does anyone know weather vosa are starting to fine drivers for the 6 hour rule and the 48 working week
i don’t think the 6hr rule and the48hr rule has anything to do with vosa. i may be wrong.
browncow2:
i don’t think the 6hr rule and the48hr rule has anything to do with vosa. i may be wrong.
VOSA have been given the remit for overseeing it but there is nothing in the VOSA sanctions list for any RTD breaches
VOSA did say they could oversee it if there numbers were increased by a factor of three I think it was but the DfT (Govt) do not want to pay for that
The Govt HAS complied with the directive enough so that it does not get an EU fine
I do hope not. 48hour rule, is that for office workers?
Does anyone remember the little lad and the wolf?
Rog is that little lad, and he keeps repeating the same ■■■■■■■■ on every post, but one day there will be a prosecution after the softly softly approach wears off.
Son and Son Haulage have been prosecuted for exceeding the RTD.
Oh no, they haven’t said the pantomime horse. Rog told me.
It will happen and it will come with such a shock when it does, there will be tears
Wheel Nut:
Does anyone remember the little lad and the wolf?Rog is that little lad, and he keeps repeating the same ■■■■■■■■ on every post, but one day there will be a prosecution after the softly softly approach wears off.
Son and Son Haulage have been prosecuted for exceeding the RTD.
Oh no, they haven’t said the pantomime horse. Rog told me.
It will happen and it will come with such a shock when it does, there will be tears
It may happen in the future - I do not have a crystal ball
Judging on the last 6 years is it now? - then its very very unlikely
Firstly, VOSA would need some sanctions for breaches in their sanctions list so that would be a good indicator that they are likely to take the RTD seriously
ROG:
Wheel Nut:
Does anyone remember the little lad and the wolf?Rog is that little lad, and he keeps repeating the same ■■■■■■■■ on every post, but one day there will be a prosecution after the softly softly approach wears off.
Son and Son Haulage have been prosecuted for exceeding the RTD.
Oh no, they haven’t said the pantomime horse. Rog told me.
It will happen and it will come with such a shock when it does, there will be tears
It may happen in the future - I do not have a crystal ball
Judging on the last 6 years is it now? - then its very very unlikely
Firstly, VOSA would need some sanctions for breaches in their sanctions list so that would be a good indicator that they are likely to take the RTD seriously
ROG,
IMHO, you’re possibly playing a dangerous game by dishing out ‘advice’ like this.
For all any of us know, a WTD breach might/could be dealt with by way of a summons, then it would be a court who sets the penalty.
I don’t know the answer to this, and I’m simply suggesting that you don’t know it either.
The danger comes from you second guessing what an enforcement authority will or won’t do or how a particular officer might react in a certain situation. Take my warning ROG, because guessing at this is a fool’s game, since there might be a prosecution of somebody who took your advice as gospel at some point.
Wheel Nut:
It will happen and it will come with such a shock when it does, there will be tears
Followed by much wailing and gnashing of teeth. 
thought i read om CM site the other day a company got done for non compilance of wtd, but it was with a load of other offences so i suspect that vosa where on a book throwing exercise 
VOSA could be holding fire till after the DQC’s are issued! Will the more qualified get a severe bashing for non compliance! Probably! More revenue to be collected innit! 
Is it not the companies responsibility to keep track of the average over the reference periods though? 
Last year we had VOSA do a random inspection at our company. The issue of the WTD was brought up by our managers.
They asked VOSA various questions on how we should be recording it etc.
we used to fill out sheets every day listing driving, POA, breaks etc.
VOSA couldnt give us a definetive answer.
After various emails over the following weeks and another back up visit, VOSA couldnt give us an answer and said they were very unlikely to enforce it anyway.
Since that we`ve ran by Tacho rules only and have made no effort to comply with the WTD.
R.D:
Last year we had VOSA do a random inspection at our company. The issue of the WTD was brought up by our managers.
They asked VOSA various questions on how we should be recording it etc.
we used to fill out sheets every day listing driving, POA, breaks etc.
VOSA couldnt give us a definetive answer.
After various emails over the following weeks and another back up visit, VOSA couldnt give us an answer and said they were very unlikely to enforce it anyway.
Since that we`ve ran by Tacho rules only and have made no effort to comply with the WTD.
we do the same at our firm as well, to be honest i tramp all week and work max hours, very rearly us poa’s at when i last checked my average was just running over 50 hrs but that was on a six day week, on a five i am nearly on the 48 each week so to be honest i am not worried about it
R.D:
Last year we had VOSA do a random inspection at our company. The issue of the WTD was brought up by our managers.
They asked VOSA various questions on how we should be recording it etc.
we used to fill out sheets every day listing driving, POA, breaks etc.
VOSA couldnt give us a definetive answer.
After various emails over the following weeks and another back up visit, VOSA couldnt give us an answer and said they were very unlikely to enforce it anyway.
Since that we`ve ran by Tacho rules only and have made no effort to comply with the WTD.
The reason VOSA couldn’t give a definitive answer as to how working time records should be kept is probably because there is no definitive answer.
Your company could use a book or time sheets to keep track their employees working time, or they could use the records for the drivers hours and tachograph regulations such as charts or card downloads.
Tachograph charts normally have to be kept for 12 months but where they are used for tracking the working time regulations they should be kept for 2 years.
If the original plan for the RTD had been taken up then it would have been easy to enforce
The original plan was for a maximum of 48 hours in a fixed week which was all the time from clocking in to clocking off
The UK Govt used their veto to scrap the original idea
At least, thats the way I understand how it went … perpared to be corrected though
The current way the RTD is set up means drivers can still be on-shift for over 70 hours a week and its the rest periods for the tacho regs which actually determine what hours can and cannot be done from clocking in to clocking out - that is probably why the authorities are not bothered about it
FFS what a load of old ■■■■■■■■!
Either you personally (not the guy down the pub’s uncle’s ex-girlfriends sister-in-law second time removed’s) have experienced being busted by vosa over this, that, or the other - or you have not.
The best posts on here are those with real information experienced firsthand - not “I heard in an RDC waiting room” type guff that is more dangerous than ‘no information at all’ - because it might lull some into a false sense of security over “what laws you can safely break, 'cos VOSA don’t give a toss” or whatever.
Assume you’ll get busted to the letter for breaching anything written down in the regs, and they’ll never be any nasty surprises.
If that means NO 4:31hrs driving without a break, NO continuous >48 hour weeks, and shifts longer than 13 hours no more than 3 times a week - then so be it. Sure, there’s a load of 84 hour week enthusiasts that’ll call me wrong and accuse me of talking ■■■■■■■■ myself, but my marriage is rock-solid, I’m not in the poor house, I’ve got quality time at home with my family, and I get what I want in T&C’s by holding out for it - 'cos I’m not desperate enough to break the law as I see it to please some knob who thinks their sole purpose in life is to “get around the regs one way or another”. 
Whilst there do not appear to have been any prosecutions under the RT(WT)R to date, I wouldn’t be tempted to use that as a defence.
Whilst the Offences are not currently listed within the Fixed Penalty schedules it doesn’t mean that they cannot be added. The penalties are already in the Statutory Instrument for dealing with the matter in Court. So, should it be decided to enforce the legislation by prosecution it will be an appearance before the Magistrates for the driver and / or employer.
The main difficulty with dealing with anything other than ‘the break at 6 hours’ or ‘maximum working week exceeding 60 hours’ at the roadside is the length of time it would take to determine if an offence has been committed.
The reason that VOSA were non committal about the type of RT(WT)R record being kept is that the legislation doesn’t specify how the record will be kept. Many companies use a kind of ‘log book’ which shows daily and weekly totals of work, driving, POA and breaks. Others use analogue or digital Tacho records to produce an electronic record. Remember that the record needs to be kept for 2 years after the end of the reference period. In some cases that will mean keeping the record for up to 2 years and 6 months.
I don’t think anybody is condoning breaking the law but have simply stated what the reality is at the present in regards to enforcement of some laws
You can get the same infringement chucked at you over and over again as well. If you find yourself working for different firms, and on the 3rd of the month say, you do a “worked more than 6 hours straight” (WTD infringement) at bloggs haulage & co, then every other TM at every other company you work at will keep getting remnents of that same data for maybe months more, and guess what? The data is still present, so you get another infringement chucked at you according to yet another company policy.
Some firms don’t give a toss about third-party infringements, others make it their business, which might be a safer assumption after all. 
Hold on a sec!!! 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but some years ago Rog was put on pre-mod for spouting the exact same ill-informed bollox as he is doing in this thread. A certain site administrator informed us in a round about way that he would be remaining on pre-mod because despite many assurances from him that he would cease spouting bollox he was unable to do so. I would like to know what changed that resulted in his release and also, given the above, why is he not back on pre-mod already?
It’s the kind of thing that can land people in hot water and newbies to this site that don’t know any better are likely to take his posts as gospel given his post count. I think this needs nipping in the bud before it gets out of hand again. 
Rob K:
Hold on a sec!!!Correct me if I’m wrong, but some years ago Rog was put on pre-mod for spouting the exact same ill-informed bollox as he is doing in this thread. A certain site administrator informed us in a round about way that he would be remaining on pre-mod because despite many assurances from him that he would cease spouting bollox he was unable to do so. I would like to know what changed that resulted in his release and also, given the above, why is he not back on pre-mod already?
It’s the kind of thing that can land people in hot water and newbies to this site that don’t know any better are likely to take his posts as gospel given his post count. I think this needs nipping in the bud before it gets out of hand again.
Rob K, Please quote what I have said that is a lie
I’ll bet you cannot find anything because I was VERY CAREFUL not to do so
You should be able to find plenty which relates to the current reality of the situation 