I was just idley wondering how other people are getting on, as it seems most sites i visit these days won’t let me on the back of my truck.
For me its a pain in the arse, I used to just jump up and down off the back to sling or sheet things. A lot of sites complain my lorry dosen’t have handrails and some won’t even let me up ladders to sling things (which i think is more dangerous than just climbing up on the back)
My guvnor has got round it most times by pre slinging things i take out, and buying me a fall arrestor and harnes to hang off the Hi-ab. for when loading or climbing up on containers etc.
Went to a big cosmetics place in Southampton the other day, they have one of those wheel locking contraptions, once you reverse onto the bay the wheels are locked in place so you cant move, means you get to keep your keys so you can listen to the radio.
madguy:
Went to a big cosmetics place in Southampton the other day, they have one of those wheel locking contraptions, once you reverse onto the bay the wheels are locked in place so you cant move, means you get to keep your keys so you can listen to the radio.
Ok, so I’ve been to a few places where you drop your red line and put one of those Air Line locks on… But can’t you push the shunt button in and then you can move the trailer without hooking up the airlines? is that right (don’t use/not allowed to use shunt at our place so not used to using it)■■?
At the moment thankfully it is rare it crops up, I have no side rails and think that they would hinder my job more than assist. I have to have access to the load bed as plant is driven on, doors cannot be opened or closed if there is a garden fence down the side or the bigger stuff is too wide to fit between anything that we could fit if we wanted to.
As for containers, I detest the things so if someone has a problem with me climbing up my shonky ladder to the top and wandering about then they are more than welcome to keep their container and get someone else to move it for them. I am not prepared to double stack containers unless someone on site is prepared to go up top and hook them up. They want them stacked then they can organise it.
I am sure that before long some organisation that we work for is going to demand a stupid handrail system, I decided a while ago that maybe at that point I’d look for something else. I have suggested that we could use a fall arrest system and harness and clip to the crane which would probably get us around the issue of side rails, but as they seem quite happy for me to do containers without one I’ll not hold my breath.
If we decide to go down the Crossrail route I am sure that my life will become miserable with pointless red tape, trouble is I am sure that it will spread from Crossrail to something else etc etc. We have been going through the FORS stuff and there is tons of ■■■■■■■■ involved in that.
madguy:
Went to a big cosmetics place in Southampton the other day, they have one of those wheel locking contraptions, once you reverse onto the bay the wheels are locked in place so you cant move, means you get to keep your keys so you can listen to the radio.
Ok, so I’ve been to a few places where you drop your red line and put one of those Air Line locks on… But can’t you push the shunt button in and then you can move the trailer without hooking up the airlines? is that right (don’t use/not allowed to use shunt at our place so not used to using it)■■?
Yes you can but why would you want to?
By the way, the topic is “Working at height”, not on the ground.
its odd that during the day if I hookup to a generator on the back of my truck I need to be wearing my fall arrest gear, the ladders need to footed,and secured.yet come the middle of the night,the working at height regs vanish along elf n safety
Andydisco:
its odd that during the day if I hookup to a generator on the back of my truck I need to be wearing my fall arrest gear, the ladders need to footed,and secured.yet come the middle of the night,the working at height regs vanish along elf n safety
8wheels:
At the moment thankfully it is rare it crops up, I have no side rails and think that they would hinder my job more than assist. I have to have access to the load bed as plant is driven on, doors cannot be opened or closed if there is a garden fence down the side or the bigger stuff is too wide to fit between anything that we could fit if we wanted to.
As for containers, I detest the things so if someone has a problem with me climbing up my shonky ladder to the top and wandering about then they are more than welcome to keep their container and get someone else to move it for them. I am not prepared to double stack containers unless someone on site is prepared to go up top and hook them up. They want them stacked then they can organise it.
I am sure that before long some organisation that we work for is going to demand a stupid handrail system, I decided a while ago that maybe at that point I’d look for something else. I have suggested that we could use a fall arrest system and harness and clip to the crane which would probably get us around the issue of side rails, but as they seem quite happy for me to do containers without one I’ll not hold my breath.
If we decide to go down the Crossrail route I am sure that my life will become miserable with pointless red tape, trouble is I am sure that it will spread from Crossrail to something else etc etc. We have been going through the FORS stuff and there is tons of [zb] involved in that.
The cross rail stuff is mental, my boss looked at getting involved, but there is so little profit in the timber trade at the moment he would have sell a massive amount just to recoup his outlay on getting the truck and me upto standard, plus all those rubbish stickers on my lorry would make it look crap LOL.
The fall arrest and harness system is ok, but is a pain, I dropped a 3ton generator the other day at the olympic site in Hadleigh and i reckon it added over half an hour to the job.
The two main problems with using fall arrest if you have the line attached to the Hiab are,
1 - If you fall and are left hanging who operates the crane to bring you down ? Remember hanging on a harness for any length of time can cause suspension trauma which in some cases can be fatal.
2 - On a std 20’ container with the hiab positioned central you would need about 10’ or 11’ of line to reach each corner, as a std box is only 8’ 6’’ your going to hit the ground anyway ,even if the box is on the truck taking the height up to about 13’ some part of you is still going to hit the deck.
At my place 75% of my work is containers and I either sling one corner at a time or use bottom lifting lugs. If the customer specifies that a fall arrest harness is used then they can supply a slinger or we will, and charge them accordingly.
I wont even go onto the deck of the lorry with a harness on unless one of our other drivers/operators is there.
Thankfully we don’t have to deal with such tosh, abroad. Yesterdays delivery in Holland, the following H & S was observed… All staff in shorts, all staff in sandals, all having a ciggie(crane driver smoking a pipe), all survived and load craned off intact. Not a hiviz, no hard hats, no risk assessments, no worries.
Just a bunch of guys getting the job done.
alfa man:
The two main problems with using fall arrest if you have the line attached to the Hiab are,
1 - If you fall and are left hanging who operates the crane to bring you down ? Remember hanging on a harness for any length of time can cause suspension trauma which in some cases can be fatal.
2 - On a std 20’ container with the hiab positioned central you would need about 10’ or 11’ of line to reach each corner, as a std box is only 8’ 6’’ your going to hit the ground anyway ,even if the box is on the truck taking the height up to about 13’ some part of you is still going to hit the deck.
Yes those are some convincing arguments that I’d not really considered. I’ve only a manual crane so it’s not as if I’d be able to use a remote to get myself out of trouble. I’m perfectly happy with climbing on top of a container or wandering on the led bed with no guard rails. I’ve only ever fell off the bed a couple of times and both were due to tripping or stumbling and at least I had a clear route over the side, a stupid piece of chain would undoubtedly caused some injury. I once fell off after standing on a length of T32 rebar, it landed on top of me a it ■■■■■■ hurt. It was no-one else’s fault but mine, sometimes there are acceptable risks that have to be taken to undertake the job. I might write a disclaimer and hand it out.
8wheels:
At the moment thankfully it is rare it crops up, I have no side rails and think that they would hinder my job more than assist. I have to have access to the load bed as plant is driven on, doors cannot be opened or closed if there is a garden fence down the side or the bigger stuff is too wide to fit between anything that we could fit if we wanted to.
As for containers, I detest the things so if someone has a problem with me climbing up my shonky ladder to the top and wandering about then they are more than welcome to keep their container and get someone else to move it for them. I am not prepared to double stack containers unless someone on site is prepared to go up top and hook them up. They want them stacked then they can organise it.
I am sure that before long some organisation that we work for is going to demand a stupid handrail system, I decided a while ago that maybe at that point I’d look for something else. I have suggested that we could use a fall arrest system and harness and clip to the crane which would probably get us around the issue of side rails, but as they seem quite happy for me to do containers without one I’ll not hold my breath.
If we decide to go down the Crossrail route I am sure that my life will become miserable with pointless red tape, trouble is I am sure that it will spread from Crossrail to something else etc etc. We have been going through the FORS stuff and there is tons of [zb] involved in that.
The cross rail stuff is mental, my boss looked at getting involved, but there is so little profit in the timber trade at the moment he would have sell a massive amount just to recoup his outlay on getting the truck and me upto standard, plus all those rubbish stickers on my lorry would make it look crap LOL.
The fall arrest and harness system is ok, but is a pain, I dropped a 3ton generator the other day at the olympic site in Hadleigh and i reckon it added over half an hour to the job.
I think it was for Crossrail (certainly rail related work) I saw a truck in having sensors put down all sides that would stop the hiab if someone walked too close to them. Seemed to me like it could cause more accidents than it would prevent.
Hippo:
All Cross rail vehicles have to have a ‘Side Impact dection system’ if thats wha you mean ?
Mirrors don’t seem to be enough anymore
It was in a dealers and the fitter told me they were for the hiab when I asked what the sensors were for. I assumed he knew what he was fitting but googling crossrail looks like they’re cyclist related which seems more plausible.
They basically looked like car reverse parking sensors all down the sides of the wagon. Guess they’re soon coming to all new trucks as mandatory fitting before too long. I reckon there shouldn’t just be an audible warning inside the cab there should be one outside that plays ‘cycling up the inside of a lorry at a junction, have you got a deathwish you treehugging moron!’
alfa man:
The two main problems with using fall arrest if you have the line attached to the Hiab are,
1 - If you fall and are left hanging who operates the crane to bring you down ? Remember hanging on a harness for any length of time can cause suspension trauma which in some cases can be fatal.
Wow! Someone who actually KNOWS about suspension trauma!!! When I worked on cherrypickers I was repeatedly told by management it was a myth and I should ignore that information. I’ve got a HSE doc here somewhere about it but I’ve got the pre-published version from about 7 years ago
Thankfully we don’t have to deal with such tosh, abroad. Yesterdays delivery in Holland, the following H & S was observed… All staff in shorts, all staff in sandals, all having a ciggie(crane driver smoking a pipe), all survived and load craned off intact. Not a hiviz, no hard hats, no risk assessments, no worries.
Just a bunch of guys getting the job done.
then of corsh we have to have de coffee
…i just love tipping/loading in Euroland…but not der farterland
alfa man:
The two main problems with using fall arrest if you have the line attached to the Hiab are,
1 - If you fall and are left hanging who operates the crane to bring you down ? Remember hanging on a harness for any length of time can cause suspension trauma which in some cases can be fatal.
Wow! Someone who actually KNOWS about suspension trauma!!! When I worked on cherrypickers I was repeatedly told by management it was a myth and I should ignore that information. I’ve got a HSE doc here somewhere about it but I’ve got the pre-published version from about 7 years ago
Suspension trauma is a piece of ■■■■ to get over, so there isn’t really a need to worry about it… We have Trauma Straps fixed to the side of our harnesses ( they can be removed but CANNOT fall or get ripped off ) so if you should slip and end up hanging all you do is unzip the small pouches and out fall the straps. They have a simple clip which holds them together, clip together and literally step into it. All the potential for trauma is gone and you can - cos I’ve done it - stand there quite happily and have a smoke,verbally abuse the management and scratch your arse with no danger. It also eliminates the ‘panic’ factor that kicks in for everyone else when ‘someone has fallen!!’ It gives them a LOT more time to sort out a rescue mission!
I’m not going to put the company name up on here but if anyone needs to know, pm me… 25 quid a pair IIRC so cheap as chips
Very well known harness manufacturer though
Not sure how you guys with the cranes would be able to deal with the rescue situation if you’re alone in the middle of the night though but at least the suspension trauma would be eliminated…
alfa man:
On a std 20’ container with the hiab positioned central you would need about 10’ or 11’ of line to reach each corner, as a std box is only 8’ 6’’ your going to hit the ground anyway ,even if the box is on the truck taking the height up to about 13’ some part of you is still going to hit the deck.
A retractable lanyard would surely do away with most of that problem, wouldn’t it?
Although I do appreciate that if you were unfortunate enough to fall off when you’re right on the corner, the pendulum effect means that you will hit the deck but would the retractable lanyard remove the shock of a straight fall?
I guess it depends on how confident you are. Everything works until the first time it fails and then someone gets hurt… In these idiotic H&S times, they would sooner see you were trying, even if it wasn’t ideal in their eyes, than not trying at all. We’ve had it - if you don’t try, they will bollock you into the middle of next week (or worse…). If you do try but its not ideal in their eyes, they will help and advise and, generally, be reasonable…
The simple answer is that all containers etc should be bottom lift.I do containers with a hiab every day. You meet every level of H&S on different sites, from the 18 year old lad in a shorts and no PPE climbing up the side of the cabin and proceeding to do a Tarzan noise on the top, through a footed ladder and inertia reel/harness site, to a couple of the big companies who wont even countenance the use of a ladder under any circumstances. All I want is consistency and to be allowed to do my job. I am trained ,qualified and experienced at what I do like the majority of Hiab drivers. I’m 55 years old and have no intention of putting myself or anyone else in danger…I’m a grown up, please treat me as one.
oldhippyandy:
The simple answer is that all containers etc should be bottom lift.
This is correct and what any risk assesment would find. I can’t think of many situations where top lifting is a neccesity.
oldhippyandy:
I do containers with a hiab every day. You meet every level of H&S on different sites, from the 18 year old lad in a shorts and no PPE climbing up the side of the cabin and proceeding to do a Tarzan noise on the top, through a footed ladder and inertia reel/harness site, to a couple of the big companies who wont even countenance the use of a ladder under any circumstances. All I want is consistency and to be allowed to do my job. I am trained ,qualified and experienced at what I do like the majority of Hiab drivers. I’m 55 years old and have no intention of putting myself or anyone else in danger…I’m a grown up, please treat me as one.
The problem here Andy is that the responsability starts with the person commisioning the work, they have their own ideas of what they have to do. They will not be as experienced as you in this and this is where the conflict of ideas occurs.
and some won’t even let me up ladders to sling things (which i think is more dangerous than just climbing up on the back)
Your not wrong
