Wtd Question

[coolrider]

robroy:
Firstly I am not the best one to give advice on driver hours, wtd and all the rest of such bull crap,as I aint really interested, even though I stick to the former category of rules, rather than the latter.

The only wtd thing I carry out is the 15 min in 6 hr thing, and that is not done conciously, it is just the way it works out as I take my breaks in complying with driver hours regs.

The wtd is a complete sham, embellished with the poa farce to make it look on the surface that we are not working ridiculous hours, even though in reality we still are…aka confidence trick/ cop out.
This is illustrated by the fact that nobody has been actually hammered in offence terms (afaik anyway) for not strictly adhering to it to the letter of the actual ‘wtd law’ apart from in addition to drivers hours infringemenas already stated.

When you think about it the DVSA could make a fortune out of it if they took it as seriously as E8b’s bezzy mate but the fact that they do not, illustrates my point.

Robroy the reason I take it so seriously is because I’m a TM in a large company and as such it’s my job to do it.

That isn’t a brag btw because if I’m honest I would rather be back on the road driving as it’s much easier believe me!

All name calling aside from my favourite driver on here I’m fully aware of the rules for many reasons, namely having reasonably regular meetings with DVSA and actually having a couple of good mates on that side.

Do I know everything? Absolutely not. If I’m unsure of anything I don’t give advise without finding out the facts first, not opinion but facts!

As boldbloke quite rightly points out the larger, more reputable companies will enforce it as will the DVSA. That’s from their mouth.

As you made such a song and dance about a stobarts driver in the incident involving your daughter I thought you might appreciate TMs like and me and company’s sticking by the rules. Oh but hold on perhaps they might not involve your daughter so it’s ok then!

BTW on that subject I’ve just given one of our drivers a written warning only last week for an incident that got reported to me similar to the one you describe!

All I’ll say to you is after you reporting said Stobarts driver I only hope you drive like a saint for the rest of your driving career.

One thing I will say to you all, and it probably won’t come as a surprise to many but some of the DVSA do look at this site and in fact I’ve had some posts on here mentioned to me by them. Fact.

The internet is a wonderful thing but anybody can access anything and that’s why I have a particular problem with some of the bull that gets written on here!

It certainly doesn’t do our industry any good with some of the knowledge, or lack of, and answers that get written on here!

[robroy]

bald bloke:

robroy:
Firstly I am not the best one to give advice on driver hours, wtd and all the rest of such bull crap,as I aint really interested, even though I stick to the former category of rules, rather than the latter.

The only wtd thing I carry out is the 15 min in 6 hr thing, and that is not done conciously, it is just the way it works out as I take my breaks in complying with driver hours regs.

The wtd is a complete sham, embellished with the poa farce to make it look on the surface that we are not working ridiculous hours, aka confidence trick/ cop out.
This is illustrated by the fact that nobody has been actually hammered in offence terms (afaik anyway) for not strictly adhering to it to the letter of the actual ‘wtd law’ apart from in addition to drivers hours infringemenas already stated.

When you think about it the DVSA could make a fortune out of it if they took it as seriously as E8b’s bezzy mate but the fact that they do not, illustrates my point.

But the larger companies such as mine take the WTD seriously and if I continually had these type of infringement’s it would possibly lead to some extra training and possible disciplinary action, I’m sure there are lots of smaller firms out there who perhaps turn a blind eye to it.

That is the problem with this country mate, all these bloody stupid derisory schemes are chucked at us, and the habitual conformist types jump at it with great gusto, and treat them with the utmost priority of importance.
An example the DCPC which is oh so genuine and oh so important, yet the country that devised it did not fully comply until the last minute, and even then in a casual manner according to a couple of Belgian ex workmates of mine.
Then the Dutch got a stay of execution on it last time I was talking to a VOS driver (one of the few Dutchmen left there btw)

The rest of us that are realists see these sort of crap money making scams and con tricks for what they really are, and treat them accordingly, by complying for only as much as we HAVE to, to prevent us from getting bit on the arse, and/or try and get away with doing the minimum, …and at the same time take the ■■■■ out of, and treat with contempt and amusement those who take these things oooooh sooooo seriously.

[coolrider]

robroy:

bald bloke:

robroy:
Firstly I am not the best one to give advice on driver hours, wtd and all the rest of such bull crap,as I aint really interested, even though I stick to the former category of rules, rather than the latter.

The only wtd thing I carry out is the 15 min in 6 hr thing, and that is not done conciously, it is just the way it works out as I take my breaks in complying with driver hours regs.

The wtd is a complete sham, embellished with the poa farce to make it look on the surface that we are not working ridiculous hours, aka confidence trick/ cop out.
This is illustrated by the fact that nobody has been actually hammered in offence terms (afaik anyway) for not strictly adhering to it to the letter of the actual ‘wtd law’ apart from in addition to drivers hours infringemenas already stated.

When you think about it the DVSA could make a fortune out of it if they took it as seriously as E8b’s bezzy mate but the fact that they do not, illustrates my point.

But the larger companies such as mine take the WTD seriously and if I continually had these type of infringement’s it would possibly lead to some extra training and possible disciplinary action, I’m sure there are lots of smaller firms out there who perhaps turn a blind eye to it.

That is the problem with this country mate, all these bloody stupid derisory schemes are chucked at us, and the habitual conformist types jump at it with great gusto, and treat them with the utmost priority of importance.
An example the DCPC which is oh so genuine and oh so important, yet the country that devised it did not fully comply until the last minute, and even then in a casual manner according to a couple of Belgian ex workmates of mine.
Then the Dutch got a stay of execution on it last time I was talking to a VOS driver (one of the few Dutchmen left there btw)

The rest of us that are realists see these sort of crap money making scams and con tricks for what they really are, and treat them accordingly, by complying for only as much as we HAVE to, to prevent us from getting bit on the arse, and/or try and get away with doing the minimum, …and at the same time take the ■■■■ out of, and treat with contempt and amusement those who take these things oooooh sooooo seriously.

You might well be right Robroy but I don’t make the rules as you don’t but because my names on the O licence I have to take them more seriously than you.

I do find it strange though that you wanted stobarts to take your complaint seriously and moaned on here when they never, initially.

Certain things matter more to different people!

Believe me when I tell you this. I was a driver for 20 years before becoming a TM and never realised in all them 20 how mush the rules and regs can effect people.

Without repeating my self as I have mentioned it in the past but when I was heavily involved in the fatal incident every step that driver made leading up to the incident was looked at with no expense spared.

Believe me when I tell you they look at bloody everything.

You might find that stupid you might find that a waste of time.

That’s fine you can tell that blokes wife that who’s sadly been widowed now for a few years!

You sit with that women, you listen to her and you look at the pictures of a once happy family up on the wall. You soon start taking things a bit more seriously !

[rog]

Hopefully in the next few years the UK Govt will scrap the WTD and many other useless laws we got from the EU

I also hope they will replace all the UK tacho laws with something more sensible and easier to understand and enforce

[coolrider]

ROG:
Hopefully in the next few years the UK Govt will scrap the WTD and many other useless laws we got from the EU

I also hope they will replace all the UK tacho laws with something more sensible and easier to understand and enforce

Totally agree with Rog.

[robroy]

Coolrider:
Robroy the reason I take it so seriously is because I’m a TM in a large company and as such it’s my job to do it.

That isn’t a brag btw because if I’m honest I would rather be back on the road driving as it’s much easier believe me!

All name calling aside from my favourite driver on here I’m fully aware of the rules for many reasons, namely having reasonably regular meetings with DVSA and actually having a couple of good mates on that side.

Do I know everything? Absolutely not. If I’m unsure of anything I don’t give advise without finding out the facts first, not opinion but facts!

As boldbloke quite rightly points out the larger, more reputable companies will enforce it as will the DVSA. That’s from their mouth.

As you made such a song and dance about a stobarts driver in the incident involving your daughter I thought you might appreciate TMs like and me and company’s sticking by the rules. Oh but hold on perhaps they might not involve your daughter so it’s ok then!

BTW on that subject I’ve just given one of our drivers a written warning only last week for an incident that got reported to me similar to the one you describe!

All I’ll say to you is after you reporting said Stobarts driver I only hope you drive like a saint for the rest of your driving career.

One thing I will say to you all, and it probably won’t come as a surprise to many but some of the DVSA do look at this site and in fact I’ve had some posts on here mentioned to me by them. Fact.

The internet is a wonderful thing but anybody can access anything and that’s why I have a particular problem with some of the bull that gets written on here!

It certainly doesn’t do our industry any good with some of the knowledge, or lack of, and answers that get written on here!

You were doing so well mate there until you mentioned my daughter. …very dodgy ground, and an Achille’s heel situation.

I have said clearly I stick by, and to, drivers hours rules, and on the whole agree with the broader outline of them, and fully appreciate they are there for safety on the roads primarily.

It is the ott pedantry side and shear complexity of it on the other hand, which gets right up my cavity.
There is no real need for it, and the rules could be revised to a more simpler system without compromising any road safety issues.

As for wtd I have stated my views which I stick by, and have no intention of repeating them.
So,… as far as Mr Teararse in his Stobby motor is concerned, I do not give a flying ■■■■ whether or not he had booked other work instead of poa on his tacho while getting tipped a week last tuesday or whatever or any other ■■■■ triviality … and I resent your use of the phrase ‘Making a song and dance’ over my daughter nearly ending up under the front wheels of this ■■■■ heads unit, as if it was as trivial as a wtd contravention.

I fully understand the responsibility of a TM after having owned a small fleet in the 80s and 90s, admittedly a less stricter period, but no need for you to explain anything in this field, been, done t.shirt etc etc.

As for driving like a Saint, no definitely not, but neither do I drive like a complete ■■■■ as your Stobby driver you brougbt up.

[colin_scottish]

Rob just have a square go with him.Hes just a gubshite who likes to troll and ■■■■ people off.Also hes still a newbie but by the sound of it he knows everything and will tell anyone who listens hes a driving god.

[robroy]

Colin_scottish:
Rob just have a square go with him.Hes just a gubshite who likes to troll and ■■■■ people off.Also hes still a newbie but by the sound of it he knows everything and will tell anyone who listens hes a driving god.

To be fair he made a couple of valid points, but mentioning either of my girls in a negative, direspectful, or in this case trivial way is a red rag and bull situation to me.

Oh and he upset ‘ma boy’ as well btw.

[evil8beezle]

Coolrider:
Fail to see where I said it was.

I pointed out the rules and said what they were.

I don’t think I’ll be taking any advise on anything from you pair in the near future!

It’s a shame F Reds doesn’t want to expand on why he was advising people that you can ignore a 7.5 ton weight limit as long you use the shortest route!

The only thing I might be guilty of is writing it down wrong but I’m not a qualified key board warrior like trucknets number 1 agency guy on here!

So you are saying the statement below, that YOU made is correct then?

Coolrider:
You dont need 30 mins breaK for WTD after 6 hrs. You need 15 mins before it and another 15 before 9 hrs

As to me this is clearly saying that you have to take 30mins before 9 hours has expired, which is wrong!

So I edited your post with a FTFY (Fixed That For You) to this:

Coolrider:
You dont need 30 mins breaK for WTD after 6 hrs. You need 15 mins before it, and another 15 if working between 6 & 9 hours.

So it’s a bit rich that you want to have a pop at F-reds and whether he’s fit to hold a managers CPC, when you can’t get the rules right yourself. You have suggested he hands his back, so will you do the same? It appears you are less fit to hold one, as when F-reds made a minor mistake about going into weight limited areas, he held his hands up the instant someone corrected him. He didn’t try to ignore his error or deflect attention away!

You are the one who has attacked other members, just as you did in your initial attack on me many months ago, when I suggested Newbies take their test in an Auto to make their life easier. Yes that doesn’t prepare them to drive a Manual if required at some later stage, but I didn’t say anything about that, and my view on that is that if you feel they need training in a Manual, they should get some. Plus I don’t make the rules pal, and if you have a problem with that and have ‘mates’ in positions of power, why don’t you take it up with them?

You also tried to get offended on behalf of others when I referred to another member as a coffin-dodger, which he was fine about, as he knew very well it was only banter… Well I get called a limper, and now you’ve set yourself up as the acceptability police, will you now get offended on my behalf please? Not that I give a crap as to me it’s again just banter, but it appears some others on here do, so maybe you should do it for them, or possibly the children!

On the topic of WTD and getting it right! Maybe as you care so passionately, you can use your obvious ‘influence’ to get the Tacho manufacturers to actually include it in the software to help drivers out. And while you’re there, perhaps you can have a word about POA as well. As the way I see it, if the power that be care so much about it, why isn’t it properly integrated into the Tacho?

As for me though (before you claim I don’t respect it) I have to follow it to the letter as my firm has a zero tolerance approach.

[colin_scottish]

Evil as far as i know the POA part of the tacho is used by the germans.They use the POA to record a driving/rest during there shift.Once they book off for a daily rest period or a weekly rest they use the bed setting.If im wrong or have got mixed up feel free to correct me.

[evil8beezle]

Colin_scottish:
Evil as far as i know the POA part of the tacho is used by the germans.They use the POA to record a driving/rest during there shift.Once they book off for a daily rest period or a weekly rest they use the bed setting.If im wrong or have got mixed up feel free to correct me.

Cheers for that!
I’m no expert on POA as up until this latest job I’d never been told to use it at times instead of break.
The bit that annoys me is that it resets your driving time, leaving you having to work out how much driving time you have left.

[coolrider]

robroy:

Colin_scottish:
Rob just have a square go with him.Hes just a gubshite who likes to troll and ■■■■ people off.Also hes still a newbie but by the sound of it he knows everything and will tell anyone who listens hes a driving god.

To be fair he made a couple of valid points, but mentioning either of my girls in a negative, direspectful, or in this case trivial way is a red rag and bull situation to me.

Oh and he upset ‘ma boy’ as well btw.

Robroy my point about your daughter was actually saying that I think you have double standards when it comes to safety.

For the record I actually agree with you that said stobby driver was a ■■■■ and could have potentially caused your daughter harm. If you see above post I’ve just disciplined a driver for a similar thing so I’d hardly say I don’t care.

You seem to say I take things a bit too seriously for your liking . What I’m saying to you is yes I do because I have to.

What I’m also saying is that although I agree with you about stobby driving being a tool is that I bet you’ve blasted the horns in your time and given a few gestures at someone’s wife, daughter, son etc.

In terms of me being a newbie and a troll ha ha ha.

Trust me when I tell you if I had me time again I would run a mile from this game.

Defiantly no newbie I’m afraid to say

[colin_scottish]

Evil8Beezle:

Colin_scottish:
Evil as far as i know the POA part of the tacho is used by the germans.They use the POA to record a driving/rest during there shift.Once they book off for a daily rest period or a weekly rest they use the bed setting.If im wrong or have got mixed up feel free to correct me.

Cheers for that!
I’m no expert on POA as up until this latest job I’d never been told to use it at times instead of break.
The bit that annoys me is that it resets your driving time, leaving you having to work out how much driving time you have left.

If your using a unit with a stoneridge tacho go into the info menu when you start you poa time and it will tell you.But you need to check it before it record a full 45 or 30 if you had taken a 15 min.It will tell you your total for the day and how much you have drove of your current 4.5 hour period.

[evil8beezle]

Colin_scottish:

Evil8Beezle:

Colin_scottish:
Evil as far as i know the POA part of the tacho is used by the germans.They use the POA to record a driving/rest during there shift.Once they book off for a daily rest period or a weekly rest they use the bed setting.If im wrong or have got mixed up feel free to correct me.

Cheers for that!
I’m no expert on POA as up until this latest job I’d never been told to use it at times instead of break.
The bit that annoys me is that it resets your driving time, leaving you having to work out how much driving time you have left.

If your using a unit with a stoneridge tacho go into the info menu when you start you poa time and it will tell you.But you need to check it before it record a full 45 or 30 if you had taken a 15 min.It will tell you your total for the day and how much you have drove of your current 4.5 hour period.

Cheers again, but we don’t have Stoneridge Tacho’s.
But to be fair it’s not hard to work out, it’s just annoying and not helpful…
I generally do a print out and check that, I’m not paying for the rolls!

[robroy]

Coolrider:

robroy:

Colin_scottish:
Rob just have a square go with him.Hes just a gubshite who likes to troll and ■■■■ people off.Also hes still a newbie but by the sound of it he knows everything and will tell anyone who listens hes a driving god.

To be fair he made a couple of valid points, but mentioning either of my girls in a negative, direspectful, or in this case trivial way is a red rag and bull situation to me.

Oh and he upset ‘ma boy’ as well btw.

Robroy my point about your daughter was actually saying that I think you have double standards when it comes to safety.

For the record I actually agree with you that said stobby driver was a ■■■■ and could have potentially caused your daughter harm. If you see above post I’ve just disciplined a driver for a similar thing so I’d hardly say I don’t care.

You seem to say I take things a bit too seriously for your liking . What I’m saying to you is yes I do because I have to.

What I’m also saying is that although I agree with you about stobby driving being a tool is that I bet you’ve blasted the horns in your time and given a few gestures at someone’s wife, daughter, son etc.

In terms of me being a newbie and a troll ha ha ha.

Trust me when I tell you if I had me time again I would run a mile from this game.

Defiantly no newbie I’m afraid to say

You need to explain that one mate.
The only way I would/could have double standards if I came on and said
‘I flount tacho rules myself, speed and teararse about regularly, but I think Stobarts driver could have been more careful regardi g my daughter’’
(btw Blasting horns was not the issue, right up the arse of the car panicking her causing her to make a dangerous move was, …again something I never do.)

No…I’ve looked still can’t see where. On the contrary in fact, I have said and repeated that I stick to the rules, the fact that I said they are ridiculous in some cases is another argument for another day.
I also said snd stick by that wtd is complete ■■■■■■■■ and nothing to do with safety.
So can you explain what you mean mate.

[santa]

When I did multidrop, I always tried to get a 15 minute break in as early as possible. Unless you work for an employer who is constantly on your back, it’s not hard to organise. Getting loaded and out of the yard was always a scramble in the morning, so I had a favourite layby where I would pull in, pour a coffee and sort through the day’s paperwork so that I had it clear in my head. Sometimes I would notice something I had missed like - must be before 10am, or something, but 15 minutes soon goes and then you are good until the drops are done and the collections start.

I would often check the load as well, just to double check that nothing was going to fall over.

[roymondo]

Santa:
When I did multidrop, I always tried to get a 15 minute break in as early as possible. Unless you work for an employer who is constantly on your back, it’s not hard to organise. Getting loaded and out of the yard was always a scramble in the morning, so I had a favourite layby where I would pull in, pour a coffee and sort through the day’s paperwork so that I had it clear in my head. Sometimes I would notice something I had missed like - must be before 10am, or something, but 15 minutes soon goes and then you are good until the drops are done and the collections start.

I would often check the load as well, just to double check that nothing was going to fall over.

I understand exactly where you are coming from with this (and I do much the same myself if truth be told) - But checking paperwork, load security etc should be recorded as Other Work, not Break.

Sent using smoke and mirrors

[the_nodding_donkey]

Santa:
When I did multidrop, I always tried to get a 15 minute break in as early as possible. Unless you work for an employer who is constantly on your back, it’s not hard to organise. Getting loaded and out of the yard was always a scramble in the morning, so I had a favourite layby where I would pull in, pour a coffee and sort through the day’s paperwork so that I had it clear in my head. Sometimes I would notice something I had missed like - must be before 10am, or something, but 15 minutes soon goes and then you are good until the drops are done and the collections start.

I would often check the load as well, just to double check that nothing was going to fall over.

Checking your paperwork and load, during your break?

[shuttlespanker]

chainmailguy:
My understanding is once you have took a 15 min break youre good to 9 hours after your start time as on a 9 hour shift you just need a 15 min break

Subject to driving time obviously

I may be wrong but was never called out for it

you are being called out on it now

your understanding is wrong

once you have had a 15 minute break, at NO LATER than 6 hours working time, you are good for a further 6 hours working time, at which time, you must take a further 15 minute break (EU Driving time permitted)

there is no requirement to have had 30 minutes break before 9 hours, if you are going to be working more than 9 hours

example…

if your total duty time is 15 hours, with no POA, and your total driving time is less than 4 hours 30 minutes, it is perfectly legal to do the following…

work time = 6 hours
break = 15 minutes
work time = 6 hours
break = 15 minutes
work time 2 hours
break = 15 minutes
work time = 15 minutes

all rules of the WTD that can be applied, have been applied and adhered to