shep532:
Saaamon:
Couldnt be arsed to read all that [zb].I can shorten it for you.
Ignore those telling you to keep quiet about the ‘other’ job and keep records as legally required VOSA GV262-03 pages 29 & 39
Can’t go wrong then eh?
Cheers lol. I’m of the keep quiet opinion, although its not the most “professional” route it is the easiest lol.
Personally, I reckon if you commute to two seperate driving jobs, then you should count your commuting time as part of your working hours, entered as “other work” on your tacho.
Oh, what’s that? - Can’t do an 84 hour week anymore whilst doing that?
What a shame…
We’re not victorian chimney sweeps in this day and age. No one should have to do two jobs, even two part time ones. 
“Having” to do two jobs means you are either living beyond your means or you are riddled with debts.
Cut the fat off the overspent lifestyle and/or default the debts. It ain’t rocket science! The only debt anyone should have is the mortgage.
Divorce, School Fees, Bankruptcies, Over-Commuting, Two Gas-Guzzling Cars, & choosing holidays in expensive places are all optional extras - if anyone cares to LET them be! 
Commuting is own your own time so is not other work - the driver would need to be working for someone for it to be classed as such
If a person can only get a full time job which pays minimum wage and they have to legal opportunity to do another job as well then why should they not be allowed to - I did just that back in the 80s - I had a full and part time job which both paid low wages because I could not get anything better at the time - I saved the money from the part time job to pay for my HGV class 1 
I am a little disappointed to read how many people give advice to break the law.
And people wonder why the jobs FUBAR 
Winseer:
Personally, I reckon if you commute to two seperate driving jobs, then you should count your commuting time as part of your working hours, entered as “other work” on your tacho.
Well you’re entitled to your opinion, but thankfully that doesn’t make it law so it can be safely and legally ignored 
Winseer:
We’re not victorian chimney sweeps in this day and age. No one should have to do two jobs, even two part time ones.
“Having” to do two jobs means you are either living beyond your means or you are riddled with debts.
Cut the fat off the overspent lifestyle and/or default the debts. It ain’t rocket science! The only debt anyone should have is the mortgage.
Divorce, School Fees, Bankruptcies, Over-Commuting, Two Gas-Guzzling Cars, & choosing holidays in expensive places are all optional extras - if anyone cares to LET them be!
If you read the OPs post you will see that the tipper work will be her first HGV job, she’s trying to get a start on LGV driving and personally I see nothing wrong with that.
Rather than being berated for having two part-time jobs I think she should be applauded for having a go 
nick2008:
I am a little disappointed to read how many people give advice to break the law.
And people wonder why the jobs FUBAR
The jobs fubar because too many people are ■■■■■■■ about creating miles of paper trails rather than just getting on with what needs to be done…
Saaamon:
shep532:
I am a little disappointed to read how many people give advice to break the law.Once you drive a vehicle in scope of the EU rules within a fixed week you are legally obliged to record all periods of work or POA including work for other employers (Page 39 of the GV262-03). You have legal obligations to carry a record of all other work carried out prior to driving that vehicle in that week. There are other obligations regarding weekly rest etc but you say you know the EU rules so will know that.
This means, amongst your 28 days of records you are legally required to carry, you would need either an analogue chart with your other work activities written on (just start and finish times are sufficient), or a digital print out with the same, or you would need to manually enter the domestic work into the digi tacho when logging in. This way there would be no gaps in your records.
If pulled by VOSA in the 18t, one of the things they look for are gaps in the records. They will generally ask about the gaps, especially where they don’t seem to fit a normal working pattern i.e. days missing mid-week. You could answer those questions with false staements as suggested - if these are uncovered the penalties will be quite severe compared to a little fixed penalty. Falsification of records■■?
VOSA aren’t daft (although some may disagree). They know people generally don’t survive financially off a few days driving and will suspect you do work elsewhere even if it isn’t transport related. If they are doing their job properly they will persue this matter to satisfy their curiosity. of course you may get a VOSA officer who doesn’t bother.
If on the other hand you let on that yesterday you were working at a supermarket and not driving the 18t (whether shelf stacking or 3.5t van driving) the result will almost certainly be a delayed prohibition (possibly an immediate) to take 9 or 11 hours rest. I have seen this happen numerous times. No records of other work - prohibition issued to make sure you get sufficient rest. They could also dole out a graduated fixed penalty to you.
WHoever you are working for in the 18t will not by any means appreciate a prohibition of any kind being issued. You won’t be able to hide it as it will be posted to them. The new OCRS scoring system will mean this would count heavily against them.
Of course VOSA may not just leave it at that either and may persue other matters, visit the 18t company and investigate further. I suppose that may depend on their current OCRS rating.
I know the MD of a haulage company that was pulled on a Saturday morning driving an artic. A delayed prohibition was issued because he did not have records of work done in that week. He now completes an analogue chart for every working day. Name, date, start and finish times. If he goes out in a wagon he takes them with him. You do read of drivers having diaries or time sheets to show this other work - but the rules state the only official records are analogue charts, digi print out or entered onto the driver card. An official domestic hours log book may be used if it was legally required for the domestic activities - your 3.5t van driving doesn’t require it, therefore it doesn’t count.
It is really quite simple. On the days you work domestic - fill out an analogue chart with name, date start and finish times (or use the back of a digi roll). Carry it just like a tacho when in the 18t. Hand it in to your 18t employer as you normally would. If the 18t is going to be digital - beginning of each shift do a manual entry for the day/s you worked driving the 3.5t during that fixed week. You might want to enter your breaks as well. This isn’t legally required for the domestic duties but - it’ll help keep the working time down for the WTD(RTD) and your 18t employer may appreciate this.
Of course your 18t employer may not know about your other activities but you should really tell him to cover both your backs.
If you might carry out mixed domestic and EU in the same day/shift remember the driving of the 3.5t counts as work for the EU rules BUT, on a day where mixed domestic and EU activities take place the Domestic limits of 10 hours driving and 11 hours duty MUST still be obeyed as well as the EU rules (Page 29 GV262-03) … although how the authorities would enforce this I don’t know (or even if they would).
A lot of people are going to disagree with my post and stick with ‘what VOSA doesn’t see VOSA doesn’t know about’. All I’ll add is that should something unfortunate happen whilst driving the 18t and it comes out you were working elsewhere, your 18t employer didn’t know or if he did and didn’t ask for records etc etc etc it can be the difference between hassle and serious hassle. Yeah I’m all doom and gloom me
Couldnt be arsed to read all that [zb].
LOL 
All i done before i started driving full time was just keep photo copys of my timesheets for that month in the cab on the days i was driving! (I would stand in for the regular guy before he retired)
It was alot more comprehensive form of record keeping than scribbling on the back of an analogue chart. VOSA would also be able to see my rest days, daily rest and weekly rest. Cant see anything wrong with that personally. I also think that making a manual entry on digi for the days of not driving is way over the top and not worth the time!
tachograph:
Winseer:
Personally, I reckon if you commute to two seperate driving jobs, then you should count your commuting time as part of your working hours, entered as “other work” on your tacho.Well you’re entitled to your opinion, but thankfully that doesn’t make it law so it can be safely and legally ignored
Winseer:
We’re not victorian chimney sweeps in this day and age. No one should have to do two jobs, even two part time ones.
“Having” to do two jobs means you are either living beyond your means or you are riddled with debts.
Cut the fat off the overspent lifestyle and/or default the debts. It ain’t rocket science! The only debt anyone should have is the mortgage.
Divorce, School Fees, Bankruptcies, Over-Commuting, Two Gas-Guzzling Cars, & choosing holidays in expensive places are all optional extras - if anyone cares to LET them be!If you read the OPs post you will see that the tipper work will be her first HGV job, she’s trying to get a start on LGV driving and personally I see nothing wrong with that.
Rather than being berated for having two part-time jobs I think she should be applauded for having a go
Yeah but this is trucknet, Ken
Winseer:
Personally, I reckon if you commute to two seperate driving jobs, then you should count your commuting time as part of your working hours, entered as “other work” on your tacho.Oh, what’s that? - Can’t do an 84 hour week anymore whilst doing that?
What a shame…We’re not victorian chimney sweeps in this day and age. No one should have to do two jobs, even two part time ones.
“Having” to do two jobs means you are either living beyond your means or you are riddled with debts.
Cut the fat off the overspent lifestyle and/or default the debts. It ain’t rocket science! The only debt anyone should have is the mortgage.
Divorce, School Fees, Bankruptcies, Over-Commuting, Two Gas-Guzzling Cars, & choosing holidays in expensive places are all optional extras - if anyone cares to LET them be!
I saved up for my class 2 then borrowed some money to pay for my class 1 to help me progress. I knew i could get a start on artics but didnt have enough time to save up… Are you telling me i done the wrong thing?
i would keep the wtd in mind ,but 3.5t driving is what they call out of scope so dont worry,i keep a pocket diary to tie up gaps in cards and have never had a problem.if your really bothered tachodisc do a book called driving without a card register.
If the OP wishes to go with the ‘not keeping records’ advise then I would suggest she keeps quiet at the supermarket job about her additional work activities.
As recently posted I was reported to VOSA by a jealous work ‘colleague’ which resulted in a my being investigated, by VOSA, to make sure I was complying with regulation (including WTD).
When driving a lorry I carry with me my digi card, the required tacho charts, my ‘other job’ timeheets (going back 28 days). The VOSA examiner suggested I also keep, and carry, a diary with ALL my worked hours recorded in it. The examiner also requested to see copies of all the timesheets I had submitted to the agencies I had driven for since July…this was to prove I had informed the agencies of all the other work I had done including time spent at DCPC training and to check it tied in with what the digicard said!!!
Oh…by the way…my other job involves occasional driving of nothing bigger than a 4x4.
The examiner also had the option to go into everything I had produced in order to calculate whether I had complied with the WTD 48hr week rule since my 1st lorry driving job in July, but didn’t!
luckily, because I had kept these records, my interview was fine with no issues…it was bloody scary though to see exactly what I was doing, on digi several months ago, on the examiners laptop!
IMHO Sheps advise is spot on.
Tazbug
Tazbug:
IMHO Sheps advise is spot on.
Tazbug
I’ll be printing and framing this particular post … cos I bet it never happens again (me being right)
What I don’t understand here is the need to earn more than 48 hours @ £6.25ph if that’s all you can get?
If you get less than 11 hours off a day too often, and waste too many of those precious hours off-duty commuting, then sooner or later you’re going to be running home one early saturday morning, and run into a motorway bridge, or up the arse of an artic whilst commuting home in your own car on the motorway.
These “early saturday morning” deaths don’t get recorded into the statistics as anything other than “a plg road accident”, and once you’re dead, it’s too late to warn anyone else of the perils of doubleshift-driving with all the concern about “Keeping it below the VOSA radar” rather than “Is this safe to myself and others?” which should be a professional drivers PRIME concern at all times. 
…
alte hase:
shep532:
Tazbug:
IMHO Sheps advise is spot on.
TazbugI’ll be printing and framing this particular post … cos I bet it never happens again (me being right)
I decided instead of reading Sheps advice to read the Gettysburg Address, a much ‘lighter’ subject matter, and a deal less time to read, the last line of it must really vex our masters in brussels, whose despotic outpouring some pharisaically crave to follow,
and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth."
Well that didn’t last long did it?,Shep with your fortune made off the backs of your fellow citizens, will you be emigrating to the land of the free, you might find the land of the free quite frightening, those trucks out there dont even have any tacho’s in them, just thought I’d warn you.
Unfortunately the Gettysburg Address would not have answered the OPs question about remaining legal within the current rules and regulations. However my ramblings would help. it was also unfortunate that most of the advice given to the OP was wrong and could have resulted in the OP losing their job. Wasn’t it better that the correct advice was given?
Is there anyone on here that doesn’t make their ‘fortune’ off the backs of their fellow citizens? Doesn’t everybody hold out their hand to someone on Payday? Even if it’s just the benefits office
As for the land of the free … I’ll take a handfull of tacho’s with me and convince them it’s the way forward.
…
I think the current tacho rules stink, but I’d keep legal as the hassle that could occur if you don’t is likely to be severe.
VOSA don’t need much excuse to be a PITA
Christ almighty if you get a pull off vosa just keep your cake hole shut about the supermarket gig. Unless your wearing your supermarket uniform in the tipper how will they know.
No wonder the haulage industry and country in general is screwed with the cant do attitude prevalent in these forums.
kr79:
Christ almighty if you get a pull off vosa just keep your cake hole shut about the supermarket gig. Unless your wearing your supermarket uniform in the tipper how will they know.
If stopped by VOSA and the only records are for 1 or 2 days and only on weekends for example do you think they will accept that the driver does nowt for the rest of the week ?
It’s up to them to prove otherwise. I’ve had it in the past only done casual for people. Especially in the current economic climate I bet there’s plenty who only do a few days here and there.