Wiping the slate clean

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

Rob K:
There was a very easy way out of this. If it had been me I wouldn’t have been in this position, but for argument sake let’s say I was. When the Ministry pulled me up about it arguing that I’d driven for 5.15 without a sufficient break I would have turned round and said to him that I’d actually only had 30 mins break after the first 3 hours and then had 30 mins of ‘other work’ but forgot to change the mode switch. I doubt that you’d get a summons for forgetting to move the mode switch. Obviously, the 30 mins ‘other work’ then makes the rest of the tacho legal.

:sunglasses:

Providing of course you had endorsed the tachpo as soon as you realsied you made the mistake then you might just have got away with that but making it up as an excuse when you have been pulled i dont think you would stand a cat in hells chance, unless you have very large breasts and the ministry man is prone to a breast or two!!!.

22

jammymutt:

Rob K:
There was a very easy way out of this. If it had been me I wouldn’t have been in this position, but for argument sake let’s say I was. When the Ministry pulled me up about it arguing that I’d driven for 5.15 without a sufficient break I would have turned round and said to him that I’d actually only had 30 mins break after the first 3 hours and then had 30 mins of ‘other work’ but forgot to change the mode switch. I doubt that you’d get a summons for forgetting to move the mode switch. Obviously, the 30 mins ‘other work’ then makes the rest of the tacho legal.

:sunglasses:

Providing of course you had endorsed the tachpo as soon as you realsied you made the mistake then you might just have got away with that but making it up as an excuse when you have been pulled i dont think you would stand a cat in hells chance, unless you have very large breasts and the ministry man is prone to a breast or two!!!.

I disagree. Not all of the Ministry folks are zebidee’s. Besides, I don’t believe in taking the tacho out until my shift has finished. I wouldn’t have written on any errors until that time. I think it looks suspicious if they see you’ve taking it out mid shift, even if you think you’ve had a legit’ reason to do so.

23

Actually completed a tacho course 10yrs ago after the the rolling hours rap our boys in blue tried to collar us with. A driver stood up for his rights all hail him! The case was brought to Euro’ court;
It was artiicle 7(1) and (2) EEC Regulation No. 3820/85 -.
As always our friend Mr Coffee dude is right!

How about this then?

The working week is a fixed week 00.00 Mon :arrow_right: 24.00 Sun

You are allowed to extend driving to 10 hours, 2 occasions per week.

If you work rolling shifts (nights) and work between Sun/Mon can you drive 10 hrs Fri, 10 hrs Sat and 10 hrs Sun into Mon as you have only driven say 5 hrs in Sun a new fixed week begins 5 hrs = ‘New week’. Yep we have to work it out to stay legal!! :confused: Thats 3 10s in a row!! in a ‘rolling shift week’!
Confused you will be after next weeks episode! :laughing: :laughing:

24

Rob K:
There was a very easy way out of this. If it had been me I wouldn’t have been in this position, but for argument sake let’s say I was. When the Ministry pulled me up about it arguing that I’d driven for 5.15 without a sufficient break I would have turned round and said to him that I’d actually only had 30 mins break after the first 3 hours and then had 30 mins of ‘other work’ but forgot to change the mode switch. I doubt that you’d get a summons for forgetting to move the mode switch. Obviously, the 30 mins ‘other work’ then makes the rest of the tacho legal.:sunglasses:

Ay I’m with you mate! If ever I get in that situation, follow your advice and I get away with it. I’ll buy you a pint or three! :wink: Cheers. :smiley:

25

Wheel Nut:
We know you can do what you posted, but as usual you have gone off at a tangent.

Maybe I’m just a tange - rine :question: :laughing: :laughing:
We all know what the law is! :slight_smile: I think :confused: I guess what dave was showing us, was how easy it is to fall foul of a daft set of rules :wink:

Wheel Nut:
You do it your way, I do it mine

I do it your way my friend! :slight_smile:
Thats why I’ve never been ‘done’. :wink:

When I ‘dodged’ the tachos were still spot on! They would have to have caught me in the act to prove anything. (no what I mean?).

26

robB39:
Thats 3 10s in a row!!

In fact Rob it is possible to do FOUR 10s in a row legally if your working week straddles a weekend and is another example of how bizarre the rules can be. If you worked Thursday to Tuesday you could do 10 hours driving on Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday and that would be legal. However if a driver does 10 hours driving on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday that would be illegal, so one driver could be nicked and the other not for doing virtually the same thing. :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :unamused: :unamused:

27

I quite often start the day, drive for less than an hour, then go on break.

I use an hour guard, and I often go onto “other work” when I am actually “doing nothing” simply to avoid taking a full 45.

I also pay little attention to the ministry definition of a working week. What does it matter if I take my weekly rest on a Wed/Thurs one week and Sun/Mon the next week. As long as I don’t exceed the weekly/fortnight hrs and take all the proper break and rest periods (and compensate etc) then I can’t really see that the TC is going to slate me!

Coffee — as an o/d, do you switch off from thinking or doing business during breaks or rest? I reckon most small business folk regard it as a 24/7 job!

28

spaceman:
Coffee — as an o/d, do you switch off from thinking or doing business during breaks or rest?

Yep, the day it becomes 24/7 is the time to stop for me. I’m on daily rest now, this isn’t work reading these forums this is pleasure, and the phone is on silent so if it rings I won’t know until the morning when I pick it up and look to see if I have missed any calls, then I’ll know if it is a business call or not. I do the same when I’m on a ‘45 break, the phone goes on silent because that is my time.’

I’ll be home tomorrow and when I get home, around midday, I’ll knock out the invoice for this trip, do any other paperwork or business stuff that needs doing and that, apart from a phone call about 5 PM on Friday to find out what I’m doing next week, will be it for business stuff until Sunday morning.

29

There was a very easy way out of this. If it had been me I wouldn’t have been in this position, but for argument sake let’s say I was. When the Ministry pulled me up about it arguing that I’d driven for 5.15 without a sufficient break I would have turned round and said to him that I’d actually only had 30 mins break after the first 3 hours and then had 30 mins of ‘other work’ but forgot to change the mode switch. I doubt that you’d get a summons for forgetting to move the mode switch. Obviously, the 30 mins ‘other work’ then makes the rest of the tacho legal.

I’m with rob I would have said the same and said I was going to write it in at the end of my shift.
Although I think the point of the thread was the driver had broken the law but the magistrate didnt fully understand the drivers laws.
I hope if I ever make a mistake (I have an hour guard so its unlikely :slight_smile: ) I get the same majistrate LOL

30

I have to say,that since I bought my Hour Guard from Davey Driver,I’ve never had ANY tachos back for break infringements.

Ken.

31

Quinny:
I have to say,that since I bought my Hour Guard from Davey Driver,I’ve never had ANY tachos back for break infringements.

Ken.

Whilst I agree Daveys’ hour guard is good… but I got to ask this…

yep I know its personnal…but

are you sleeping with Davey ■■? :smiling_imp: :smiling_imp:

32

Coffeeholic:

robB39:
Thats 3 10s in a row!!

In fact Rob it is possible to do FOUR 10s in a row legally if your working week straddles a weekend and is another example of how bizarre the rules can be.

If you have a fixed week, then the ten hours in the period that straddle weeks is not in any week??!! It is only 5 hours in each? :confused: If you interpret it that way you could do five in a row??!!

I think the those countries with a ban over midnight Sunday/Monday wrote that rule and forgot, there are those that work over that period.

33

Quinny:
I have to say,that since I bought my Hour Guard from Davey Driver,I’ve never had ANY tachos back for break infringements.

Ken.

LOL Ken

You forgot to mention the Special Offer in the Hour Guard Forum :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

34

robB39:
If you have a fixed week, then the ten hours in the period that straddle weeks is not in any week??!! It is only 5 hours in each? :confused: If you interpret it that way you could do five in a row??!!

Errr, no, you couldn’t do five in a row and it’s nothing to do with interpretation it’s fact, the most you can do in a row is four.

Assuming you start work on say Thursday after a weekly rest period and on the Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday prior to the weekly rest you haven’t done a 10 and you do 9 or less on the Thursday and Friday you could drive 10 hours on the Saturday and the Sunday and they would be in one week. Then drive 10 hours on the Monday and the Tuesday and they are in the second week. Four 10s in a row and legal.

robB39:
I think the those countries with a ban over midnight Sunday/Monday wrote that rule and forgot, there are those that work over that period.

Very few countries have a ban over that time and in fact it is one of the busiest time of the week for trucks on the roads of Europe as they all hit the road after the Sunday bans finish at 22:00, in most places that have bans.

35

OK, this is what I meant.

Law = Fixed Week
00.00 Mon / 24.00 Sun

You can extend driving to 10 hours twice in that fixed week.

WEEK 1
Fri/Sat Night = 10hrs
Sat/Sun = 10hrs
‘2 tens’
Sun = 5hrs before week stops at 24.00

____________ THE WEEK IS FIXED _______________

WEEK 2
Mon = 5hrs, this driving is 5 in ‘new week’
Mon/Tue = 10hrs
Tue/Wed = 10hrs
‘2 tens’ in this week

You have only done two periods of ten in each ‘fixed week’

Correct me if I’m wrong I didn’t think there was a ‘four tens’ in a row law. :question:

36

robB39:
OK, this is what I meant.

Law = Fixed Week
00.00 Mon / 24.00 Sun

You can extend driving to 10 hours twice in that fixed week.

Agreed, so you could do your 10s on Saturday and Sunday in the first week and Monday and Tuesday in the second.

robB39:
WEEK 1
Fri/Sat Night = 10hrs
Sat/Sun = 10hrs
‘2 tens’
Sun = 5hrs before week stops at 24.00

____________ THE WEEK IS FIXED _______________

Only equals five hours if you are still driving and have only done five hours at midnight, you could have done the whole ten hours during the day and be tucked up in bed long before midnight.

robB39:
WEEK 2
Mon = 5hrs, this driving is 5 in ‘new week’

Only if you were driving at midnight and still had five hours to do

robB39:
Correct me if I’m wrong I didn’t think there was a ‘four tens’ in a row law. :question:

The way the regulations are, with a fixed week and all reductions in daily rest and increases in driving hours are applied to the fixed week and not the period between weekly rest periods, it means you can do four in a row, provided it is Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday. It’s not possible to do four in a row on any other four day period.

Which takes us back nicely on topic and to the original post that started this thread. That pointed out how daft the rules could be sometimes, when a driver was being prosecuted for in effect having too much rest because if he had only taken between 30 and 44 minutes instead of an hour on his first break he wouldn’t have committed an offence. Likewise in this instance that we are discussing one driver could do four 10s in a row and be leagal and another do it and be illegal.

Looks like a lot of these loopholes will be closed when the new rules come in.

37

well after reading all that ive got a headache i play it safe if i know im gonna be sat waiting more than 45 mins i put the tacho on break when i move i put it on other work i will then drive for only 4 and a half hours before taking another 45 i dont do this 15mins here and 30 min there malarky it just confuses the issue for me :confused:

38

So, can you do five??!!

If, it is, that one of the 10hr driving periods crosses the fixed week into the new fixed week.

Another anomoly, Rob K hasn’t worked for three weeks (21days). He has to hand his tacho to the vehicle operator within that period. But also as to have the last tacho from the last week he worked! :confused:

You can’t do both :slight_smile: :exclamation:

Thank goodness for photocopiers. :sunglasses: :laughing:

39

No you can’t do five because in any two fixed weeks you can only do four.

Rob K only has to have the disc from the last day he worked if it is less than 21 days, there is no legal requirement to have it if it is longer than 21 days. He could carry a letter from his boss explaining that he hasn’t worked for 21 days and indeed if going over the water that would be a must.

Something like this would do the job.

40

I can see what you’re saying, if I worked through the day Sat = 10 hrs, Sun = 10hrs, Mon = 10hrs, Tue =10 hours.
Right that’s your four.

But as in my example above if ten crosses midnight in the ‘fixed weeks’ thats only five hours in each and not a 10 hour driving period in either. :confused:

So there’s two ten hour periods before.

And two after. Making FIVE.

I can’t see anything preventing this :confused: :exclamation: :question: