderful reply! . Robert

Are there many original AEC engined Routemasters left , and yes what a great reply Cav

[cav551]

ramone:
Are there many original AEC engined Routemasters left

Yes but I can only hazard a guess at how many - probably around 30-50, nearly all privately owned with the exception of those owned and operated by Ensignbus of Purfleet and the London Bus Company of Northfleet. who are the biggest operators of ex LT buses for private hire. Both however put out every available vehicle if requested by TfL when there are travel difficulties in London. In fact both operators put out RTs and RFs as well in these circumstances.

There were something in the region of 600 RMLs withdrawn from service between 2003 and 2005 followiing the announcement by London Mayor Ken Livingston that the Routemaster was to be removed from service to comply with disability access regulations. In fact these regulations IIRC did not come into force until 2017. By the final day of service in December 2005 there were only two or maybe three still AEC powered in semi regular use. RM 5, RM 613, and RML 2760. Practically all of the vehicles withdrawn in 2005 are still running in some form somewhere in the world.

In 1990/1 almost the entire RML fleet and a few score RMs had their AEC engines removed and modified (N/A) ■■■■■■■ C series or Iveco 8361 power substituted. AFAIK there were never any ■■■■■■■ C engines fitted to RMs. AEC had ceased trading in 1978 so spare parts were becoming hard to come by, the engines had also been in service for up to 30 years and accumulated significant mileages. In that time they had been overhauled numerous times resulting in core components being no longer recoverable. LT’s own Chiswick Works overhaul factory had closed in 1988 and LT was forced to use outside contractors to carry out engine overhauls. For some time before that the time between overhauls (TBO) for AEC engines had been getting shorter, now it had become a serious concern; the engines were simply worn out and the quality of replacements had deteriorated to an unacceptable level. By around 2000 virtually all the remaining RMs with AEC power and few score Iveco engines were replaced with Scania DS9 units. In around 2001 TfL had decided that it needed more open platform buses and another score or so RMs were resurrected or purchased from other operators or individuals and put through a complete modernisation programme, emerging with ■■■■■■■ 6 BTA engines and Allison MT 643 or T270 automatic gearboxes along with significant interior updates.

The situation now is that AEC or Leyland power is considered rather too fragile by most of the Private Hire operators outside London, it being difficult to find drivers sympathetic enough to keep the speed down on sometimes quite significant dead mileage to and from hire pick up points. To give some indication the bus with the M.A.N engine had, I’m told, consumed four AEC engines in something like the same number of years.

[tyneside]

I wonder how many of these are being used around the world as city tour buses

Tyneside

[kevmac47]

tyneside:
Two shots from Marlborough St, Station. Anyone know if Wrights are still operating ■■?

Marlborough Cres. Nearby was the abattoir with its accompanying stink! I remember a bullock escaping from there and the panic from the punters when it headed for the bus station I’ve never seen the buses fill up as quick as they tried to evade the very angry and confused beast. Regards Kev.

[lawrence_dunbar]

tyneside:

nickb67:

tyneside:
Two shots from Marlborough St, Station. Anyone know if Wrights are still operating ■■?

Lawrence Dunbar:
Hi Tyneside, IIRC There is a firm called Wrights based at Smiles for Miles old depot at Blucher who run coaches, Regards Larry.

Presume they’ll be Wrights of Nenthead.

thanks for the replies. The Wrights I remember came from the Alston area so Nenthead would probably fit with that.

Tyneside

Hi Tyneside, Wrights of Alston would be correct as far as I know, Regards Larry.

[tyneside]

Lawrence Dunbar:

tyneside:

nickb67:

tyneside:
Two shots from Marlborough St, Station. Anyone know if Wrights are still operating ■■?

Lawrence Dunbar:
Hi Tyneside, IIRC There is a firm called Wrights based at Smiles for Miles old depot at Blucher who run coaches, Regards Larry.

Presume they’ll be Wrights of Nenthead.

thanks for the replies. The Wrights I remember came from the Alston area so Nenthead would probably fit with that.

Tyneside

Hi Tyneside, Wrights of Alston would be correct as far as I know, Regards Larry.

Thanks Larry

[tyneside]

kevmac47:

tyneside:
Two shots from Marlborough St, Station. Anyone know if Wrights are still operating ■■?

Marlborough Cres. Nearby was the abattoir with its accompanying stink! I remember a bullock escaping from there and the panic from the punters when it headed for the bus station I’ve never seen the buses fill up as quick as they tried to evade the very angry and confused beast. Regards Kev.

Hi Kevmac. That would have been Dodds & Bedford who were in the buildings opposite the cattle loading docks at the old mart. They later moved along to the new abattoir on Whitehouse Road.

[ray_smyth]

Ribble Bristol VR fleet number 1995 on the A592 heading for Brotherswater in the Lake District.
Brotherswater is one of the smaller lakes, It is between Ullswater to the north
and Windermere to the south. Picture by John Young.
Ray Smyth.

[ray_smyth]

Ribble Leyland PD2, fleet number 1461 is in Darwen on route X18 to Blackpool in 1960.
Picture by J.S.Cockshott.
Ray Smyth.

[ray_smyth]

Ribble Leyland PD2 fleet number 1461 departing from Victoria Square in St Helens
on route 352 to Wigan. The AEC Swift on the right is a St Helens Corporation bus
on route 55 to Carr Mill. During my time at Ribble, early 1968 to early 1970, this
bus, 1461, was one of just 4 PD2 back loaders, the other 3 were 1438, 1464, & 1486
which were based at Wigan depot, they lasted another 2 or 3 years. Ray Smyth.

[ray_smyth]

Ribble Leyland Atlantean fleet number 1399 is on the A591 passing through the village of Grasmere in the
Lake District. It is on route 555, a very long stage carriage journey from Keswick to Lancaster in May 1985.
Picture by John Young.

[ray_smyth]

Ribble bus station at Skelhorne Street in Liverpool. Leyland PD2 fleet number 1443 is
leaving the bus station at the Blake Street exit on route S2 to Southport.
Photo by Ian Stewart.

[ray_smyth]

Ribble Sentinel,fleet number 280 from about 1950 was based at Carlisle depot.
The drivers cab door was good to keep open in hot weather. Ray Smyth.
Picture by J.S.Cockshott.