What is the penalty for a driver who is found to not be complying with the WTD?
So long as you’re keeping within the tacho regs and not showing more than the allowed “working time” how easy is it for them to prove you’ve being bending the rules or breaking them, just by tacho inspections etc? For instance, if I have to wait somewhere for two hours, and I record that two hours as poa (sandwich box mode) or rest, can the ministry, without actually witnessening me do otherwise, prove that I was doing something contray to what my tacho says, such as being in the back helping with loading/tipping?
Ignoring the fact that you shouldn’t be helping with the unloading, while on rest, they would have a difficult job proving whether or not you were on a POA.
Can you imagine them going to a company in a few months time and saying: “On the 4th of November 2005, while Mr Laurie Driver was on your premises waiting to be unloaded did you advise him of the likely length of his wait, so he could claim the two hours he waited as a POA, or is he pulling a fast one?”
You may also consider that the WTD is Employment Legislation rather than road or traffic regulations, therefore the accent is more upon ‘compliance’ rather than prosecution.
From the ‘Guidelines’ to the Directive,
Penalties
VOSA’s aim is to educate employers and employees about their entitlement and responsibilities under the new regulations. Much of this will take place on an informal basis.
However, if formal action is required VOSA will use:
improvement notices - to notify the employer of a likely breach of the regulations and to set out the changes that need to be made in a given timescale
enforcement notices - requiring the employer to stop a dangerous activity, or to start complying with the regulations
Ultimately, the Courts have a system of fines and custodial sentences that can be applied to anyone who persistently contravenes the regulations.
And to be quite honest, until the rest of the European Union fully implements these rules, then I can’t see VOSA rushing to push people through the Court system. After all, the Government made an ■■■ of itself with the furore over ‘Metric Martyrs’ and I can’t see them allowing any department to rush headlong into any similarly embarrassing situation.
They’ve still got to make sure that all companies understand the rules before enforcing them. I do agency work & one of my agencies (part of a largish group) doesn’t seem to have done anything about the WTD - in fact they still insist that their working week runs from 00.00 Sunday as it always has done & as their customers (some very large nationals) still want it to. I was actually queried as to why I was letting them know what hours I’d done with other agencies!.
When situations like this still exist I think VOSA have got more to worry about than individual drivers possibly pulling the odd fast one.
robinhood_1984:
What is the penalty for a driver who is found to not be complying with the WTD?
So long as you’re keeping within the tacho regs and not showing more than the allowed “working time” how easy is it for them to prove you’ve being bending the rules or breaking them, just by tacho inspections etc? For instance, if I have to wait somewhere for two hours, and I record that two hours as poa (sandwich box mode) or rest, can the ministry, without actually witnessening me do otherwise, prove that I was doing something contray to what my tacho says, such as being in the back helping with loading/tipping?
My understanding of the technical details of the WTD is pretty minimum but what if I was to continue driving the same way I do now by only using the rest and sandwich box mode on my tacho? I have never used the cross hammers box before and until the WTD came in, I’d never heard of anyone else using it either. My main complaint about all this is the complicated nature of the rules that mean constant changing of modes and then the problem of accurately recording every single mode change and lenth of time in each mode, which couid end up being mountains of paperwork, and even then you’ve got the risk of forgetting to change your tacho mode and then getting into a right pickle later when you try and figure out your hours. At the moment I always leave my tacho on the sandwich box mode unless I’m having a break or I’m tipping somewhere and I know I’ll be there more than 15 minutes, then I’ll flick it onto rest if I feel like it, I know I’m not supposed to do this under the WTD, but can I actually get done for it 15 weeks down the line? given that I havent yet used the Cross Hammers mode, won’t they atleast be able to tell that I’m not correctly following the rules and do me for that?
No problem doing it that way, it would be down to them to prove what was a POA and what wasn’t. The use of crossed hammers is only advisory, not compulsory.
One simple question : If there seems to be no consensus on an EU constitution at the moment then how would the WTD hold up in a European court if Mr Laurie Driver were to transgress the rules in country which would be considered foreign to him
Woody:
One simple question : If there seems to be no consensus on an EU constitution at the moment then how would the WTD hold up in a European court if Mr Laurie Driver were to transgress the rules in country which would be considered foreign to him
Do you mean if the driver got checked in a foreign country or if the the wtd (foreign law) was checked here in Britain?
I know that the enforcement if any, can only be carried out in the country the truck is registered in (or so I believe) so in theory, a British driver driving one of the numerous Dutch trucks in Britain, is totally exempt firstly because he is not the concern of Vosa with regards the WTD and secondly because as far as I know, the Dutch government haven’t actually made the WTD a law there yet.
Coffeeholic:
No problem doing it that way, it would be down to them to prove what was a POA and what wasn’t. The use of crossed hammers is only advisory, not compulsory.
Thats good to know. So does this mean that I can pretty much drive the same as before, ie just following tacho regs and in theory my working time which makes up the 48hr thing will just be made up of driving with a bit of time added on for daily checks etc?
robinhood_1984:
Thats good to know. So does this mean that I can pretty much drive the same as before, ie just following tacho regs and in theory my working time which makes up the 48hr thing will just be made up of driving with a bit of time added on for daily checks etc?
If it applied to me that is what I would be doing.
Coffeeholic:
If it applied to me that is what I would be doing.
Thanks. Thats what I am currently doing and will continue to do. There is no way on earth that I am going to mess around like some people do with constant mode changing, potentially every 5 minutes or less when tipping/loading or on multidrop and then trying to work it all out later and then as a reward for all my mathmatic work, I’m actually putting myself into a position of maybe losing out on money a few weeks down the line.
Well, RH-1984: Now that you mention it there may a number of scenario’s - I’ll mention a few:
Eg 1) Britsh driver driving a " European Truck" in the UK
Eg 2) A German registered truck and driver operating in France or visa versa
Eg 3) A “European driver” driving a UK truck in the UK …
… and so the permutations can vary.
I just don’t think the WTD would hold water if an ace of a lawyer got hold of it in a court in any given “European country” Food for thought me thinks
I like many other lazy drivers have started leaving my mode on rest… But i must admit im unsure whether or not i can get into trouble for this and what to use for an excuse if mr vosa asked to see my tacho’s
Am i leaving myself wide open to persicution (sorry i mean prosecution) or will they be more worried about my actual driving times to even bother batting an eyelid at the my blatent mode selection errors
Reef:
I like many other lazy drivers have started leaving my mode on rest… But i must admit im unsure whether or not i can get into trouble for this and what to use for an excuse if mr vosa asked to see my tacho’s
Am i leaving myself wide open to persicution (sorry i mean prosecution) or will they be more worried about my actual driving times to even bother batting an eyelid at the my blatent mode selection errors
I have been assured by several people who should know what they’re talking about that under tacho regs it is perfectly fine to leave your mode on rest. You should technically put it onto the sandwich box mode showing duty/working when you do things like open and close curtains, secure loads etc but like everything else, its nigh on impossible to prove what you were or werent doing several weeks later and no one is going to bother changing their mode just for the sake of 3 or 4 minutes. At the moment like I have said I leave my tacho on the sandwich box mode and it stays there unless I have a break or I’m tipping somewhere and I’ll be there for any length of time. By doing this, in my eyes atleast it does look like I’m doing things a little more properly, on face value it looks like I made a concious descision to change my mode, rather than like a lot do, and I did to to start with, leave it on rest because then even the sligtest stop at a trafic light features and its obvious what you’re up to but I wouldn’t worry about it, most drivers I know have their tacho on constant rest and my dad for example has never changed his mode from rest since he first started driving trucks in Britain in the late 80s and he’s been checked God knows how many times by Vosa and nothing has ever happened.
Reef:
I like many other lazy drivers have started leaving my mode on rest… But i must admit im unsure whether or not i can get into trouble for this and what to use for an excuse if mr vosa asked to see my tacho’s
Am i leaving myself wide open to persicution (sorry i mean prosecution) or will they be more worried about my actual driving times to even bother batting an eyelid at the my blatent mode selection errors
Better to leave it on square and move it to bed when taking a break. If you are only showing driving and resting then they may look a bit more closely than if you were showing a mix of driving, work and rest.
Hypothetically you could also leave yourself wide open if you are stopped and a defect is found on the vehicle, or if a wheel was to come off for instance. You have no record of having done your daily checks, no other work recorded on disc so you can’t have done them as far as VOSA are concerned, and you wouldn’t have a leg to stand on.
robinhood_1984:
Is there a set time eg 5/10 minutes that you must take every day for daily checks or is it just a matter of how long it takes and thats it?
Out of interest, I have just played the part of a Vosa video that deals with Walk-round checks, and they covered it in six minutes.(curtain sided artic.)
robinhood_1984:
Is there a set time eg 5/10 minutes that you must take every day for daily checks or is it just a matter of how long it takes and thats it?
Out of interest, I have just played the part of a Vosa video that deals with Walk-round checks, and they covered it in six minutes.(curtain sided artic.)
Thats alright then because I have always added atleast 20 minutes onto my total working time, 10 for checks and 10 for paperwork at the end of the day.
TESCO 
: If there seems to be no consensus on an EU constitution at the moment then how would the WTD hold up in a European court if Mr Laurie Driver were to transgress the rules in country which would be considered foreign to him 
