Hi there just wanted some advice. I currently drive for one of the supermarkets doing online delivery in a 3.5t van, so therefore are only subject to Domestic Driver Regulations, however in the new year i will be starting a new job driving a 18t tipper. Initially the tipper job is going to be part-time more of a releif driver but the bloke has told me he is looking for it to become full time as work builds up, and in which case id be looking to leave the supermarket and go full time on the tipper. Was just wondering how to combine the two jobs regarding driver hours regualtions as one is subject to EU and the other just Domestic. I am aware of all the EU rules regarding driving hours etc but cant seem to find too much on combining the two. I am currently doing 34hrs at the supermarket, split over 4 shifts however one shift of 8hrs is soley in the yard loading vans, the other 3 are a combination of multi-drop driving and other work. Any advice would be gratefully received as this is my first HGV job, also do i need to make a manual record of the work i do with the supermarket?
Drivers hours
dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/R … Europe.pdf
This has been done in the newbies forum but as long as you dont exceed the WTD & keep a record of the non EU hours
Or ask Jenni as think she combines both
One is off card and the other one is on card with 2 completely separate companies, who is going to know except you. Don’t need to get your knickers in a twist.
merc0447:
One is off card and the other one is on card with 2 completely separate companies, who is going to know except you. Don’t need to get your knickers in a twist.
I always thought vosa could check your ni number or did i fall for a mmtm story
merc0447:
One is off card and the other one is on card with 2 completely separate companies, who is going to know except you. Don’t need to get your knickers in a twist.
Tbh that’s how I see it, if you don’t need to use the Tacho then it doesn’t need to be recorded.
nearly there:
merc0447:
One is off card and the other one is on card with 2 completely separate companies, who is going to know except you. Don’t need to get your knickers in a twist.I always thought vosa could check your ni number or did i fall for a mmtm story
they don’t, but some checkpoints have vosa, police, UKBA, and DWP (and they do).
■■■■ cavity checks will be compulsory in 2016. KY jelly must be supplied by the operator.
if i was doing two jobs, and as it happens i am.
i keep my trap shut.
If you did not mention to VOSA on a stop in the tipper that you were also working elsewhere and they get suspicious then they can easily check through your tax records etc
Easily suspicious if you are only doing P/T tipper work because one of the questions if you say that is your only job might be - what benefits are you claiming and if the answer is none then other searching questions are liable to be asked
If the other job is off the books then …
I have never heard of van drivers being stopped and asked about other work they do but perhaps others have …
Best practice is to stay legal for the EU regs because the authorities are hot on enforcing those
Tachograph produced a legal way of driving under EU regs for one day in two weekends out of three on this site if in a non EU driving job from mon to fri but I am unsure whether that would work if domestic records were available to the authorities
dew:
merc0447:
One is off card and the other one is on card with 2 completely separate companies, who is going to know except you. Don’t need to get your knickers in a twist.Tbh that’s how I see it, if you don’t need to use the Tacho then it doesn’t need to be recorded.
There are rules under EU regs where other work must be legally recorded so it is taking a chance not to get caught and fined for not keeping the correct records
Easy, the other line of work is for a supermarket, just tell them if asked your shelf stacking or some other in store job, no driving involved. As long as the payslips don’t say “Driver” on them then there’s no real way they can track it back, nor would they bother.
I’ve never bothered keeping logs or anything for the last 3yr + driving a 3.5T, un needed paperwork imo.
ROG:
one of the questions if you say that is your only job might be - what benefits are you claiming and if the answer is none then other searching questions are liable to be asked
my wife works.
or
i do this to keep my hand in. i retired years ago.
or
i won the lottery.
dew:
Easy, the other line of work is for a supermarket, just tell them if asked your shelf stacking or some other in store job, no driving involved.
That is other work for the EU regs if any EU regs driving was done in that fixed week so it comes back to - do you want to take the risk?
Maybe its been a while since you’ve had a full roadside check rog but the only things vosa ask you is what time you started, where you started, where your heading and what your cargo is. Then they take your charts into the porta cabin and scan them. They dont ask you what you do in your spare time. They are just wheel tappers. No way on this earth could they get access to confidential inland revenue records at the roadside maybe in a full blown company investigation they could.
Just keep quiet about it, yout just going to create a load of hassle for yourself and everyone you work for is gonna get the hump.
You could fanny about sticking to the rules but your going to struggle to climb the ladder in this game espically with the way things are, not suggesting running 24hours a day but abit extra here and there and a relaxed but mindful approach to rules is the key.
At my work if you use a van it must be put in your log book same as if you use a hgv it must be logged
Trucker-Lass22:
Hi there just wanted some advice. I currently drive for one of the supermarkets doing online delivery in a 3.5t van, so therefore are only subject to Domestic Driver Regulations, however in the new year i will be starting a new job driving a 18t tipper. Initially the tipper job is going to be part-time more of a releif driver but the bloke has told me he is looking for it to become full time as work builds up, and in which case id be looking to leave the supermarket and go full time on the tipper. Was just wondering how to combine the two jobs regarding driver hours regualtions as one is subject to EU and the other just Domestic. I am aware of all the EU rules regarding driving hours etc but cant seem to find too much on combining the two. I am currently doing 34hrs at the supermarket, split over 4 shifts however one shift of 8hrs is soley in the yard loading vans, the other 3 are a combination of multi-drop driving and other work. Any advice would be gratefully received as this is my first HGV job, also do i need to make a manual record of the work i do with the supermarket?
The way i see it is, your only doing 4 x 8 hour shifts for the supermarket, which would count as WTD/domestic regs.
Now unless you were driving a tipper after working for the supermarket all day until the wee small hours and then jumping back in the merc van for a day turn which is very unlikely, then you’ve nothing to worry about.
I can’t see either that your weekly rest would be a problem because lets say for arguments sake you worked the 5th day and 6th day driving the truck and finished at 17.00hrs Saturday night, You’d still have taken 36 hours of your weekly rest in up until 05.00 hrs monday morning (assuming you started back at the supermarket at 5!) and so owing 9 hours rest. You will have paid that back easily durring the following week because of the short 8 hour shifts you do at the supermarket- Monday to Thursday!!
Dont worry about it. It’l be fine.
For all intents and purposes, look at it as “one job”, not two and it will be alot more straightforward. ie, some days you’l do all “other work” and some days you’l do some driving and other work which will be recorded by a tacho. The authoritys dont care that you could have a dozern jobs just that your not working over 16 hours a day (which is a moot point anyway!) or driving more than 9 or 10 hours a day and having no weekly rest! Those are the important ones.
Anyone please correct me if im wrong but i dont see any problem.
I wold keep a record though if it were me.
Gembo:
I wold keep a record though if it were me.
I agree with everything other than this quote.
Saaamon:
Gembo:
I wold keep a record though if it were me.I agree with everything other than this quote.
There ya go then, even easier!! Job’s a good’en 
I am a little disappointed to read how many people give advice to break the law. 
Once you drive a vehicle in scope of the EU rules within a fixed week you are legally obliged to record all periods of work or POA including work for other employers (Page 39 of the GV262-03). You have legal obligations to carry a record of all other work carried out prior to driving that vehicle in that week. There are other obligations regarding weekly rest etc but you say you know the EU rules so will know that.
This means, amongst your 28 days of records you are legally required to carry, you would need either an analogue chart with your other work activities written on (just start and finish times are sufficient), or a digital print out with the same, or you would need to manually enter the domestic work into the digi tacho when logging in. This way there would be no gaps in your records.
If pulled by VOSA in the 18t, one of the things they look for are gaps in the records. They will generally ask about the gaps, especially where they don’t seem to fit a normal working pattern i.e. days missing mid-week. You could answer those questions with false staements as suggested - if these are uncovered the penalties will be quite severe compared to a little fixed penalty. Falsification of records■■?
VOSA aren’t daft (although some may disagree). They know people generally don’t survive financially off a few days driving and will suspect you do work elsewhere even if it isn’t transport related. If they are doing their job properly they will persue this matter to satisfy their curiosity. of course you may get a VOSA officer who doesn’t bother.
If on the other hand you let on that yesterday you were working at a supermarket and not driving the 18t (whether shelf stacking or 3.5t van driving) the result will almost certainly be a delayed prohibition (possibly an immediate) to take 9 or 11 hours rest. I have seen this happen numerous times. No records of other work - prohibition issued to make sure you get sufficient rest. They could also dole out a graduated fixed penalty to you.
WHoever you are working for in the 18t will not by any means appreciate a prohibition of any kind being issued. You won’t be able to hide it as it will be posted to them. The new OCRS scoring system will mean this would count heavily against them.
Of course VOSA may not just leave it at that either and may persue other matters, visit the 18t company and investigate further. I suppose that may depend on their current OCRS rating.
I know the MD of a haulage company that was pulled on a Saturday morning driving an artic. A delayed prohibition was issued because he did not have records of work done in that week. He now completes an analogue chart for every working day. Name, date, start and finish times. If he goes out in a wagon he takes them with him. You do read of drivers having diaries or time sheets to show this other work - but the rules state the only official records are analogue charts, digi print out or entered onto the driver card. An official domestic hours log book may be used if it was legally required for the domestic activities - your 3.5t van driving doesn’t require it, therefore it doesn’t count.
It is really quite simple. On the days you work domestic - fill out an analogue chart with name, date start and finish times (or use the back of a digi roll). Carry it just like a tacho when in the 18t. Hand it in to your 18t employer as you normally would. If the 18t is going to be digital - beginning of each shift do a manual entry for the day/s you worked driving the 3.5t during that fixed week. You might want to enter your breaks as well. This isn’t legally required for the domestic duties but - it’ll help keep the working time down for the WTD(RTD) and your 18t employer may appreciate this.
Of course your 18t employer may not know about your other activities but you should really tell him to cover both your backs.
If you might carry out mixed domestic and EU in the same day/shift remember the driving of the 3.5t counts as work for the EU rules BUT, on a day where mixed domestic and EU activities take place the Domestic limits of 10 hours driving and 11 hours duty MUST still be obeyed as well as the EU rules (Page 29 GV262-03) … although how the authorities would enforce this I don’t know (or even if they would).
A lot of people are going to disagree with my post and stick with ‘what VOSA doesn’t see VOSA doesn’t know about’. All I’ll add is that should something unfortunate happen whilst driving the 18t and it comes out you were working elsewhere, your 18t employer didn’t know or if he did and didn’t ask for records etc etc etc it can be the difference between hassle and serious hassle. Yeah I’m all doom and gloom me
shep532:
I am a little disappointed to read how many people give advice to break the law.Once you drive a vehicle in scope of the EU rules within a fixed week you are legally obliged to record all periods of work or POA including work for other employers (Page 39 of the GV262-03). You have legal obligations to carry a record of all other work carried out prior to driving that vehicle in that week. There are other obligations regarding weekly rest etc but you say you know the EU rules so will know that.
This means, amongst your 28 days of records you are legally required to carry, you would need either an analogue chart with your other work activities written on (just start and finish times are sufficient), or a digital print out with the same, or you would need to manually enter the domestic work into the digi tacho when logging in. This way there would be no gaps in your records.
If pulled by VOSA in the 18t, one of the things they look for are gaps in the records. They will generally ask about the gaps, especially where they don’t seem to fit a normal working pattern i.e. days missing mid-week. You could answer those questions with false staements as suggested - if these are uncovered the penalties will be quite severe compared to a little fixed penalty. Falsification of records■■?
VOSA aren’t daft (although some may disagree). They know people generally don’t survive financially off a few days driving and will suspect you do work elsewhere even if it isn’t transport related. If they are doing their job properly they will persue this matter to satisfy their curiosity. of course you may get a VOSA officer who doesn’t bother.
If on the other hand you let on that yesterday you were working at a supermarket and not driving the 18t (whether shelf stacking or 3.5t van driving) the result will almost certainly be a delayed prohibition (possibly an immediate) to take 9 or 11 hours rest. I have seen this happen numerous times. No records of other work - prohibition issued to make sure you get sufficient rest. They could also dole out a graduated fixed penalty to you.
WHoever you are working for in the 18t will not by any means appreciate a prohibition of any kind being issued. You won’t be able to hide it as it will be posted to them. The new OCRS scoring system will mean this would count heavily against them.
Of course VOSA may not just leave it at that either and may persue other matters, visit the 18t company and investigate further. I suppose that may depend on their current OCRS rating.
I know the MD of a haulage company that was pulled on a Saturday morning driving an artic. A delayed prohibition was issued because he did not have records of work done in that week. He now completes an analogue chart for every working day. Name, date, start and finish times. If he goes out in a wagon he takes them with him. You do read of drivers having diaries or time sheets to show this other work - but the rules state the only official records are analogue charts, digi print out or entered onto the driver card. An official domestic hours log book may be used if it was legally required for the domestic activities - your 3.5t van driving doesn’t require it, therefore it doesn’t count.
It is really quite simple. On the days you work domestic - fill out an analogue chart with name, date start and finish times (or use the back of a digi roll). Carry it just like a tacho when in the 18t. Hand it in to your 18t employer as you normally would. If the 18t is going to be digital - beginning of each shift do a manual entry for the day/s you worked driving the 3.5t during that fixed week. You might want to enter your breaks as well. This isn’t legally required for the domestic duties but - it’ll help keep the working time down for the WTD(RTD) and your 18t employer may appreciate this.
Of course your 18t employer may not know about your other activities but you should really tell him to cover both your backs.
If you might carry out mixed domestic and EU in the same day/shift remember the driving of the 3.5t counts as work for the EU rules BUT, on a day where mixed domestic and EU activities take place the Domestic limits of 10 hours driving and 11 hours duty MUST still be obeyed as well as the EU rules (Page 29 GV262-03) … although how the authorities would enforce this I don’t know (or even if they would).
A lot of people are going to disagree with my post and stick with ‘what VOSA doesn’t see VOSA doesn’t know about’. All I’ll add is that should something unfortunate happen whilst driving the 18t and it comes out you were working elsewhere, your 18t employer didn’t know or if he did and didn’t ask for records etc etc etc it can be the difference between hassle and serious hassle. Yeah I’m all doom and gloom me
Couldnt be arsed to read all that ■■■■.
Saaamon:
Couldnt be arsed to read all that [zb].
I can shorten it for you.
Ignore those telling you to keep quiet about the ‘other’ job and keep records as legally required VOSA GV262-03 pages 29 & 39 
Can’t go wrong then eh?