today i bumped in to a very old friend of mine who i have not seen for a few years. anyway after catching up on some gossip from days gone bye he goes on to tell me how a few years back he got a pull from the ministry up in in the north west ( were he,s from)
the result was that they were going to do him for insufficient rest periods .
appently he had done 5 hours 15 mins driving without taking a 45 minute break.
heres what he done
he had a delivery to a rdc.
he spent 3 hours driving there.( got told they were busy so would be waiting a while outside.)
so he stuck his tacho on break, had a cuppa and a sleep.
he was on break for 1 hour.
he then tipped and set of up the road. for roughly 1hour 15 minutes.
then took another 15 minutes break whilst he had a cuppa.
he then dove for four hours nonstop to collect a load from a warehouse .
he collected the load then stopped for the night
so in summary that is
3 hrs driving, 1hr break, 1.15hrs driving, 15 minutes break, 4 hours driving.
so the ministry bod said that because he had wiped the slate clean when he took his first break of an hour he had then done 5 hours and 15 minutes with only a 15 min break to show for it.
anyhow he went to court with his solicitor and get let off.
heres why.
if my mate had took 1/2 hours break instead of the hour and then took the remaining 15 minutes as he did do he would have been fine.
however because of the " wipe the slate clean" garbage he had broken the law.
the magistrate on this day was a last minute standin ,and apparently could not figure out the rules on her own and asked for some advice. when she got given the advice she started laughing. she could not believe that a driver was up in front of her for having half an hours rest more than he needed and was supposed to get punished for it.
hence he got let off.
personally , i would have thought that it should never have gotten that far anyway
This is the type of bizzare crap you get with over zealous toerags with power mad attitudes! That law is obviously bollox to any thinking being (even a magistrate it seems) but to the jobsworth that nicked him, well, what can you say.
You can drive for 4 an half hours, So whty do we think we can drive for 5 an a quarter hours.
he then tipped and set of up the road. for roughly 1hour 15 minutes.
then took another 15 minutes break whilst he had a cuppa.
he then dove for four hours nonstop to collect a load from a warehouse .
he collected the load then stopped for the night
Imagine you have just left home at 3am
You drive till 4.15 amd have a coffee, then you set off at 4.30 till 8.30!
What is the difference?
You have broken the law by driving for 5 and a quarter hours with a 15 minute break!
Then I suppose the only answer to this,is to buy an Hour Guard from Capitol Enterprises.
A fine device,if ever I saw one.It will keep you legal,and can be bought direct from Davey Driver,the head honcho at Capitol Enterprises.
No more worrying about those tachograph infringements.
But on a serious note…
My gaffer tried to catch me out with an infringement last week,from a chart from months ago.When I pointed out that I had an hour guard,and providing I switched the mode switch over when I changed my duty at the time,then there was no way,I would have any infringement against me.
He looked into it further,and guess what? A rather nice apology from him.
You can drive for 4 an half hours, So whty do we think we can drive for 5 an a quarter hours.
Because Malc the way the law stands at the moment you can and indeed for longer than that. In the example you give above, yes that is illegal as 5 1/4 hours have been driven with only fifteen minutes rest.
However because of the way the laws are applied in that after completing a 45 minute break, either in one block or in two or three parts, the slate is wiped clean it is possible to drive for longer periods with only 15 minutes rest.
At its most extreme you could start at 06:00 and drive until 06:01 then take a 30 minutes break, Then drive for another 4 hours and 29 minutes until 11:00 when you take another 15 minute break, this wipes the slate clean and you now have another 4.5 hours at your disposal. So from 11:15 you could drive until 15:45 there by doing 8 hours and 59 minutes with only a 15 minute break and it would be legal, it would be very stupid but it would be legal.
This is one of the loopholes that when the new driver’s hours finally come in will be closed
You can drive for 4 an half hours, So whty do we think we can drive for 5 an a quarter hours.
he then tipped and set of up the road. for roughly 1hour 15 minutes.
then took another 15 minutes break whilst he had a cuppa.
he then dove for four hours nonstop to collect a load from a warehouse .
he collected the load then stopped for the night
Imagine you have just left home at 3am
You drive till 4.15 amd have a coffee, then you set off at 4.30 till 8.30!
the driver in question had not driven for 5 and half hours.
had the driver only taken a 30 minute rest period whilst waiting at the rdc he would have been ok to do the rest of the driving and rest periods without prosecution.
what they were saying was that because the driver had more than the 45 mins rest he was not able to take a further 15 minute rest as a top up to equal the 45 minutes because he had already done the 45 minutes rest.
had the driver stopped his rest period after 45 minutes, moved the truck a few hundred yards then resumed his rest for another 30 minutes he waould have been ok too.
it is yet another example of how daft the rules can be misinterpreted by anyone who has the mind to.
What is the difference?
You have broken the law by driving for 5 and a quarter hours with a 15 minute break!
It dowsnt matter whether you have had a 45 hour weekend rest or an hour sleeping in a supermarket queue.
Wiping the slate clean starts from when you have completed a break. So to drive for 75minutes, rest for 15 minutes and then drive for 240 minutes is still 315 minutes behind the wheel. That is 5 and one quarter hours driving.
The 15 minute break only extends the time you should take another break.
All that was required in this particular case was either drive for longer in the first place or take 30 minutes rest enroute.
That’s correct Malc, in that scenario it is illegal because only 15 minutes rest has been taken. but if prior to the 75 minute drive you quote a break of thirty minutes had been taken then it would be legal and indeed the driver could still do another 30 minutes before stopping and still remain legal.
The slate is wiped clean after 45 minutes have been taken and as soon as that happens you can do another 4.5 hours and because of that it is possible to drive for up to 8 hours and 59 minutes with only 15 minutes rest and be legal.
I know that it is stupid given that in your example far less time has been driven but in that case it is illegal
I think we all know that its illegal, but I think the point is the driver had 1hour 15 mins of breaks in 8:15 driving and it was illegal, but if he had only taken 45 mins breaks he would have been within the law.
one of our lads takes 15min break at the start of his nite shift,after he checks his vehicle he puts his tacho on break and then has 15mins,heads of down south changes trls, has 30 mins and heads back up road.never had any probs.
What a load of bull bab the drivers hours law are!!
You could drive for 1/2 hour take a fifteen minute break then drive 1/2 hour take another 15 minute break, drive for a further 3 and a 1/2 hours take a 15 minute break (slate wiped clean) then drive another four and a half hours thats 8 hours solid driving with only a fifteen minute break!!!
That stops someone that genuinely feels tired to pull over and take rest that is required 'cos he could mess his schedule! Or fall foul of the LAW!!
That was my ‘argument’ with the vosa thread Wheelnut dude, still a stickler for the government propaganda I see.
I am sure that a long time ago, I saw something that said you have to do at least ONE HOURS work (from start of duty) before you could register a break. Therefore, you could not do what Coffee suggested!! Start at 0600 and take a break at 0601
Their is a little snippet in the drivers hours regs that go something like this: If the driver is taking a break, but not actually counting this as his/her 45 munite break, then the mode switch must be changed to the appropriate action. I’ll go and find the actual quote when I can be arsed. It contradicts the wipe the slate clean after 45 break though, doesn’t it.
That was my ‘argument’ with the vosa thread Wheelnut dude, still a stickler for the government propaganda I see.
Not at all. Just my interpretation of a particular set of driving periods.
We know you can do what you posted, but as usual you have gone off at a tangent.
The post was about:
3 hrs driving, 1hr break, 1.15hrs driving, 15 minutes break, 4 hours driving.
so the ministry bod said that because he had wiped the slate clean when he took his first break of an hour he had then done 5 hours and 15 minutes with only a 15 min break to show for it.
The way I have always done this is to count backwards, so 4 plus 1.25 with 15 minutes break cannot be right.
You do it your way, I do it mine
The last time i got done for drivers hours regs was 1976 for failing to sign the log book, and got fined £2
The driving period is not a rolling time. As soon as you have a total of 45 min break that counts as the break for that period of driving prior to the breaks. Whether it’s 4.5 hours 2 hours or 15 mins, you can then drive for another 4.5 hours before needing a break providing you don’t exceed any other hours regs. This is how you can end up legally driving for long periods with only 15 minutes breaks.
It doesn’t make sense because it was thought up by Civil Servants responding to the wishes of politicians, who in turn are pandering to lobby groups, made up of Haulage bosses on one side and anti trucks and road safety groups on the other.
TheBear:
I am sure that a long time ago, I saw something that said you have to do at least ONE HOURS work (from start of duty) before you could register a break.
Nowhere in the regulations does it state a minimum amount of time needed before you can register a break
hitch:
the 4.5 hours driving is a rolling time so in a period of long driving hours you need to show that you continously have 45 minute breaks
It’s not a rolling period, click this link to the DfT website and see section 14, click the little picture in section 14 to see examples of how breaks can be taken and in paticular look at example 3 which shows 8 hours driving with only a fifteen minute break.
There was a very easy way out of this. If it had been me I wouldn’t have been in this position, but for argument sake let’s say I was. When the Ministry pulled me up about it arguing that I’d driven for 5.15 without a sufficient break I would have turned round and said to him that I’d actually only had 30 mins break after the first 3 hours and then had 30 mins of ‘other work’ but forgot to change the mode switch. I doubt that you’d get a summons for forgetting to move the mode switch. Obviously, the 30 mins ‘other work’ then makes the rest of the tacho legal.
