I’m off to tribunal with union help (so long as I keep my dues up to date - and despite being unemployed and struggling on £67.50/week)
fred, don’t know which union you are in but if Unite(TGWU) you shouldn’t be paying full subs whilst unemployed, I would have thought that other unions were the same.
Good luck with tribunal !
Carryfast:
fredthered:
Winseer:
cav551:
The “troublesome driver” that needs to be sacked of course defines someone who:
1)Defects vehicles
2)Takes 1/2 hr longer to do a job because he sticks to the speed limits
3)Asks for a seal to be broken to check load security
4)Takes longer to get out of the yard in the morning because he checks the vehicle and load
5)Checks his delivery documents and points out that it MAY not be possible to complete all drops in the day or:
He MAY require to be relieved 45 minutes drive from the depot because he has run out of hours
6)Does not record standing in an RDC waiting room as Break
7)Does not “pull the card” when he gets back into the depot at 14hrs 50 minutes in order to disguise the fact that it took another 35/40 minutes to queue to refuel, complete paperwork, drop trailer off at workshop for service etc. - all of course unpaid.
Parks up an hour away from the depot because he will not do 7
9)Points out the glaringly obvious calculation that the number of cartons (to be) loaded will make the vehicle overweight
10)Reminds the office 3 times during the week that he needs to be home Friday nightno smiley on original
dammit! - That’s me knackered then, as I’m doing nearly every one of the above with the exception of (3) on a regular basis!
If I drive in the gate with the wagon @ 14:50, I’ll get the shunter to park it, not having derved it, or done anything but pop my card, flash into the office to book off, and get my arse out of the gate - I want to be in the car park on foot by 14:59 which I’ll book on my digi as “10 min lead-out” when I next put it in.
This month so far I’ve rejected 2 vehicles for no tail lift lead, 3 for blown bulbs, fuel cap missing, wheel nut missing, wrong dart tag (had a severn bridge one stuck down on inside of windscreen!) and missing securing chain on a fully-loaded trailer.
If I am to be sent out on a run that COULD go over, then I’ll make sure it’s a run I know back to front, so there’s less chance of any hoo-har being down to my own ignorance of that particular job. Don’t give the buggers a chance to say its all YOUR fault when you run out of hours you see!
I’d be very careful. I was all of that and more and a union rep and I still got the bullet! Our area guy said that if employers really want to get rid of you they will and no one can or will stop them. I’m off to tribunal with union help (so long as I keep my dues up to date - and despite being unemployed and struggling on £67.50/week) but as you’ve already seen, the tribunal members don’t like this or that, you musn’t say anything that they think is a waste of their time etc, etc!
And yes it’s true, employers can be told to take you back but it is very unusual and not compulsary and the compensation is now derisory because they don’t want employers (even if they lose) to feel that they are being picked on by government and being told how to run their business!
At my age (elderley according to another recent thread!!) I think I probably will never work again now because of the hassle of claiming JSA and then not and then claiming again after doing casual work, and all by interfering busy bodies that run or think they run this horrible and miserable country!
That says it all and that’s before Cam and Clegg have even got started.
By the way - could we please refer to them as Dave & Nick? It’s so much more ‘persona’ friendly and in tune with the modern world. 
del949:
I’m off to tribunal with union help (so long as I keep my dues up to date - and despite being unemployed and struggling on £67.50/week)
fred, don’t know which union you are in but if Unite(TGWU) you shouldn’t be paying full subs whilst unemployed, I would have thought that other unions were the same.
Good luck with tribunal !
Thanks Del949 - I keep my chin up and I’m looking into that. Never been unemployed before in 40 years so it’s all a bit of a shock!!
del949:
Even getting rid of deadwood, no work ethic, lazy [zb] is difficult and more importantly costly for any employer, and there are a great number of people out there who make a ‘living’ from claiming unfair dismissal. Once you’ve spent time and money, as an employer, dealing with ACAS, employment courts, etc., it’s very often easier to pay and settle.
apart from a few places where unions still have a strong hold this is simply untrue, its a myth that has been pedalled out everytime there is a proposed change in the law to benefit the workers.
margaret thatcher got rid of most of the protection laws along with John Major.
The Labour govt, under Blair had promised to replace them but didn’t.
If less workers rights equalled a promise of greater prosperity for the nation then we should be all laughing on the way to the bank already as we have less protection than workers in most EU countries now, let alonwe any further reductions.
I am not certain if it has been implemented yet or if it is still a proposal that workers are going to have to pay a deposit before going to a tribunal and the tribunal panel makeup of three members is to be altered to give the benefit to employers.
Some of you seem as if you won’t be happy until the time comes when you all turn up on a Monday morning and a gangmaster picks out who will get work that week.
Not mentioned nation prosperity, but speaking from personal experience having been involved in several businesses over the past 15 years. In my experience there is very little risk to the employee taking their employer to a tribunal and the time taken up putting a defence together often far outweighs the cost of just paying-up to get rid. There are far too many organisations, most of them paid for by the tax payer, that will take on any case, mostly without merit. There is very little recognition of the time taken to ‘process’ false/spurious claims within a small business.
Of course the flip-side of this is when there is a serious breach of employment law that poor sod will be lumped in with the other ■■■■■ looking to make a couple of quid out of their last employer.
Plambert:
del949:
Even getting rid of deadwood, no work ethic, lazy [zb] is difficult and more importantly costly for any employer, and there are a great number of people out there who make a ‘living’ from claiming unfair dismissal. Once you’ve spent time and money, as an employer, dealing with ACAS, employment courts, etc., it’s very often easier to pay and settle.
apart from a few places where unions still have a strong hold this is simply untrue, its a myth that has been pedalled out everytime there is a proposed change in the law to benefit the workers.
margaret thatcher got rid of most of the protection laws along with John Major.
The Labour govt, under Blair had promised to replace them but didn’t.
If less workers rights equalled a promise of greater prosperity for the nation then we should be all laughing on the way to the bank already as we have less protection than workers in most EU countries now, let alonwe any further reductions.
I am not certain if it has been implemented yet or if it is still a proposal that workers are going to have to pay a deposit before going to a tribunal and the tribunal panel makeup of three members is to be altered to give the benefit to employers.
Some of you seem as if you won’t be happy until the time comes when you all turn up on a Monday morning and a gangmaster picks out who will get work that week.Not mentioned nation prosperity, but speaking from personal experience having been involved in several businesses over the past 15 years. In my experience there is very little risk to the employee taking their employer to a tribunal and the time taken up putting a defence together often far outweighs the cost of just paying-up to get rid. There are far too many organisations, most of them paid for by the tax payer, that will take on any case, mostly without merit. There is very little recognition of the time taken to ‘process’ false/spurious claims within a small business.
Of course the flip-side of this is when there is a serious breach of employment law that poor sod will be lumped in with the other [zb] looking to make a couple of quid out of their last employer.
So does being sacked for anything other than a (very serious) breach of discipline,considering that the guvnor has enough time within the present rules to decide if a worker is up to the job or not,fit into the description of the ‘poor sods’ in your view 
.
There are far too many organisations, most of them paid for by the tax payer, that will take on any case,
Such as ?
fredthered:
Carryfast:
fredthered:
Winseer:
cav551:
The “troublesome driver” that needs to be sacked of course defines someone who:
1)Defects vehicles
2)Takes 1/2 hr longer to do a job because he sticks to the speed limits
3)Asks for a seal to be broken to check load security
4)Takes longer to get out of the yard in the morning because he checks the vehicle and load
5)Checks his delivery documents and points out that it MAY not be possible to complete all drops in the day or:
He MAY require to be relieved 45 minutes drive from the depot because he has run out of hours
6)Does not record standing in an RDC waiting room as Break
7)Does not “pull the card” when he gets back into the depot at 14hrs 50 minutes in order to disguise the fact that it took another 35/40 minutes to queue to refuel, complete paperwork, drop trailer off at workshop for service etc. - all of course unpaid.
9)Points out the glaringly obvious calculation that the number of cartons (to be) loaded will make the vehicle overweight
10)Reminds the office 3 times during the week that he needs to be home Friday nightno smiley on original
dammit! - That’s me knackered then, as I’m doing nearly every one of the above with the exception of (3) on a regular basis!
If I drive in the gate with the wagon @ 14:50, I’ll get the shunter to park it, not having derved it, or done anything but pop my card, flash into the office to book off, and get my arse out of the gate - I want to be in the car park on foot by 14:59 which I’ll book on my digi as “10 min lead-out” when I next put it in.This month so far I’ve rejected 2 vehicles for no tail lift lead, 3 for blown bulbs, fuel cap missing, wheel nut missing, wrong dart tag (had a severn bridge one stuck down on inside of windscreen!) and missing securing chain on a fully-loaded trailer.
If I am to be sent out on a run that COULD go over, then I’ll make sure it’s a run I know back to front, so there’s less chance of any hoo-har being down to my own ignorance of that particular job. Don’t give the buggers a chance to say its all YOUR fault when you run out of hours you see!
I’d be very careful. I was all of that and more and a union rep and I still got the bullet! Our area guy said that if employers really want to get rid of you they will and no one can or will stop them. I’m off to tribunal with union help (so long as I keep my dues up to date - and despite being unemployed and struggling on £67.50/week) but as you’ve already seen, the tribunal members don’t like this or that, you musn’t say anything that they think is a waste of their time etc, etc!
And yes it’s true, employers can be told to take you back but it is very unusual and not compulsary and the compensation is now derisory because they don’t want employers (even if they lose) to feel that they are being picked on by government and being told how to run their business!
At my age (elderley according to another recent thread!!) I think I probably will never work again now because of the hassle of claiming JSA and then not and then claiming again after doing casual work, and all by interfering busy bodies that run or think they run this horrible and miserable country!
That says it all and that’s before Cam and Clegg have even got started.
By the way - could we please refer to them as Dave & Nick? It’s so much more ‘persona’ friendly and in tune with the modern world.
Maybe that was a bit unfair as it’s obvious that they are just trying to make things better for everyone and they’ve said that we’re all in this together so I’m sure that they can be trusted and that must mean them as well. 
I think this article explains it in detail 
: http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/cameron-brings-back-slavery-2012052228067
Winseer:
securing chain on a fully-loaded trailer.
What’s one of those?? Is it to tie the back doors to the side of the trl■■?
15 or so minutes ago…Looks as though Vince Cable the Business Sec…is hitting back at the proposals to make it easier for employers to sack their employees.
guardian.co.uk/politics/2012 … ls-workers
.
tallyman:
I think this article explains it in detail
Nice one! But closer to the truth than the majority realise!!
^^^^^ Very true.
Let’s take a leaf out of the Greek peoples book and tell the Government and their Corporate Paymasters to get stuffed.
fredthered:
tallyman:
I think this article explains it in detailNice one! But closer to the truth than the majority realise!!
How will Beecroft get his money back if he sacks everyone who’s taken out a payday loan.
Solly:
15 or so minutes ago…Looks as though Vince Cable the Business Sec…is hitting back at the proposals to make it easier for employers to sack their employees.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012 … ls-workers
.
Blimey that’s a surprise.I thought for a minute that Merkel had more say in what happens here than he does.Cam and Clegg will be sure to listen to him instead now he’s told them where he stands on the issue.
Solly:
^^^^^ Very true.Let’s take a leaf out of the Greek peoples book and tell the Government and the Germans to get stuffed.
Fixed that.
Carryfast:
Blimey that’s a surprise.I thought for a minute that Merkel had more say in what happens here than he does.Cam and Clegg will be sure to listen to him instead now he’s told them where he stands on the issue.
Know what you mean but Cam & Cleggy aren’t going to be too pleased with dissent from a Cabinet Minister.
Carryfast:
Solly:
^^^^^ Very true.Let’s take a leaf out of the Greek peoples book and tell the Government and the Germans to get stuffed.
Fixed that.
Wonder how the Euro-Zone leaders feel now that it looks certain Greece will leave the EU?
BBl.
Solly:
Carryfast:
Blimey that’s a surprise.I thought for a minute that Merkel had more say in what happens here than he does.Cam and Clegg will be sure to listen to him instead now he’s told them where he stands on the issue.
Ve haf vays of dealing vis dissent in ze cabinet.
Know what you mean but Cam & Cleggy aren’t going to be too pleased with dissent from a Cabinet Minister
.
Wrong, Cleggy will be delighted.
He is desperate to get some blue water between the Lib/dems and the Tories, simply because he sees the ratings that Cameron and the Tories are polling.
He knows that bar a miracle the Tories will be in a much weaker position at the next election and wants to get some seperation, hoping that the manure won’t stick to him.
del949:
Know what you mean but Cam & Cleggy aren’t going to be too pleased with dissent from a Cabinet Minister
.
Wrong, Cleggy will be delighted.
He is desperate to get some blue water between the Lib/dems and the Tories, simply because he sees the ratings that Cameron and the Tories are polling.
He knows that bar a miracle the Tories will be in a much weaker position at the next election and wants to get some seperation, hoping that the manure won’t stick to him.
If that’s right del all he’s got to do is take his whole sorry bunch across the floor to the Labour side hopefully with a few others from the other parties and bring the government down on every move it makes from now on until it’s in the same position as Callaghan was.
They haven’t got the bottle because they know that it’s the German bankers who are calling the tune on Britain’s economic policy and as soon as they see their Tory mates go under they’ll tell us what the ‘real’ figures are and how much we really owe and then we’re in the same,or worse, position as Greece.Unless,unlike the Greeks,we’ve got the sense to default and tell the bankers and their global free market economy that we’re finished with it and they’ll only get there money back when we’ve earn’t it not before.
The fact is all the political parties are too frightened to tell the bankers that it’s the government that rules the country not the bankers.
