Evening all,
My goodness me, what a collection of memory stimulation…“little Scanias”, (Harry I did not like them either), “lumpy” old Berliets, (thanks for the images Patrick), and Unics…related to Saurers, (Michel), and lots of Saurers and Berna`s, (nice images David Junior)!..and Railway engines, of the diesel variety!..many of dear old British Rails railcars had Saurer Diesels…and Oilys beautiful and handsome 300 D serie tipper, one of the Worlds best looking 8 wheelers…
Right back in the 1900s Rudolph Diesel, and later Harry Ricardo( from the UK) co operated with Suisse manufacturer Saurer on diesel design! That is just how long ago Saurer started with diesels, By 1934 Saurer could offer 4 to 12 cylinder engines from 50hp up to 240 hp…by 1937 they were experimenting with water cooled Turbocharging. In the `50s Saurer offered an 11.6 litre V8 @ 190 hp rising to 240hp, (often seen when mounted in a lorry with bonnet, without the side panels in place). Developments of this basic design of engine would eventually have a power output in excess of 500hp for military use.
Then there were the V12s and V16s with outputs rising from 600 hp up to around 2500 hp. The wonderful and so smooth supercharged D1 Seriewith its Supercharger and power approaching 300 hp , yet a change to Turbocharging in the mid 70s was much lamented by many operators, despite a 30 plus bhp boost to 330 hp! In front of wonderful "in house" produced transmissions with retarders, (only replaced by licence built ZFs in the late 70s). When Saurer were suffering from a bloody nose in their exports to South America and the Gulf.
But there is a theme that ties together the pictures that we have enjoyed from Michel, Patrick, and Davidoff…the V8 engine…why?
Well lets look at the V design of the 50s and through to the `70s. Unic, partner of Simca, and ultimately owned by the Agnelli families Fiat, had developed their first V8 engine launched in 1964, as the V8 MZ62 of 10.766 litres, (119x121mm), 225 hp @2600 rpm. By 1967 this had morphed into the Serie M62S, of 11.88 litres, (125x121mm), then the V84S with a capacity near to 14 litres and giving 310hp, but then in the 70s came the V85@ 14.88 litres, (135x130mm) and 340 hp @2400rpm. A superb engine, with a few “niggles”, that would by corrected in operation. So good that it became the powerunit for the premium OM range…in fact the OM 190 and 260 “export” models were total Unic lorries even down to the tilting Unic version of the Fiat cabin as fitted to the 190s…but the other power units for OM were from Saurer designs!
But whilst this engine range was being developed Fiat were heavily involved with Saurer, in fact Saurer were looking to Fiat to support them financially as well as exchanging manufacture and design data.
The dilemma that presented itself to Fiat was that their new range of in line 6 cylinder engines, the 13.88 litre 8210 had a potential well in excess of 340 hp, and the V85, even when developed into the stillborn 15.55 litre V86 was becoming close to the potential “base line” performance of the new Fiat V8 8280 Serie, which owed much of its ancestory to the Saurer Fiat collaboration of the same period! And the engineers that developed that wonderful V8 of 17litres, (arguably a sweeter more drivable engine than any produced in Sweden), had at their core the team from Unic, who had crossed the Alpes to Turin bringing their expertise and knowledge of V serie development with them. While at the same time it may have been the end of “true” Unic production in France, but the Bourbon Lancy plant became the manufacturing centre for the Fiat, (and later Iveco), 13.88 litre engine.
So there we have a strong link between three Vs…Unic, Fiat, and Saurer…but could there be another link, a fourth■■?
Well yes,
If you look at Berliets disasterous V800 serie of V8s of the 60s, a frantic revving 6910cc (100x110mm) litre( which I described in an earlier post), then came the equally disasterous 825 Serie, fitted to the sensational TR300 with its KB2400 cab of 1970/71. 12.760 litres, (125 x 130mm), 300hp @2500 rpm, …only 778 were sold before (the brave), decision to stop production was made mid `72. This engine was redesigned as the 08.35.30. (135 x 130 mm) and 14.88 litres… a coincidence no doubt…perhaps so…but… Jacques Barbet Director General of Unic, had previously been Works Director at Berliets “new” Bourg en Bresse factory…and had much knowledge of the redesign of Berliets V8!
And Patrick, that old Berliet would have little problem at around 100 tonnes… I suspect that it would have been a well worn, and rather ancient looking TBO Berliet "retired " Heavy Haulage tractor. Appearances deceive, Ive seen them work solo at the late 100 tonnes with Mayer, and Scales, Dessierer Zucconi et al, without any drama… Quite some lorry!
Interesting history though, the link between the French, Italian, and Suisse V8s
Im away to my bed.
Cheerio for now.