So the government have a proposal to allow employers to sack & get rid of people with out any reason or notice , they think this will some how help the job market by freeing up vacancies, are they deluded ? Do they really think that employers won’t use it to just get rid off the work force with no explanations & no redundancy, imagine picking up your pay on Friday with a note to say don’t bother coming in Monday , good bye ,…
Even lord sugar gives a reason…
Does he give a reason? I thought it was a straight “You’re Fired!” and one is left wondering what particular ■■■■-up or under-performance it was that led to being shown the plastic curtains, or whatever.
As far as I recall in 20 odd years of full time work within a union environment, you only find it hard to sack people as an employer if your grounds for doing it are on dodgy ground.
Eg. You’re fired, ‘because I don’t like you’. You’re Fired ‘because you’re different from me’, You’re fired ‘because you said no’, you’re fired ‘because you’ve had too much time off sick’.
The last one is the only one most employers can get to stick, and has been for years.
I find it more of an insult for a prospective boss to not admit “We gave the job to a dork instead of you” because of one of the first three above. (You won’t start many jobs with a sick record after all!)
How many job applicants are turned down these days because they won’t work unpaid hours, work for less hourly rate, or are expected to carry other longer standing employees whilst being paid a Junior’s wages?
Wouldn’t be so bad if you’d just turned 18, but I’m talking about applying for jobs in middle age! 
Whilst I agree with getting rid of “Mr Sicknote” type characters, the problem with most firms is that they will get rid of the guy who got hospitalised because it’s his 4th sick this year, but not get rid of the football fan who took time off to watch the match, because his boss went as well!
Sick involving at least an overnight stay in hospital shouldn’t count as one of the “three strikes” aggregate that so many employers use, not differentiating one kind of sick from another.
The film “Philadelphia” concerned an employee with terminal AIDS being treated badly by his employer.
On this side of the pond, it’s not uncommon to see people in a hospice being given their P45 - had over 6 months off this year you see!
The way seriously ill people are treated by their firms stinks, and it’s about time that managers acting in this manner towards (especially terminally ill staff) were shown some laws that land them in Jail.
I would say the correct response for someone diagnosed with Terminal Cancer for example is for the firm to at least pay full wages whilst off sick for as long as it takes, and get any “death in service” benefit cheque to hit the doormat in time to pay for the funeral. Use the damned ATOS “doctor” to confirm it if necessary, but just do it already!
Its a real pain getting rid of people so anything they do can only be a good thing. Can’t comment on what you’ve said being completely true or not but if it is the case it will certainly free up jobs for hard working people. Those people that moan, complain and get on their high horse over f all should be worried!
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Winseer:
Does he give a reason? I thought it was a straight “You’re Fired!” and one is left wondering what particular ■■■■-up or under-performance it was that led to being shown the plastic curtains, or whatever.As far as I recall in 20 odd years of full time work within a union environment, you only find it hard to sack people as an employer if your grounds for doing it are on dodgy ground.
Eg. You’re fired, ‘because I don’t like you’. You’re Fired ‘because you’re different from me’, You’re fired ‘because you said no’, you’re fired ‘because you’ve had too much time off sick’.
I think the agenda in this case is probably one of they know that the economy is going to be zb’d in the medium to long term because they’ve chucked it all down the tubes of the global free market economy so now they need to find a way of making it a lot cheaper to get rid of a redundant workforce without having to pay them any redundancy money. 
It’s just a ploy to massage the figures. If you’re sacked you are not entitled to hand outs, therefore not “officially unemployed”. All the vacancies create a labour shortage and the government get a load of benefit scroungers into them. Stimulating the labour market to the outside world, acting like asses to those in the know 
Saaamon:
Its a real pain getting rid of people so anything they do can only be a good thing. Can’t comment on what you’ve said being completely true or not but if it is the case it will certainly free up jobs for hard working people. Those people that moan, complain and get on their high horse over f all should be worried!Sent from my BlackBerry 9780 using Tapatalk
‘Hard working’ in this case actually translates into anyone who doesn’t mind working under Victorian management practices and employment rights.No one can say that Victorian workers were lazy but they were certainly mugs compared to their 1970’s counterparts.
OVLOV JAY:
It’s just a ploy to massage the figures. If you’re sacked you are not entitled to hand outs, therefore not “officially unemployed”. All the vacancies create a labour shortage and the government get a load of benefit scroungers into them. Stimulating the labour market to the outside world, acting like asses to those in the know
More like it’s just a roundabout way of stopping redundancy payments and unemployment benefits thereby creating a pool of loads of desperate workers prepared to work for a crust and hopefully enough to pay the rent on the shack of a house.But unfortunately they’ll be a bit colder in the winter because there’s no spare bits of coal to pick up anywhere like there was in those ‘great days’ of the Victorian era.
‘Hard working’ in this case actually translates into anyone who doesn’t mind working under Victorian management practices and employment rights.No one can say that Victorian workers were lazy but they were certainly mugs compared to their 1970’s counterpart
Must be the 1st time ever agreed with carryfast 
Lord sugar gives a bit of a speech then says “and for that reason , your fired”…
I there are lazy 'ucks in every work place that should be kicked out , for this there is a disciplinary procedure, but this proposal would open the door for every small business & company to decide on a whim that they don’t need you when things are quiet, of you go , no reason , no redundancy & no rights and, like was said here probably no right to benefits etc thus making the unemployment figures look better , and any vacancies will be filled on an ad hoc basis, basically making every body a self employed agency worker , there will be no point signing a contract of employment…
Carryfast:
Saaamon:
Its a real pain getting rid of people so anything they do can only be a good thing. Can’t comment on what you’ve said being completely true or not but if it is the case it will certainly free up jobs for hard working people. Those people that moan, complain and get on their high horse over f all should be worried!Sent from my BlackBerry 9780 using Tapatalk
‘Hard working’ in this case actually translates into anyone who doesn’t mind working under Victorian management practices and employment rights.No one can say that Victorian workers were lazy but they were certainly mugs compared to their 1970’s counterparts.
And wht about the “face fits” syndrome that goes on in most companies. Boss goes to the club to watch the local team play football, all his cronies go along. the lad who doesn’t like football, and who just wants to do his job then go home is likely to be the one sacked first.
It’s time for everyone to emigrate! Hard won rights fought for by our grandfathers are now being openly eroded! Benefits cut! Because the civil servants can’t do their job properly!
You can’t blame the Unions for this one eh? 
It won’t work as the EU is a socialist block now! And the UK will ALWAYS do what it’s told!
Saaamon:
Its a real pain getting rid of people so anything they do can only be a good thing. Can’t comment on what you’ve said being completely true or not but if it is the case it will certainly free up jobs for hard working people. Those people that moan, complain and get on their high horse over f all should be worried!Sent from my BlackBerry 9780 using Tapatalk
And what benefit will you get from this proposal? 
More jobs to choose between because employers won’t have to put up with pain in arse drivers.
Anyone who has been involved with dismissing troublesome staff will know exactly the problems you have. You can’t just get rid of people after three minor strikes, some companies will take a chance, others won’t.
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Don’t forget to doff your hat and tug your forelock everytime the boss walks by, and if he has a bit of mud on his boots, don’t forget to crawl on the floor and lick them, you don’t want to get the sack now do you?
Saaamon:
More jobs to choose between because employers won’t have to put up with pain in arse drivers.Anyone who has been involved with dismissing troublesome staff will know exactly the problems you have. You can’t just get rid of people after three minor strikes, some companies will take a chance, others won’t.
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Well good luck with that! As Jon said above! That’s what you’ll end up doing! Don’t forget the KY!
dessy:
It’s time for everyone to emigrate! Hard won rights fought for by our grandfathers are now being openly eroded! Benefits cut! Because the civil servants can’t do their job properly!
You can’t blame the Unions for this one eh?It won’t work as the EU is a socialist block now! And the UK will ALWAYS do what it’s told!
Dessy, far from being a “communist block” the EU is more of a right wing facist dictatorship. One of the reasons for the demise of communism in the eastern block was that you were given everything by the state, regardless of your performance, you didn’t loose your job unless you were shipped off to the gulags!
While we are living in the UREU, Undemocratic Republic of European Union, we have no say in anything that either the Ubergruppenfuehrers in Brussels, or the spineless rabble in westminster put into power.
truckerjon:
dessy:
It’s time for everyone to emigrate! Hard won rights fought for by our grandfathers are now being openly eroded! Benefits cut! Because the civil servants can’t do their job properly!
You can’t blame the Unions for this one eh?It won’t work as the EU is a socialist block now! And the UK will ALWAYS do what it’s told!
Dessy, far from being a “communist block” the EU is more of a right wing facist dictatorship. One of the reasons for the demise of communism in the eastern block was that you were given everything by the state, regardless of your performance, you didn’t loose your job unless you were shipped off to the gulags!
While we are living in the UREU, Undemocratic Republic of European Union, we have no say in anything that either the Ubergruppenfuehrers in Brussels, or the spineless rabble in westminster put into power.
And you’ll continue to have little real say while people continue to vote for the parties of no change (Lab/Lib/Con) or decide not to vote at all. The only thing that will change their arrogance is if they see a possibility of losing their place in the game.
Lead by Merckle of Germany! You are correct Jon! France said “Noh” recently to the “Facist Regime” that is called the EU! My previous comment was based on thinking about the French election!
I’ve been ahead of the game voting UKIP for the last 4 elections including the most recent! Didn’t count for much my vote last time though! 
Anything that helps the situation at our place where its always seniority before suitability for any job.
Last 2 years, ive seen some great guys get ■■■■■■ off up the road whilst the tired lazy ■■■■■■■■ sit pretty and are protected by the unions. And boy dont these ■■■■■ know it!
I know people who take home about 25 grand a year and dont really have to do alot to get it. Its a hopeless situation all brought about by the union and it needs to stop.
One guy who they did manage to get out spent a year on the internet looking at bloody ebay etc more or less and as a suppervisor he was on about 38 grand a year (gross) for basicly doing sweet ■■■■ all. He was even paid to go banger racing on sundays a few yaers back when he was suposed to at work!
Saaamon:
More jobs to choose between because employers won’t have to put up with pain in arse drivers.Anyone who has been involved with dismissing troublesome staff will know exactly the problems you have.
Employers already have the right to sack someone without any right by that employee to claim for unfair dismissal within a year of employing them.So how is it that an employer would keep an employee on for more than that period if that employee hadn’t been doing the job properly.
It’s more like the employers are just out to save themselves some redundancy money with the win win situation for the government of no right to unemployment benefit for the sacked worker.What we actually need is stronger unfair dismissal laws and much higher redundancy payments.If that means that the work is then given to China instead because Chinese workers don’t mind working for zb all under a dictatorship then simple it doesn’t get allowed in under import restrictions.