Full off Maddog.com
The documentation is at home and I will dig it out when I get there, be about 10 days or so as currently en route to Europe!
However I remember the prosecution defining a “break” as something u would take in a layby, lorry park or somewhere similar to where you would park for a daily rest period, where you take the time you require to recuperate without any disturbance!
The company I worked for had its operators licence reduced by 30vehicles and trailers for persistent offending,(other offences were found in the portable office they placed in our yard to fully investigate the company) and I along with a few others lost my job, Thus making the £2000 plus cost fine I received very hard to pay!
Since then I’ve been in jobs where inhardlybhave to deliver to RDC’s, and I now run completely and totally legally so as not to put myself in that position again!
How you guys want ti work is totally up to you and none of my business, my original reply on this topic stated some of the rights/wrongs of the original OP!
However I do urge you to be wary as VOSA will be getting very very strict once September 2014 arrives!
retro rob … what a load of things that hang between horses legs… if its on bed and you aint doing any thing its a break simple…
I can see the sense of saying that a split daily rest can’t be taken sat in a poxy RDC waiting room, this is after all rest and the requirement for free disposal of time applies. But I can’t see any reason why a driving break can’t be taken sat in the waiting room.
my break every shift is taken in a waiting/drivers room, seriously cant see a problem… even on dray used to get my breaks as a driver but the mate I had with me would unload whilst I was on break 
as he would take his break and get a kip whilst i was driving 
superR500:
any body know on how the law stands with the wonderfull tesco rdc withholding my keys and not giving them back to me after i’ve told them i only have an hour an a half left on my tacho and 40mins of that is to drive back to base as it was a sat morning and no body was able to come and collect me… i wont go into full details as it would take ages to type, but i had to get really forcefull and start arguing with the goods in manager, as i dont think it’s fair that the young lad at the window deserves me ranting at him…
“Need your keys drive”
Why?
“Company policy”
Our company has one of those as well - policy that is - drivers do not surrender the keys to unknown persons. I can unhook the trailer ,disconnect the red line , fit a Salvo lock whatever you want but we do not hand over the keys of our trucks ,now what is it going to be ? "
usually end up dropping the trailer .
Fatboy slimslow:
symbol for our POA is europes BREAK
Really■■?
I’m under the impression that the uses of the modes are standardised, so which rule are you referring to please?
What utter ■■■■■■ If you’re not working it’s a break. Therefore you can put the tacho up your arse for all I care. Why can’t people just stop all this ■■■■■■■■.
It’s not rocket science tacho law but MMTM it’s more complicated than you think so we worry and make it an arse ache. Why I don’t know
For what it’s worth OP I would of been kicking off as well
Conor:
tango boy:
shuttlespanker:
ROG:
Give em a ‘spare’ setyeah, so the driver can pull away from the bay whilst still being tipped
Is ROG some kind of TRAINER■■? Or some kind of MUPPIT■■?
The only muppet is someone who pulls off a loading bay on a red light.
If I had been sat there 7 hrs the colour of the light would matter not 1 bit!
I mean hrs ffs how long do they need?, if some of the brown nose operators would make a stand and refuse to wait about all day something may get done
this rdc work sounds to me like it’s not worth a toss, well for an o/d anyway
shuttlespanker wrote:
ROG wrote:
Give em a ‘spare’ setyeah, so the driver can pull away from the bay whilst still being tipped
Is ROG some kind of TRAINER■■? Or some kind of MUPPIT■■?
Actually on a unrelated not pulling off note, The spare set isn’t that daft
Muppet’s at RDC have a habit of losing/misplacing keys, or if your really unlucky like I was whilst waiting the guy unloading you shift finished so he go home with your keys why I away give them a spare set
there was a lad in Tesco kilsby the other day,who demanded his keys back because he was approaching 6 hours and needed a break.
this nob head desk jockey came to the counter and asked why he hadn’t put it on poa,as then he wouldn’t need to close the bay down whilst he took a break.
the lad said it was irrelevant as he had been there 4.5 hours,and needed the use of the microwave in his truck to prepare a meal.
stuck to his guns as well
OK, I see this example as a time when taking break/POA in an RDC is allowed.
You are waiting to go on a bay and the goods in person tells you it will be a couple of hours. That could be POA or Break. Because you can do anything you want in that time with the exception of leaving the site. You can also reasonably refuse to go onto a bay if they call you before your required break is over because they told you that you wouldn’t be disturbed for two hours or so.
If they told you that they couldn’t give en estimate of how long it would be before you are on a bay then you couldn’t use anything but crossed hammers because you may be called at any time to return to work but they haven’t indicated how long the POA would be.
Retro rob:
The documentation is at home and I will dig it out when I get there, be about 10 days or so as currently en route to Europe!However I remember the prosecution defining a “break” as something u would take in a layby, lorry park or somewhere similar to where you would park for a daily rest period, where you take the time you require to recuperate without any disturbance!
The company I worked for had its operators licence reduced by 30vehicles and trailers for persistent offending,(other offences were found in the portable office they placed in our yard to fully investigate the company) and I along with a few others lost my job, Thus making the £2000 plus cost fine I received very hard to pay!
Since then I’ve been in jobs where inhardlybhave to deliver to RDC’s, and I now run completely and totally legally so as not to put myself in that position again!
How you guys want ti work is totally up to you and none of my business, my original reply on this topic stated some of the rights/wrongs of the original OP!
However I do urge you to be wary as VOSA will be getting very very strict once September 2014 arrives!
Blimey, he must be lost in Europe. Maybe he’s been locked up in Germany for taking a break in an unofficial spot.
nsmith1180:
If they told you that they couldn’t give en estimate of how long it would be before you are on a bay then you couldn’t use anything but crossed hammers because you may be called at any time to return to work but they haven’t indicated how long the POA would be.
Or you could use it as a break
shuttlespanker:
ROG:
Give em a ‘spare’ setyeah, so the driver can pull away from the bay whilst still being tipped
Maybe the useless Tesco staff should work much quicker.
Fatboy slimslow:
OVLOV JAY:
So would you leave it on crossed hammers for 7 hrs Rob?yes we should do
POa is POA in Europe too.
Had I been in this position I would have politely made my point about the legal issues and asked for the name and title of the senior manager in charge.
I would then make a selection of written manual entries including the times, managers name etc and get home when I get home. I wouldn’t be happy and would take my grievance to my boss as per the company grievance procedure and expect him to take it to Tesco/Supplier etc
I would ensure I take my full rest as required and would of course expect to get paid accordingly for the extra work and any out of pocket expenses etc. I would carry my manual entries for the required time.
I would hope anyone in these ridiculous situations would be supported by their bosses before it got this silly.
On the subject of break, rest, freely able to dispose of my time etc etc I have never read such a load of rubbish as has been posted by some. A break can be recorded as long as the driver is not working or driving and is using the time exclusively for recuperation.
I have an email from VOSA head office at Bristol that confirms waiting time ‘could’ be recorded as break.
Also - consider that when multi-manned a driver is considered to be taking a break when trapped in a moving vehicle unable to do anything other than sit there while the other guy drives. If that is legal then taking a break in a half decent waiting room able to pace up and down etc is certainly a much better situation.
I have yet to see any documentary evidence whereby a driver has been prosecuted/fined for recording a break at Tesco. The ones I have seen are where the driver recorded break but did other activities during that period meaning the mode did not represent the activity taking place or where they were using the time as a split rest - which it cannot be.
If a driver selects break when leaving his vehicle and going into Tesco etc, he will almost certainly break the rules as he will likely carry out different activities during the period he is away from the vehicle. (Just handing your keys in is work).
A driver can remove his card whilst working away from the vehicle and unable to operate/access the recording equipment. Make notes (mental or written) of the timings of various activities that take place, then manually input them on return to his vehicle.
shep532:
If a driver selects break when leaving his vehicle and going into Tesco etc, he will almost certainly break the rules as he will likely carry out different activities during the period he is away from the vehicle. (Just handing your keys in is work).A driver can remove his card whilst working away from the vehicle and unable to operate/access the recording equipment. Make notes (mental or written) of the timings of various activities that take place, then manually input them on return to his vehicle.
so…next time I`m in Tesco,i pull my card…and then put it back in on return to the vehicle,and then do a manual entry for the 90 seconds or so it took to hand my keys in.(plus the 3 hours or so…break)
if so… there is no hope
shep532:
Had I been in this position I would have politely made my point about the legal issues and asked for the name and title of the senior manager in charge.I would then make a selection of written manual entries including the times, managers name etc and get home when I get home. I wouldn’t be happy and would take my grievance to my boss as per the company grievance procedure and expect him to take it to Tesco/Supplier etc
I would ensure I take my full rest as required and would of course expect to get paid accordingly for the extra work and any out of pocket expenses etc. I would carry my manual entries for the required time.
I would hope anyone in these ridiculous situations would be supported by their bosses before it got this silly.
oh right…brilliant.
so next time I phone the boss to tell him Im running out of time...instead of telling me to pull out and find some where safe to park,he says "no problem...stick it out until your done..and make a printout when you get back.ill bring it up with the supplier in the morning"(like they give a ■■■■)
so you`ve done an 18 hour shift, no probs.what happens the next time your tm is in the ■■■■? another 18 hour shift?
then one a week maybe
makes me wonder if these vosa bods actually have any realistic knowledge of the industry we work in,going by the statements highlighted.
I thought the rules were meant to be about safety ffs 
you get all hoity toity about not recording 2 mins for handing keys in…but seem fine with going well over a 15 hour shift(bearing in mind,my last daily rest may have been only 9 hours)