mikeaber:
is this ok 2x15 hours working + 4x13 hours working = 82 hours working time in a week
Come on drive, you can fit another 8 hours in there with 6x15s with split daily rests 
on another note, why would you want to do 82 hours 
JS8576:
I forgot all about the daily rest requirements due to the confusion over the POA. But like you said in my example i could have worked until 10pm. The question is would the employer have expected me to do this?I think what iām starting to realise (unless i get a very regular job with known hours in advance) is that most drivers who have to get to grips with this are probably being paid a average salary based on the hours they are expected to work over the reference period rather than being paid in the way someone in a warehouse would be paid from working regular shift of 7am to 5pm.
iām sure it will sink in at some point.
I know some companies pay a salary for a fixed hours contract, but all the haulage jobs Iāve done have been hours and overtime. The pay starts when you start you shift and finishes when youāve finished your shift, This hourly pay will include any POAās and breaks (although some companies take off an hour for dinner, so you make sure you have an hour for dinner) personally I wouldnāt work for any company that didnāt pay you for POAās.
As for hours, if itās general haulage then youāre likely to have varied start times, from very early to not so early, and often full shifts, if you do trunking type work you more likely to have more regular hours and start times.
Thanks for responses. Getting the hang of it i think.
So to sum up:
I start work at 6am. Should the first thing i take note of is i must cease all work no later than 9pm (assuming i can use a reduced daily rest). Then during those 15 hours i can do as much or little driving as i want within the legal limits (making sure to take any breaks where required), make sure i take any WTD breaks, do as much or as little OW as required, and take whatever POA is necessary.
Just as long as i stop no later than 9pm that is fine. Then i can disregard POA/breaks when i caluclate the weekly limit of 60 hours and the average 48 hours over the reference period.
I can do this 3 times per week. The other 3 times with a full daily rest i would have 13 hours working time.
Think iāve got the gist of it now.
BUT, does taking a daily rest reset the 24 hours?
i.e start work 6am, finish at 3pm take 11 hours daily rest. Can i now start work again at 2am and the next 24 hours starts from this time?
ALSO, if i started work at midnight worked until 9am, took 11 hours daily rest. If i now did 2 hours driving at 10pm does this (as above) start a new 24 hour shift or do those 2 hours belong to the same day?
If the daily rest does reset the 24 hours then i understand that.
I also wonder (assuming nobody is keeping track of your hours for you in the office) what sort of data do i need to keep on top of.
- the number of hours driven per day and per week (in order to satisfy the 56 hours weekly and 90 hour fortnight limit)
- number of hours worked during shift (driving + OW to make sure i donāt exceed 60 or 48 hour average)
- daily rest to make sure i use at least the minimum and keep track on whether i have any reductions possible
- weekly rest to make sure i compensate any reduction (also just noticed that you have to have at least one normal weekly rest in every fortnight)
Have i missed anything?
Do most drivers use a notebook to keep track of all this?
JS8576:
Thanks for responses. Getting the hang of it i think.So to sum up:
I start work at 6am. Should the first thing i take note of is i must cease all work no later than 9pm (assuming i can use a reduced daily rest). Then during those 15 hours i can do as much or little driving as i want (making sure to take any breaks where required), make sure i take any WTD breaks, do as much or as little OW as required, and take whatever POA is necessary.
You can do 9 hours driving between daily rest periods, this can be increased to 10 hours driving twice a week.
JS8576:
Just as long as i stop no later than 9pm that is fine. Then i can disregard POA/breaks when i caluclate the weekly limit of 60 hours and the average 48 hours over the reference period.I can do this 3 times per week. The other 3 times with a full daily rest i would have 13 hours working time.
Think iāve got the gist of it now.
You can have three reduced daily rest periods between two weekly rest periods, not three times a week.
That may seem pedantic but is an important point because if you had a reduced weekly rest period mid-week you could have six reduced daily rest periods in a week.
JS8576:
BUT, does taking a daily rest reset the 24 hours?
i.e start work 6am, finish at 3pm take 11 hours daily rest. Can i now start work again at 2pm and the next 24 hours starts from this time?
A new 24 hour period starts at the end of a daily or weekly rest period, so yes once youāve had the required daily rest a new 24 hour period begins when you restart work.
JS8576:
ALSO, if i started work at midnight worked until 9am, took 11 hours daily rest. If i now did 2 hours driving at 10pm does this (as above) start a new 24 hour shift or do those 2 hours belong to the same day?If the daily rest does reset the 24 hours then i understand that.
You understand that then.
As above, a new 24 hour period starts when you start work after a daily/weekly rest period.
JS8576:
I also wonder (assuming nobody is keeping track of your hours for you in the office) what sort of data do i need to keep on top of.
- the number of hours driven per day and per week (in order to satisfy the 56 hours weekly and 90 hour fortnight limit)
- number of hours worked during shift (driving + OW to make sure i donāt exceed 60 or 48 hour average)
- daily rest to make sure i use at least the minimum and keep track on whether i have any reductions possible
- weekly rest to make sure i compensate any reduction (also just noticed that you have to have at least one normal weekly rest in every fortnight)
Have i missed anything?
That seems about right, but how you keep track of your hours will to some extent depend on your job, if you work regular hours doing the same run every day itās easier to remember your hours than if youāre tramping and working diferent hours every day.
JS8576:
Do most drivers use a notebook to keep track of all this?
I know a lot of drivers do, some donāt need to.
JS8576 - do you have an Android or iPhone? If so check out the Trucker Timer app. Even thought itās a pain to remember to use at first, and if you use the GPS mode to see if you are moving or not (I donāt) it eats battery, if you use it for a couple of weeks you will quickly get the hang of the thought processes you need to get into.
Assuming you can handle weekly rest in your head, then the minimum survival is keeping track of how many reduced rests you have available and how many 10 hour drives you have available at any time, and noting down the start time of your shift. As you say above you can then work out the max finish time according to what you have available. The tacho (if digital) will tell you how many hours you have driven that shift and since last break. (the complication is that if you use POA it can reset ādriving time since last breakā in which case paper notes are handy to fall back on)
Donāt fret about it though - all new drivers make mistakes in the first few weeks and then get the hang of it.
So if someone decided to take a couple of days off totaling 45 hours (or maybe even sick) or agency had no work would this automatically reset the week as it would be construed as a weekly rest then you have to start afresh with new week even if this would be mid-week which would mess you up a bit?
If you had a few hours of reduced rest to compensate for who would know if (with the example above) you are taking a 45 hour weekly rest or taking a daily rest + compensation for previous reduced rest. Can the driver choose and make a note on paper roll.
Only have a bog standard phone. Might see what there is in the way of software if i can get it for free. Failing that i would probably make do with notebook.
Seem to have got to grips with most it.
Thanks for the info.
JS8576:
So if someone decided to take a couple of days off totaling 45 hours (or maybe even sick) or agency had no work would this automatically reset the week as it would be construed as a weekly rest then you have to start afresh with new week even if this would be mid-week which would mess you up a bit?If you had a few hours of reduced rest to compensate for who would know if (with the example above) you are taking a 45 hour weekly rest or taking a daily rest + compensation for previous reduced rest. Can the driver choose and make a note on paper roll.
Only have a bog standard phone. Might see what there is in the way of software if i can get it for free. Failing that i would probably make do with notebook.
Seem to have got to grips with most it.
Thanks for the info.
If you are not on shift then its rest - being paid or on sick has no bearing on that
If on sick/holls for 2 days 945+ hours) then its a regular weekly rest
A āweekā is 00:00 Monday to 24:00 Sunday, or midnight Sunday to midnight Sunday if you prefer, thereās no question of resetting it as it never changes.
The time between weekly rest periods is sometimes referred to as the āworking weekā which starts when you resume work after a weekly rest period and ends when you start a new weekly rest period.
Any-time you have a rest period of 45 consecutive hours or more itās a regular weekly rest period even if itās midweek.
Any-time you have a rest period of 24 consecutive hours or more but less than 45 hours itās a reduced weekly rest period regardless of which day/days it falls on.
A rest period of nine hours or more can be used to pay back compensation for a reduced weekly rest period, if the rest period is 24 hours or more it can be used either as a reduced or regular weekly rest period or as compensation for a previously taken reduced weekly rest period.
Obviously if you use a rest period as compensation for a previously taken reduced weekly rest period the same hours of rest cannot be used as a weekly rest period, so you would still need to have the appropriate weekly rest periods at some point.
A working week starts at the end of a weekly rest.
A weekly rest can be taken any time (as long as not more than 6 x 24 hour periods commencing the end of the last weekly rest)
JS8576:
So if someone decided to take a couple of days off totaling 45 hours (or maybe even sick) or agency had no work would this automatically reset the week as it would be construed as a weekly rest then you have to start afresh with new week even if this would be mid-week which would mess you up a bit?
In this situation (which is fine) then you have reset the clock completely, start again with full complement of reduced daily rests and 10 hour drives available again.
JS8576:
If you had a few hours of reduced rest to compensate for who would know if (with the example above) you are taking a 45 hour weekly rest or taking a daily rest + compensation for previous reduced rest. Can the driver choose and make a note on paper roll.
Wow - you like the complex onesā¦stretching me here, butā¦
The question implies that you have time to repay for a previous reduced weekly and this matters. Once you reach 45 hours, you have taken a full weekly rest which you would want anyway since you canāt do two consecutive reduced weekly rests. You then have to also do the compensation before the end of the 3rd week.
I am in a naughty mood today ā¦
A weekly rest in week 1 was reduced of 24 hrs leaving 21 to pay back before the end of week 4
but then the next few weekly rests went like this
wk 2 = 45 off
wk 3 = 45 off
wk 4 = 45 off
wk 5 = 45 off
wk 6 = 45 off
wk 7 = 66 off
Has the 21 hours from week 1 been paid back on time ?
Is there any payback still owing ?
You are indeed in a naughty mood!
Week 4 - 45hours
but 21 to repay that MUST come off, Leaving 24 as remaining valid weekly rest.
So Week 4 is effectively a reduced rest again following the repayment. 24 taken, 21 owing. (45-24)
Week 7 - 66 hours
21 to repay
Leaving 45
So all square again, right?
th2013:
So all square again, right?
Right on
Very good explanations again tachograph! Basically you must make sure you take your daily and weekly rests that have been explained to you. You can not drive more then 9 hours a day, but can be extended 3 times a week to ten. The maximum shift you can work length wise is 15 hours including any POA or breaks taken. According to the WTD your average working week must be 48 hours ( from what I have heard companies are not bothered by this) but to keep your hours down drivers use POA/breaks a lot to do this. Do not work more then 60 hours in a week and donāt drive more then 90 hours in a fortnight, also take your required breaks to keep in the rules with WTD and drivers hours rules. Please let me know if I have got any of this wrong 
ash 001:
You can not drive more then 9 hours a day, but can be extended 3 times a week to ten.
You can extend the daily driving time to 10 hours twice a week not three times 
ash 001:
The maximum shift you can work length wise is 15 hours including any POA or breaks taken.
That correct but you can only have three reduced daily rest periods (15 hour shifts) three times between weekly rest periods, other shifts between the two weekly rest periods are restricted to 13 hours unless you have a split daily rest period.
ash 001:
According to the WTD your average working week must be 48 hours ( from what I have heard companies are not bothered by this) but to keep your hours down drivers use POA/breaks a lot to do this. Do not work more then 60 hours in a week and donāt drive more then 90 hours in a fortnight, also take your required breaks to keep in the rules with WTD and drivers hours rules.
Thatās correct but donāt forget youāre restricted to 56 hours driving time per week as well as 90 hours per fortnight.
I was close tacho what do I score ? 9 out of 10? lol
ash 001:
I was close tacho
Better than that ā¦ Iād say 9Ā¼ out of 10
th2013:
A working week starts at the end of a weekly rest.
A weekly rest can be taken any time (as long as not more than 6 x 24 hour periods commencing the end of the last weekly rest)JS8576:
So if someone decided to take a couple of days off totaling 45 hours (or maybe even sick) or agency had no work would this automatically reset the week as it would be construed as a weekly rest then you have to start afresh with new week even if this would be mid-week which would mess you up a bit?
In this situation (which is fine) then you have reset the clock completely, start again with full complement of reduced daily rests and 10 hour drives available again.
JS8576:
A midweek weekly rest doesnāt reset your 10 hour drives, itās 2 per fixed week and thatās it.Edit sorry for cocking up quotes.
1968kg:
A midweek weekly rest doesnāt reset your 10 hour drives, itās 2 per fixed week and thatās it.
My bad, I did know that! but for some reason my fingers can easily type [zb] when Iām tiredā¦! Thanks for pointing out.
tachograph:
ash 001:
I was close tachoBetter than that
Sweet I feel I am finally getting my head around these hours, also if anyone is struggling I have a book called LGV drivers hours and Tachograph law by David Lowe. This is very handy to use as a reference and is small to carry around in your bag, I would recommend to anyone that is unsure of hours ect.