As the title implies, we’ve got 100% pass on our NVDIR Training Centre audit again.
This is a guarantee of standards so it’s worth noting.
Pete 
Think this deserves ROG’s fanfare tbh.
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
I have no idea what this means.
So I looked on the website. It seems like a register for training schools. But I still don’t know what the audit covers.
I then see it’s a ltd company. So google that… beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp … 8/officers
It just seems to be owned by a few big training schools. Including Peter Symthes. I have trained there and think they are very good. But I couldn’t take this sort of thing seriously. It’s like me starting a company with some mates - and then saying we have been audited as the best lovers and have 100% satisfaction rating.
Auditing implies impartiality and external oversight. It’s why big accountancy companies make so much money.
EDIT - I’m not saying there is anything wrong with this. But I do question whether a company would tarnish it’s parent companies reputation… However if it leads to better training it’s a good thing I suppose.
NVDIR stands for National Vocational Driving Instructor Register. The audit is carried out entirely independently - and it’s perfectly possible to fail it. If you want an idea of what it covers, from memory:
Instructor qualifications
Instructor continuous professional development
Data protection
Health & Safety policy
Equal Opps policy
Motor vehicle documentation for entire fleet
Random vehicle checks
Defect reporting and rectification system and records
Full check of vehicle maintenance records and inspection frequencies
Checks for fire extinguishers, first aid kits and warning triangles
Reversing areas scrutinised (measured and markings checked for accuracy)
Classroom facilities, incl heating, ventilation, furnishings.
Entire training centre checked for correct em exit signage
Management of trainee progress records
Fire drill records
Fire alarm check records
Training programme for new instructors wishing to become qualified
Customer complaints procedure
Public liability insurance
Employer’s liability insurance
There’s probably more but that will do for now. And trust me, this is not some sort of old boy’s network. Yes, I had a contribution to the setting up of the register as we were asked to by DVSA as they were about to discontinue their register last December. I certainly wasn’t aware of any soft treatment today! Over 4 hours of being put through the mangle. But I believe it’s good to be checked and, if required, being given a boot up the proverbial.
Sadly, there is absolutely no legal requirement for most of this. It would be interesting if anyone was to dare go to an average trainer with this list and ask for the answers.
If anyone is unsure as to what a “model” training centre looks like, you’re welcome to come and look - anytime in office hours without appointment. And ask for any of the proofs above. No problem. (Or, of course, take your chance elsewhere)
It’s highly unlikely that any potential customer is going to ask trainers about the list above, so the fact it’s all been done independently by an impartial auditing company, saves you having to do the job. That is assuming that standards are actually important.
Pete
Pete, do you know why the DVSA don’t have the same requirements as car driving instructors for HGV instructors?
ItsJoe:
Pete, do you know why the DVSA don’t have the same requirements as car driving instructors for HGV instructors?
Because they’re ■■■■■■■ mental if you ask me.
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
ItsJoe:
… do you know why the DVSA don’t have the same requirements as car driving instructors for HGV instructors?
It is probably because they are not teaching first time learners on the public roads
Pete, do you know why the DVSA don’t have the same requirements as car driving instructors for HGV instructors?
Apart from IronEddie’s reply (that I happen to agree with) “there is no political will to impose restrictions on the industry”.
When DSVA (DSA as it was then) introduced the Voluntary Register of LGV Instructors in 1997, the industry was led to believe that it would follow the path that ADI (car instructor qualification) had taken in the early seventies. This, too, was voluntary to start with. And, after less than 2 years, it became compulsory. Together with others, I was registered with Road Transport Industry Training Board and had been since 1971. I transferred to the DSA register as it seemed to be the way forward. But it has been nothing but expensive and disappointing. And it’s now defunct.
The NVDIR is one of two registers that has replaced the DVSA register (lgvregister.org).
Sadly, poor instructors get away with it as most folks just assume that their chosen instructor will be trained, qualified and registered. A major haulier who has been the subject of a special training offer on the forum has ZERO qualified instructors, to the best of my knowledge. But no-one will worry cos it’s cheap. Unless that’s just me being cynical.
Pete
Peter Smythe:
The NVDIR is one of two registers that has replaced the DVSA register (lgvregister.org).Sadly, poor instructors get away with it as most folks just assume that their chosen instructor will be trained, qualified and registered. A major haulier who has been the subject of a special training offer on the forum has ZERO qualified instructors, to the best of my knowledge. But no-one will worry cos it’s cheap. Unless that’s just me being cynical.
Pete
Do Stobarts not train their own instructors? I’m asking that genuinely. I can’t imagine they throw some keys at a random driver and say your taking out learners today. If they are trained and can do the job does the lack of qualification matter? I’d be interested to see their pass statistics. We know yours is very very high at about 75%. So I’d be interested to compare a school with no qualified instructors to fully qualified instructors.
I kinda agree with sammym.
It would mean a lot more if it was a government organisation like the DVSA or if it was mandatory.
I also had no idea what it means and I bet most people dont either.
I’m not trying discredit Pete or the organization; something is better then nothing.
I know Pete has gone out of his way to try and bring much needed regulation to training companies. Just a shame that the government has zero interest in changing anything.
If only this was mandatory then we could see how your 100% Audit compares to Bobs round the corner who rents a muddy field with a 20 year old truck.
Maybe ask them - and ask for evidence.
You will be amazed how often a driver is thrown the keys by trainers and told to show someone “how to go on”. Agency drivers have also been utilised in emergency by certain trainers.
Statistics aren’t available as the DVSA maintain they cant produce them. There is currently a campaign to get them to alter their system so that each instructor’s statistics are publicly available. But is there a saying about “hell freezing over?”.
What I DO know is that I have trained dozens of instructors over the years - some of whom have worked for me for many years. And none of these would I have let loose with a candidate when they started their training. It takes a lot of time, patience, study and commitment to achieve the standards that I personally demand. In fairness, the register standard is a touch lower - but not much.
It’s also the case that, after all this, not all instructors manage to pass their tests first time. The standard is the standard and it doesn’t move for anyone. I have previously cancelled my holiday to cover courses that were planned for a trainer who, the week before, failed to achieve the standard. I could have let him loose but that’s not the way I work.
Pete
I kinda agree with sammym.
It would mean a lot more if it was a government organisation like the DVSA or if it was mandatory.
I also had no idea what it means and I bet most people dont either.I’m not trying discredit Pete or the organization; something is better then nothing.
I know Pete has gone out of his way to try and bring much needed regulation to training companies. Just a shame that the government has zero interest in changing anything.
If only this was mandatory then we could see how your 100% Audit compares to Bobs round the corner who rents a muddy field with a 20 year old truck.
Yes, it would be great if it was a mandatory DVSA qualification. But, as you say, something is better than nothing. And, honestly, having been a DVSA Accredited Training Centre for many years, the NVDIR audit came as a bit of a surprise. The standard is higher again. And I’m not moaning (though still reeling from being put through that particular mill!).
But, although it’s not mandatory, you can still
see how your 100% Audit compares to Bobs round the corner who rents a muddy field with a 20 year old truck.
Just get in your car and look. Anyone who comes to have a look around our centre is welcome to ask what they want, ask to see whatever documentation they want. There’s nothing underhand and even less to be ashamed of.
I don’t believe there will be any legislation around any of this within my lifetime, which is a tragedy. Because, in the meantime, most folks book having asked the first question “how much is it for …?” And as a direct result, folks will not always get the best possible training experience.
Pete
Peter Smythe:
Just get in your car and look. Anyone who comes to have a look around our centre is welcome to ask what they want, ask to see whatever documentation they want. There’s nothing underhand and even less to be ashamed of.
Pete
That is the problem. When I took my first cat C test I saw a flashy website and went this looks legit. Phoned up asked a few questions then booked with them. Turned out they kept their lorries in a lorry park and used that when it wasn’t too busy and the instructor was a very lazy angry idiot.
Maybe if there was an official register that everyone had to be on I could check that.
The main problem is most people have only taken a car test which is just a case of phoning up or checking a website and booking up so they assume it is the same process. So the general public will just look at the Hypothetical Bobs training website and be impressed because it looks the part and will not realize that they have made a mistake until they turn up for training.
This is not doubt why Training Brokers are so prevalent in this industry. 
I dunno why I’m arguing about this though because your doing more about this problem then most people and I know you want for there to be a system that compares your standards with other schools.
It is frustating though that I lost £1500 over 3 years ago due to a bad school and people are constantly on this forum still complaining about having the exact same thing happen to them.
ROG:
ItsJoe:
… do you know why the DVSA don’t have the same requirements as car driving instructors for HGV instructors?It is probably because they are not teaching first time learners on the public roads
I see your point. However i would argue any c or c+e vehicle is much more dangerous to it’s driver and the public than a car. As such trainers should be held to the same or even higher standard.
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
it’s highly unlikely that any potential customer is going to ask trainers about the list above, so the fact it’s all been done independently by an impartial auditing company, saves you having to do the job. That is assuming that standards are actually important.
Where can we see the audits for each company on the register please?
I can’t find them on the website
Good question! I don’t believe they are publicly available. But in the event of an audit fail, the centre would loose it’s registration so would not appear on the website. The end of December marks the 1st anniversary of the register so, by then, all the centres will have been audited again.
That’s the best answer I can give.
Pete
Congratulations and keep up the good work .
Beyond doubt this is something Peter should rightly feel proud of. I have known Pete for a number of years and have visited both his current and previous site. Despite having been involved in LGV training for well over 30 years I chose to send my son Stuart to Pete to be trained as a trainer early this year. Why? because I knew it would expose him to the way a Training company should operate.
However joining any register and passing the relevant tests is just a small introduction to what being a great trainer is about. This is Stuart’s 1st winter and no amount of training could prepare a trainer for the seasonal differences. Only experience can achieve that.
A newly qualified trainer with limited experience probably knows 10% - 20% of what someone not qualified but with 10 years experience knows.
It is almost impossible for a young keen hopeful candidate to compare trainers. Recommendation is probably their best bet but a close 2nd is a recognised qualification.
Regards to all
LGVTrainer:
Beyond doubt this is something Peter should rightly feel proud of. I have known Pete for a number of years and have visited both his current and previous site. Despite having been involved in LGV training for well over 30 years I chose to send my son Stuart to Pete to be trained as a trainer early this year. Why? because I knew it would expose him to the way a Training company should operate.However joining any register and passing the relevant tests is just a small introduction to what being a great trainer is about. This is Stuart’s 1st winter and no amount of training could prepare a trainer for the seasonal differences. Only experience can achieve that.
A newly qualified trainer with limited experience probably knows 10% - 20% of what someone not qualified but with 10 years experience knows.
It is almost impossible for a young keen hopeful candidate to compare trainers. Recommendation is probably their best bet but a close 2nd is a recognised qualification.
Regards to all
Very true words by John, I would also add that being able to communicate to a trainee in a constructive manner is very important as well as experience of truck handling and positioning.
Paul
I would also add that being able to communicate to a trainee in a constructive manner is very important as well as experience of truck handling and positioning.
… all of which is thoroughly tested to get onto the register. So someone using a registered instructor has that assurance. That doesn’t take away one bit from the importance of recommendation.
Pete