Tipping drums of chemicals handball?
Many years ago at Midlands Storage of West Hallam we had a Holt’s anti-freeze contract delivering to town centre shops with 40 foot trailers.
That included 45 gallon drums of the stuff!
Method?; each shop had a truck tyre. Put it in the road next to trailer and roll the drum off the side. Used to bounce off the tyre and then two blokes from the shop grabbed it before it shot off down the road collecting shoppers!
H & S or what?
Salut, David.
At work we have H and S rules on lifting. 25kg for men and 16kg for the ladies. a two man team is allowed to lift 60kg, no more. but Im off with a glass back at moment 
We just had a manual handling course the other week - one of the first things the instructor says “the old rules are out, there is now no set weight limit for lifting - it’s up to the individual”…right, another con to allow your boss to try to bully you into doing things you shouldn’t - especially when the creeps don’t cover sick pay 
Jules
Wheel Nut:
At work we have H and S rules on lifting. 25kg for men and 16kg for the ladies. a two man team is allowed to lift 60kg, no more. but Im off with a glass back at moment
Is that allowed? surely that differentiating is against european discrimination laws?.
Every woman can do what a man can do, can`t they?.
jammymutt:
Is that allowed? surely that differentiating is against european discrimination laws?.Every woman can do what a man can do, can`t they?.
Quite right too, Jammy…will ask gaffer to send me on “Writing Name in Snow” Training ASAP!!! 
Actually, whilst we’re (vaguely) on that subject…here’s a question for the girls…
How many of you work for firms which actually have a women’s toilet for the drivers?
I only ask because I’ve been having an ongoing (fortunately now pretty tongue-in-cheek) arguement with 2 out of our 3 office-muppets…
The other drivers are banned from both the side and upstairs offices - in fact there’s a big notice on the door to these just to make sure everyone’s clear on the point. The yard toilets are arranged in such a way that there is no means of checking whether one of the lads in there until it’s too late…plus there’s no proper handwashing facility (The lasses will know what I’m getting at here), but since there’s only one of me then there’s no point suddenly building a second one…(I’m the first they’ve had in Hull as well, btw)
…so the compromise has always been for me to use the one just inside the downstairs office door, which is also a Gents but which has no urinal and 2 locking doors, plus the office staff kitchen is next door with a proper sink etc. No problem, problem solved. This has carried on unchallenged sinec I started just over a year ago.
Since I transferred from Southampton up to Hull I’m obviously around a lot more, and these two prats have decided to get a bee in their bonnet about it. In fact it has nothing to do with toilets and everything to do with the fact that I’m allowed in part of the building which the other drivers aren’t…a whinge which has now utterly backfired since I had a good moan to one of the Warehouse office staff yesterday and he showed me where the key to the one Ladies (right at the back of the admin bit, a definate driver-free zone) is hidden and told me just to come in and help myself - which increases my “right of way” threefold, including into an office where the aforementioned idiots have to knock first!!!
Point is, under Health and Safety law I could (not that I’m going to, because it’s not me that’s bothered) actually demand that they sort out proper facilities…and I’d be curious to know whether many firms have - and if not, what wierd and wonderful ways are the rest of you using to get 'round this one? As I said, it’s not me that’s bothered- I’m sure I’d only have to walk in on 1 or 2 of the other lads for it to become a major problem… 
Lucy thats the problem I’m afraid. H & S law is there for a reason unfortunately too many people like yourself take the can’t be bothered attitude. If everyone takes this same attitude as yourself things will never change. Nobody got nothing by the ‘not bothered’ route. Stand up and be counted.
On a lighter note just yell as you enter the toilets 
Problem is that if you speak out you get labelled as a trouble maker, making it hard for you to get on with other staff, get future jobs, etc.
I would only complain if it were the last resort.
lucy, it does not matter if the company you work for has one lady or 100 they should have proper facilities for yous,also disabled toilets. if i was you i would invite the health and safety officer to investigate this and see what these two pratts have to say then.we have all the facilities at our depot and if there is a problem with any aspects of health and safety then you are entitled to approach the h&s officer in our depot and he will bring it to the attention of the management at the next h&s meeting,which are held every month. why should you have to share toilet facilities with men its not right and its not on you company needs to address this problem now.you have rights so please get those rights into force now before they get out of hand.it is one off my pet hates drivers are treated like dirt on the sole of you shoes no matter what company you go to if its rdc’s or the small companies. i have went to some places and they have no facilities for drivers to use and its places that you know you will be there for x amount of hours and they expect you too sit there,don’t think so.we are all human beings why should we be treated ant different from the person who sits in the office just because we are drivers who are only doing our job just like they are doing.its not right and it should be sorted out.
Dapper Scavenger:
Problem is that if you speak out you get labelled as a trouble maker, making it hard for you to get on with other staff, get future jobs, etc.I would only complain if it were the last resort.
if you have a problem with anyone just because your a lady it does not stop your right to complain if something is not right. if you do complain and your boss does not like it i can bet its not the first time a lady has complained about it and it still has not been sorted.the more you complain the more your boss won’t like it and he will be forced to sort it. so don’t be affraid just because your a lady.
Lucy,
Seems to me it’s not so much a women/men problem as an office/driver problem. Way out of date in this day and age with drivers generally no longer being covered in grease and corruption. In the office I worked in in Nottingham before reverting to driver status we all, office,warehouse,drivers shared the same facilities except that one cubicle was designated female and, because it was larger and had a low wash basin, invalid. It worked well although one woman was not happy at the proximity of one to the other. When I asked why she replied ‘because you can hear us’. Don’t know about anyone else but that’s not my fetish and in any case, did she have seperate toilets at home? Of course not she was forced to admit.
As you all know I live in France. It is simply not a problem here.
By the way the ultimate in toilet discrimination was in the bad old days of the London docks where our ‘Transport Union Brothers’ prevented drivers using dockers’ bogs. We had to use the ‘Asian’ block which contained hole in the floor facilities. Actually more hygenic if kept clean.
Salut, David.
Lucy thats the problem I’m afraid. H & S law is there for a reason unfortunately too many people like yourself take the can’t be bothered attitude. If everyone takes this same attitude as yourself things will never change. Nobody got nothing by the ‘not bothered’ route. Stand up and be counted.
Fair point…but…
…Let’s get in the real world here. There are about 18 male drivers, plus subbies, plus the outdoor warehouse staff, plus Mick the Lethal Fork. There’s one of me. The firm has been going for well over 30-odd years and I’m the first female driver they’ve had in the Hull yard (There’s another in Southampton, but she does days and so never gets up that far) - and that’s including Agency drivers, which they use to plug gaps quite regularly.
If you were in the Gaffer’s shoes, what would you do? Spend a small fortune building a toilet for one driver which may never be used again if she leaves…or “avoid” employing women drivers because the potential overheads are too high…? Especially given as how there is the one Ladies (again only used by 2 out of about 15 admin staff) on the premises…?
It’s a sad fact of life that until there is a more even ratio of men to women within the industry, the investment is not going to be made. Add to that the fact that we all know that the only way to make a small fortune in Haulage is to start with a large one and you’re very definately on to a loser.
There are two other things which apply more generally and which through which women bring problems like this down on ourselves…
There are, like it or not, (tin 'at on) a fair few who come into the industry and then, for whatever reason, don’t last. Once upon a time there were fewer girls, but those that there were had fought long and hard to get there and therefore stuck at it by hook or by crook…these days it is a lot easier, but by no means a walk in the park - something which is as much to do with a shift in attitudes within society and the female population at large as any change in the workplace. The upside is that a lot more lasses are prepared to give it a shot…the downside is that, as with any job, there are greater numbers who decide fairly early on that it’s not for them. Because we are still very much in the minority, this creates a perception that a woman is “unlikely to stick it”, or even “playing at it” (a label that I, along with many other girls, am guilty of using… ), which just serves to make the whole situation worse for the rest of us. It’s a vicious circle.
The ones who are daft enough to keep plugging away (again, myself included… ) tend to base everything on the premise that they are “just another driver”…which in turn makes us very unlikely to be seen to be fussing about things like this for fear of causing trouble. This whole thread is a good illustration of that - as is my particular post about the toilet thing…it’s the office boys making it an issue, not me, despite the fact that I would be perfectly within my rights to do so. This, again, becomes a vicious circle…“no facilities” stays “no facilities”; this puts girls off; that leads to not so many women and a low “sticking” rate amongst those that there are; so no-one invests in facilities…and so on ad-infinitum.
Bottom line is that until something gives, this situation will continue, and women will continue to be under-represented within the industry. Those of us that are working full time, and have a few years (or a lot of years, and the infinite capacity to “beaver away away quietly” which goes with that) under our belts need to stand up and be counted - hence enabling the balance to be redressed…but, again, the real world gets in the way…
…which is why I’m going to just keep my head down, do my job, and hence avoid getting all the dodgy jobs and day runs for the next month!!!
more you complain the more your boss won’t like it and he will be forced to sort it
Nice in theory
However lets look at the reality of the UK haulage industry.
for all its protestations of being a world leader and up to date, our industry is still stuck in the 1950s.
Attitudes to anyone out of the norm still prevail, not only in the traffic office but also in the drivers tearoom.
A female driver does not have to be as good as a male driver. They have to be better. If a driver scre…ERRRRRR…makes an error, if they are male we all extract the urine then commiserate then reminisce about when we made the same mistake. A driver who is outside the norm will be seen to have made the mistake because they are female/black/disabled etc.
In my varied career I have met and had the pleasure of working with many professionals some of these have been female. I have always seen a driver as a driver, unfortunately the industry at large does not, they take any exception to the norm as an issue.
A white male driver complaining about the toilets would be a driver whinging. A female driver complaining abotu the toilets would be seen as a woman making an issue of the fact she is female and a troublemaker. Don’t like this? Nor do I.
The vast majority of road haulage in the UK is not carried out by enlightened multinational logistic companies but by small independent hauliers, who for many years have carried goods in the same manner employing the same type of person. They have survived by keeping to a tried and trusted formula. This does not reflect the changes in society that the rest of UK plc have taken on board.
Women in our industry have a fight on their hands, if we are genuine about us treating all drivers as professionals regardless of whther they fit in the norm then males should be the ones raising these issues alongside their counterparts without prompting.
Just my 2 penniesworth.
kitkat:
so don’t be affraid just because your a lady.
It’s not a matter of being afraid. It’s a matter of knowing which side my bread’s buttered.
In this particular job, I went through the inevitable period - as do all drivers, it’s just more so with women - where they did everything possible to make me give up. I won the battle, and for the next year had (as far as possible) the start times I wanted, the nights out I wanted, and the runs I wanted. And before you all start, that had nothing to do with being female and everything to do with being good at my job - and I can say that with complete certainty, as there’s another lass in Southampton and she doesn’t get the same treatment.
I then moved up to Hull at the beginning of this year, and - despite it being the exact same 3 people who I’m dealing with - had to fight the battle all over again, only this time around the slightly different working practises used with the Hull drivers (a situation which is down to Southampton being merely an outbase entirely run by phone).
Again, I now get the work I want, the nights out I want, the starts and finishes I want, and - unlike the majority of the others - left alone to do my job without the phone ringing every 5 minutes. Again because I’ve proved that i get my head down and get on with my job.
Do you really think I should jeapordise(spelling?) that for the sake of whinging about something which doesn’t actually bother me, for which we have found an amicable compromise, and has become (as I said in my first post on the subject) a tongue-in-cheek source of banter■■?
I know that the other lads would back me up if I wanted to put my foot down…simply because, again, I fought that battle and have proved that I’m just one of them with curvy bits. I just choose to stick with the status quo.
(ps.Rikki says “That’s no lady, that’s my girlfriend!” …although comments like that may put him on somewhat dicey ground!!! )
The law as it stands in the UK - hope this helps
What toilet and washing facilities do I need to provide?
You have to provide adequate toilet and washing facilities for your employees. ‘Adequate’ means you have to provide:
Enough toilets and washbasins for those expected to use them - people should not have to queue for long periods to go to the toilet;
Where possible, separate facilities for men and women - failing that, rooms with lockable doors;
Clean facilities - to help achieve this walls and floors should preferably be tiled (or covered in suitable waterproof material) to make them easier to clean;
A supply of toilet paper and, for female employees, a means of disposing of sanitary dressings;
Facilities that are well lit and ventilated;
Facilities with hot and cold running water;
Enough soap or other washing agents;
A basin large enough to wash hands and forearms if necessary;
A means for drying hands, eg paper towels or a hot air dryer;
Showers where necessary, ie for particularly dirty work.
You must always consider the needs of those with disabilities.
Womens facilities generally are poor if they exist at all. I spent a couple of months working for a concrete company where all the drivers had one loo between them. It didn’t even have a working bolt on the door.
WHen I did tipper work, I needed the loo at the quarry we tipped at, and they had a women’s loo, but no-one had asked to use it in so long they’d lost the key! I used the gents then, because my need for the loo was greater than the need for the key…
Don’t know about this “No rules - lift what you’re able to lift” stuff. I have been told by my doctor to stick to the HSE guidelines of 16kg. I’ve got to go into hospital later this month to fix all the damage I did to myself by ignoring them. Handballing 25k boxes of books for 3 hours a day did me a lot of injury.
As far as facilities are concerned, it is a legal requirement for places of business to provide facilities for employees - including visitors on business (which includes drivers). Try the Factories Act, Equal Opportunities Act, ■■■ Discrimination Act and of course H&SAW. In Lucy’s case, the facilities are there but it appears that access is hindered. Most places of work now have mixed staff and the facilities for them, so it’s mostly a case of forcing the muppets to acknowledge your legal right to use them without hinderance. The fact that they try to prevent you access because it’s in an admin area just supports the staff/drivers prejudice.
Allikat - as I said, the instructor came out with this line - I don’t neccessarily agree with it. This is actually a contentious subject for me. I did a bit of weight lifting/training in my youth and I always seem to be involved in heavy lifting jobs. The fact that I can carry a 52kg worktop in one hand safely doesn’t mean that everyone else can, or should be expected to. Having said that, a drivers mate who can’t manage 40kg is not much use to me during a days work. Limiting the weight I can carry would be a major inconvenience to me in my current job but I don’t want to see the situation where the bosses can bully people into trying to lift too much - so what do you do?
Jules
I used to just stress and strain and get the job done.
Now I can’t do that any more. I have to turn round and say to the boss that I can’t shift it without propper equipment.
It actually helped get me fired from one job. The boss said I’d not told him I couldn’t lift heavy weights… after I’d been off for 2 weeks having broken my shoulder.
…here’s a question for the girls…
How many of you work for firms which actually have a women’s toilet for the drivers?
Where I work there are toilets in the workshop building, (lockable and unisex.) However, because the guys are not the tidiest of people, I just go use the ladies in the office. The management have no problems with this, in fact I seem to recall it was the TM’s suggestion in the first place.
LucyR:
…plus there’s no proper handwashing facility (The lasses will know what I’m getting at here)
La, la, la quick change the subject. Me a new man, no chance.
Having read your post it seems that you have sorted out a solution to getting facilities and a company having to build a toilet for one woman driver is more likely to hinder efforts to get more women drivers.
There is still some resistance to women truck drivers in this industry, not only from employers, but also from drivers. My brother doesn’t really think that its a job for a woman, not becuase they can’t drive, but becuase they can’t do the heavy lifting. I had to remind him that our mother used to work on the farms and would lift bags of spuds and drive a tractor.
My feeling is it is not if you are a man or woman that will make you able to do this job, it is your attitude and ability.
Hang on, if you lot can whinge about self tipping at Aldi/Liddle/Netto, then surely heavy lifting isn’t part of the job of a driver? Hrm?
Answer that one and you may have a point.