Win Seering - some predictions for the near future

[winseer]

We don’t need to debate the lies told by both sides of Westmister - let alone the alleged lies told by both sides of the Brexit/Remain campaigning…

I’ve yet to hear WHAT the Left “desire Brexit to be” aka a Left Wing version of Brexit… As far as I know it is “ask them again until they pick the right result this time…” which is the common norm about the EU in the past when the voters “don’t conform”…

There are no plans to do away with the minimum wage, any of the worker’s rights worth holding onto, nor any drive to “race to the bottom” that isn’t already in full swing despite Brexit not being done as yet to stop that.

I didn’t like May’s deal - because it wasn’t Brexit.
I don’t like Boris deal so far - because it too, “doesn’t look like Brexit”.

There are a lot of mis-directions, and political plays in progress here.

If the Remain voters ditch Swinson and swing behind Labour to get rid of the Tories - Boris is GONE.
If the Leave voters ditch Remainer Tory MP incumbents - and swing behind Brexit Party to get rid of the Tories - Boris is GONE.

The Left - should see Brexit as a means of getting rid of the Tories rather than voting for a Remain party to try and defeat both Tory and Brexit at the same time.

If I, as a voter - am willing to give “loser’s consent” to a future Corbyn government IF a Hard Brexit is delivered - then how come Remainers are not willing to give “Loser’s Consent” in exchange for “getting rid of the Tories”…?

[winseer]

Carryfast:

Winseer:
To Me, THAT would be the “worst outcome of all” in this coming election.

“Another Hung parliament with no Brexit Party in it.”

That is exactly why Bojo has done a May 2.This is all about an effective second EU referendum but along constituency boundary lines which Remain can’t lose.The best solution for the Leave vote is to boycott it and/or do just as the Remainers did in refusing to recognise the result regardless.No vote is going to fix this nor should it.No one has the right to vote the country into EU vassalage.

If turnout collapses during this election - then you would seem to be correct - BUT are Leavers just going to roll over and die because the firm has told them “We ain’t doing what you say, but if you ask us to skive for five years, and do sweet FA as MPs - then we’ll back what you vote for all the way…”

f… that! - Drain the swamp already!

Remainers need to decide if they want to let Corbyn happen or Brexit to happen.

Leavers need to decide if they want Boris to happen or Brexit overturned.

We’re as divided as ever.

One bit of light at the end of the tunnel - there does seem to be some “swamp draining” going on as we speak TODAY - so all hope is not yet lost…

Boris with 340 seats and Brexit Party on 0 seats - means Brexit will never happen imo.
Boris with 320 seats and Brexit Party on 60 seats - means Brexit will happen rather quickly, as the Tories will be around “20 hard line remainers lite” - which might be starting to happen as we speak!!

[rjan]

Winseer:
I’ve yet to hear WHAT the Left “desire Brexit to be” aka a Left Wing version of Brexit… As far as I know it is “ask them again until they pick the right result this time…” which is the common norm about the EU in the past when the voters “don’t conform”…

My argument for Brexit would be more tariffs, more capital controls, and democratic oversight over the economy.

There are no plans to do away with the minimum wage, any of the worker’s rights worth holding onto, nor any drive to “race to the bottom” that isn’t already in full swing despite Brexit not being done as yet to stop that.

I disagree. You seem to think the Tory party, seeking a popular mandate and already clinging on by their fingernails, are foolish enough to constantly and openly state “yes, we’re going to hurt you, we’re going to use Brexit to attack you for another 5 years”.

If the Remain voters ditch Swinson and swing behind Labour to get rid of the Tories - Boris is GONE.
If the Leave voters ditch Remainer Tory MP incumbents - and swing behind Brexit Party to get rid of the Tories - Boris is GONE.

The real threat to Labour is not from Blairite Remainers dithering over supporting the LibDems. It’s from Brexiteers who will not support the party, will not join the party to help win arguments and win votes, constantly come out with right-wing nonsense that would even have Tony Benn spinning in his grave, and then get in a strop that the party isn’t offering them everything on a plate.

I think a lot of Brexiteers honestly think they are just being asked to jump through hoops like a job application, rather than realising that there is a cold war ongoing in Labour which requires numbers and arguments to win.

The Left - should see Brexit as a means of getting rid of the Tories rather than voting for a Remain party to try and defeat both Tory and Brexit at the same time.

If I, as a voter - am willing to give “loser’s consent” to a future Corbyn government IF a Hard Brexit is delivered - then how come Remainers are not willing to give “Loser’s Consent” in exchange for “getting rid of the Tories”…?

The reason most hardline Remainers won’t give losers consent, is because they’d sooner have the Tories in power than Corbyn, and they’d sooner have Brexit than Corbyn.

[carryfast]

Rjan:

Winseer:
…Should Labour Leave voters join forces with Conservative Leave voters and get behind Brexit party however - the Tories are going to be in BIG trouble.

You live in a fantasy world.

The sort of Leave which Labour voters want is utterly at odds with what Tory Leavers want.

You find me the driver who wants to cut his pay to £5 an hour or less to compete with the third world, and there you’ll have the man whom Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage really represent.

We really are entering the final stretch of whether workers are going to break the spell at the last moment, or whether they are going to support right-wing radicals who will leave all the working class in this country as high and dry as the fishermen.

But we also know that the Soviet Socialists’ view of ‘Leave’ is Remain with the intention of turning the 4th Reich into the EUSSR.Happily selling out Brit workers to cut price East Euro followed by Turkish labour markets while maintaining the German elites respectively as part of the zbwit plan.A bit like the idea of tacho enforced 15 hour shifts supposedly being good for the workers.The definition of useful idiots.

[winseer]

It looks like Labour voters should be thanking Farage from here on - he’s keeping his promise to “Tear the Conservative Party limb from limb” as evident by all the standing in Tory-held or even Tory-winnable marginals “out of spite” if you will. The Conservatives are going to be made to pay a VERY high price for failing to deliver Brexit in the 42 months they’ve had - keeping the Brexit progress bar on 0% as they have. We’re no nearer to achieving ANY kind of Brexit than were were the morning following the referendum result - but with Morale significantly down since that point…

Still… There’s a good chance that Labour Leave voters - will swing back to Labour rather than punt Brexit Party “just to remove a Tory/Libdem Remainer”.

The alternative? - “Give away their Labour Remainer seat to Brexit Party - as it weakens Boris Johnson”? Nice idea - but no matter how much that Labour Leave voter despises the Tories in general - Do they have enough faith to take the chance that sacrificing a handful of Labour seats as collateral damage to the Tories as swinging behind Brexit Party will involve?

There’s lots of propaganda going on at present that suggests Farage is about to stop Brexit himself - which seems to be this absurd notion based around the Tories rather than the Brexit Party “being the party of Brexit”…

I wish I knew what percentage of the 17.4m supported No Deal rather than supported Boris’ Soft Brexit■■?

We know already that the Remainers don’t support ANY kind of Brexit - don’t we?

I’m worried that should Brexit Party “step aside” for a Tory win “to keep Corbyn out” when such a move isn’t necessary, cos the Remainers are split themselves between Swinson, Plaid, SNP, Greens, and Labour… Brexit party finishing on zero seats -coupled with Boris Johnson "Not making significant enough inroads into Labour/Libdem Brexiteer seats like BP can make - scuppers Brexit once and for all, and the opposition will then be able to argue successfully that "We’ve seen the 17.4m support for Brexit collapse today. Time for that second referendum OR maintain your own dignity and office by “revoking article 50” - which Boris when faced with “5 more years as a ongoing hated PM and a nice pension” or “stepping down over his failure” - will no doubt do the FORMER rather than the latter. I suspect him of being prepared to throw Brexit under the bus once he’s got his “Majority” he seems to expect Farage to disband the Brexit Party to facilitate.

Let Battle Commence!!

I want Brexit done, ideally on WTO terms.
I don’t care if Boris, Farage, Corbyn, or the FTSE fall to achieve this.
If we throw away Farage to help Boris though? We’ll NEVER achieve this.
But throwing away Boris to help Farage…? We’re talking about Brexit done and the Tories GONE.

Surely that is something the Labour voter can at least tactically vote for in a Tory held seat - OR “Get rid of a Corbyn Hater” in a Blairite Remainer seat…

This coming parliament - started out being stuffed 75-80% with Remainers. AFTER this election?

…The pressure to overturn Brexit will continue - all the while Parliament has more than a critical mass of 2:1 (66%) Remainers to Brexiteers in it, I suggest.

How hard can it be to “Enrich” Parliament with around 10% of Brexiters - just to get the mix down to at least 65/35 from 72/25? It’s not enough of course…
52/48? - Seems realistic - but if 100 Remainer Tories are allowed to keep their seats with 0 seats to Brexit Party, the only 100% Brexiteer lot…

I reckon people are about to give up on Brexit, and the price the country pays for that is “Remaining” with a future rise of “Nationalist” rather than “Brexit” parties to come.
NOT good in my mind.

Forget “who wins” this election. It is a high turnout and high turnover we need to see - IF we are going to get any real change.
Should just a handful of seats change hands, and we end up with another hung parliament with no Brexit Party in it - then the “Abyss of Division” - continues - right up until our next national scandal that will impoverish us all - the Final Salary Pension Defaults due in around 10-20 years time.

There must be plenty of people like myself who are totally relying on that future pension, along with it’s lump sum - to perhaps clear their other debts in life, going into retirement - especially any outstanding mortgage.

[carryfast]

Rjan:
My argument for Brexit would be more tariffs, more capital controls, and democratic oversight over the economy.

Yes but first we have to have Brexit in which case we ain’t going to get that with an alliance of Soviet Socialists and Banker class Blairites allied with the SNP and LibDims and Tory Federalists all keeping us tied to the 4th Reich.So what did Corbyn do he campaigned for more EU Free market economics and chucked Hoey under the bus in favour of Starmer and allied himself with the Tory Federalist Party.Just like Callaghan allied with Thatcher in 1975.

[rjan]

Carryfast:

Rjan:
My argument for Brexit would be more tariffs, more capital controls, and democratic oversight over the economy.

Yes but first we have to have Brexit in which case we ain’t going to get that with an alliance of Soviet Socialists and Banker class Blairites allied with the SNP and LibDims and Tory Federalists all keeping us tied to the 4th Reich.So what did Corbyn do he campaigned for more EU Free market economics and chucked Hoey under the bus in favour of Starmer and allied himself with the Tory Federalist Party.Just like Callaghan allied with Thatcher in 1975.

Let’s not pretend you’ve spent the past 3 years arguing for tariffs, capital controls, and more democratic intervention and oversight of the economy.

You’ve been harping on about free trade deals and cheering for the party of the free market.

I agree Corbyn is in a terrible mess over Brexit, but the simple reason is because Brexiteers keep finding every excuse not to support Labour or Corbyn. If it isn’t Brexit, it’s some old complaint about New Labour. If it isn’t New Labour, it’s the colour of Corbyn’s suit. If it’s not his suit, it’s some expression that crossed his face at the cenotaph. And the solution is always to vote for more Tory lies.

Much as I regret it, there’s very little Labour can do with voters who won’t take yes for an answer, keep indulging their own fantasies, and keep finding excuses to support the Tories.

[franglais]

Rjan:
Much as I regret it, there’s very little Labour can do with voters who won’t take yes for an answer, keep indulging their own fantasies, and keep finding excuses to support the Tories.

Now, now.
We know that voting for the Tories makes sense really: they are intelligent and are the natural ruling class. bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p07t31w6
This gentleman explains it so well.
Stop struggling with getting people to think for themselves Rjan, they are going do what their natural leaders tell them to do.

[franglais]

Rjan:
Let’s not pretend you’ve spent the past 3 years arguing for tariffs, capital controls, and more democratic intervention and oversight of the economy.

You’ve been harping on about free trade deals and cheering for the party of the free market.

I think you may for forgiven for making an error there?
I reckon C.F. is strongly in favour of a Free Trade Brexit, but only if it involves high protective tariffs for UK industry.
He is also on record as wanting a local veto on building of windfarms etc. He is for local democracy.
He does support wanting central government to be able to decide where strategic infrastructure should go, so defeating nimbyism.
But if I`m wrong in that I am very sure he will correct me, and I offer Rjan my apologies in advance.

[winseer]

Rjan:

Carryfast:

Rjan:
My argument for Brexit would be more tariffs, more capital controls, and democratic oversight over the economy.

Yes but first we have to have Brexit in which case we ain’t going to get that with an alliance of Soviet Socialists and Banker class Blairites allied with the SNP and LibDims and Tory Federalists all keeping us tied to the 4th Reich.So what did Corbyn do he campaigned for more EU Free market economics and chucked Hoey under the bus in favour of Starmer and allied himself with the Tory Federalist Party.Just like Callaghan allied with Thatcher in 1975.

Let’s not pretend you’ve spent the past 3 years arguing for tariffs, capital controls, and more democratic intervention and oversight of the economy.

You’ve been harping on about free trade deals and cheering for the party of the free market.

I agree Corbyn is in a terrible mess over Brexit, but the simple reason is because Brexiteers keep finding every excuse not to support Labour or Corbyn. If it isn’t Brexit, it’s some old complaint about New Labour. If it isn’t New Labour, it’s the colour of Corbyn’s suit. If it’s not his suit, it’s some expression that crossed his face at the cenotaph. And the solution is always to vote for more Tory lies.

Much as I regret it, there’s very little Labour can do with voters who won’t take yes for an answer, keep indulging their own fantasies, and keep finding excuses to support the Tories.

If Labour had taken the Brexit stance after Cameron hijacked the Remain corner - Corbyn would be PM as of 2017.
If Labour had embraced No Deal instead of waiting for Farage to create a party around Easter time this year, and then romp the unexpected Euro elections with his motley band… Labour would be ahead in the polls now, and Brexit Party would be nowhere…

Instead, we get misleading articles like THIS where around 60 seats are “unaccounted for”.

Labour support collapses to half what it was in 2017

If the Tories “ain’t gonna get a majority” without Farage stepping aside, and yet Brexit Party are “expected to win no seats”…
Then if LABOUR are down to lose 80, with the Libdems & SNP only putting on 20 odd between them, with the other minors going nowhere - the suggestion is that people up and down the country - will vote Brexit Party “just to turf out their Remainer MP”… If that goes along Brexit-seat lines - then surely it would suggest BP winning 60 seats instead of the anticipated zero? It is all about how effectively “Project Fear” can make people fear a collapsing Labour vote more than this “Nu-Look” Brexit Party with “No Nigel Farage in it”… 100x more votable to Tory-hating Labour Blairite voters - surely??

…Anything can happen in the next 33 days election “Gestation Period”.

Don’t under-estimate Boris Johnson though… Farage isn’t the only one that might yet come up with “A stroke of Genius”…

Amazing Boris Johnson basketball trick shot

[carryfast]

Rjan:

Carryfast:

Rjan:
My argument for Brexit would be more tariffs, more capital controls, and democratic oversight over the economy.

Yes but first we have to have Brexit in which case we ain’t going to get that with an alliance of Soviet Socialists and Banker class Blairites allied with the SNP and LibDims and Tory Federalists all keeping us tied to the 4th Reich.So what did Corbyn do he campaigned for more EU Free market economics and chucked Hoey under the bus in favour of Starmer and allied himself with the Tory Federalist Party.Just like Callaghan allied with Thatcher in 1975.

Let’s not pretend you’ve spent the past 3 years arguing for tariffs, capital controls, and more democratic intervention and oversight of the economy.

You’ve been harping on about free trade deals and cheering for the party of the free market.

I agree Corbyn is in a terrible mess over Brexit, but the simple reason is because Brexiteers keep finding every excuse not to support Labour or Corbyn. If it isn’t Brexit, it’s some old complaint about New Labour. If it isn’t New Labour, it’s the colour of Corbyn’s suit. If it’s not his suit, it’s some expression that crossed his face at the cenotaph. And the solution is always to vote for more Tory lies.

Much as I regret it, there’s very little Labour can do with voters who won’t take yes for an answer, keep indulging their own fantasies, and keep finding excuses to support the Tories.

No I’m actually in favour of any Party or politician who is in favour of returning the ‘Sovereignty’ we’ll need, ‘to be able’ to impose,the ‘the type of’ protectionist ( which aren’t mutually exclusive with free trade ) economic policies we need.Which is how people like Benn and Shore found themselves on a similar side as Powell in the EU argument ( It’s all about Sovereignty remember ).

While Callaghan and Jenkins were unashamedly on the same side as Thatcher regarding the issue.No surprise the Europhile rabble all won out and as a result the country ended up being sold out to the interests of the German banker classses and German Federalism and continues to be because the Brit bankers have also bet on Germany.For Callaghan and Jenkins now read Corbyn and Starmer taking over from where Blair left off.

On that note there’s a difference between free markets based on mutually beneficial trade ( historically the Anglo Saxon UK/US/Australia/NZ model.

As opposed to race to the bottom economics based on open door Asian/Oriental and now also East Euro ‘trade’ ( imports ) including free movement of Labour,combined with what’s good for Germany,all at our expense.

So remind us which part of Labour economic policy past or present involves closing down the race to the bottom Asian/Oriental and East Euro connection and rebalancing the laughable UK/German trade ( foreign aid ) situation and increasing our beneficial trade links with US/AU/NZ.Also how do we do that while remaining an EU vassal state.

[rjan]

Franglais:

Rjan:
Let’s not pretend you’ve spent the past 3 years arguing for tariffs, capital controls, and more democratic intervention and oversight of the economy.

You’ve been harping on about free trade deals and cheering for the party of the free market.

I think you may for forgiven for making an error there?
I reckon C.F. is strongly in favour of a Free Trade Brexit, but only if it involves high protective tariffs for UK industry.

Which of course is a contradiction in terms, to argue both for free trade and tariffs.

Arguably you could have some sort of one-sided policy in which you protect your own markets but enforce exports into others’ markets, but that does not go by the name of free trade - in the old days it went by the name of mercantilism - and has always required overwhelming military force to impose it.

He is also on record as wanting a local veto on building of windfarms etc. He is for local democracy.
He does support wanting central government to be able to decide where strategic infrastructure should go, so defeating nimbyism.
But if I`m wrong in that I am very sure he will correct me, and I offer Rjan my apologies in advance.

Generally speaking he has muddled views, but that’s exactly the problem here in my view.

The irony is that he has succeeded in changing my views, in that I now broadly agree that Labour should be supporting Brexit and calling an end to single market freedoms.

[rjan]

Winseer:

Rjan:
…

If Labour had taken the Brexit stance after Cameron hijacked the Remain corner - Corbyn would be PM as of 2017.

I disagree. Because like I say, there’s always one more thing for Brexiteers like yourself, always one more (often increasingly trivial or remote) objection.

And it doesn’t seem to matter how many times or over how many years the Tories fail, how many times they capitulate to their Remain opponents, how out of touch their politicians are, how utterly and obviously mendacious their statements, or how obviously malign their plans are beyond Brexit, they are always seen as trustworthy hard-Brexiteers on the side of the little working man.

In my view it’s time Brexiteers get real about their behaviour. The Labour party hasn’t abandoned Brexiteers - Brexiteers have abandoned the Labour party, and they are determined always to find a reason not to return, no matter what they are offered.

And under those circumstances, they should not be surprised firstly that the Labour party will stop even attempting to reflect their views, and secondly that they will in due course be shafted by the Tory party into whom they invest their support regardless of their (malign) policies, (lack of) achievements, or past history of assaulting workers.

[franglais]

Rjan:
Arguably you could have some sort of one-sided policy in which you protect your own markets but enforce exports into others’ markets, but that does not go by the name of free trade - in the old days it went by the name of mercantilism - and has always required overwhelming military force to impose it.

It may not be your take on things, but when some Brexiteers say " we were great once…and we can do it all again" isn`t that what they are thinking of? A return to financial dominance, as you say, only obtainable through force of arms?
They may not say it out loud, in fact they may not have thought it through, but that is the vision that drives them.

[rjan]

Franglais:

Rjan:
Arguably you could have some sort of one-sided policy in which you protect your own markets but enforce exports into others’ markets, but that does not go by the name of free trade - in the old days it went by the name of mercantilism - and has always required overwhelming military force to impose it.

It may not be your take on things, but when some Brexiteers say " we were great once…and we can do it all again" isn`t that what they are thinking of? A return to financial dominance, as you say, only obtainable through force of arms?
They may not say it out loud, in fact they may not have thought it through, but that is the vision that drives them.

It’s certainly an interesting suggestion, although to be fair not even the most swivel-eyed Brexiteer has ever suggested breaking out the gunboats and returning to colonialism, and there’s no hint of it from even the most radical right-wing politicians either.

To be honest, given the extent of our trade deficits and the hollowing of our industry since 1979, it isn’t really necessary to attack other countries to gain export markets. It would be sufficient simply to more fully serve our own domestic demand - that alone would cause the domestic productive economy to soar, and the resumption of national control over the economy will terminate the threats from the foreign rich that they will withdraw investment or send factories abroad if they don’t get their way or get an oversized slice of the pie.

And the “make Britain great again” sort of narrative is entirely consistent just with that, of emphasising that we continue to possess huge economic power and potential, the majority of it wasted by inefficient market bureaucracies and the deadweight of carrying a massive rentier class. We’ve been here before in the 1930s, when people were marching for food and the rich told us the ■■■■■ was empty.

[winseer]

Maybe Brexiteers have indeed abandoned the Labour party, who didn’t pick up that gauntlet when they could have - and now the Conservative Voters are perhaps on the verge of doing the SAME?

Nigel Farage is correct not to succumb to bullying from the Tories to “stand down, or Corbyn gets in”.

In standing his ground - Farage’s new party now can mop up the votes of all those Labour voters who cannot stand the Tories, but live in a seat that alternates between Tory and Libdem, such as Lonsdale - Tim “Nice-but-Farron’s” seat… If I’m correct, then the turnout should surge at this election - benefiting Brexit Party over all other parties in the process. If Turnout collapses on the other hand - then the other minor parties will benefit, with Brexit indeed staying on zero seats, no doubt even with 52% of the vote - because that’s how the system somehow manages to deal with upstart parties that are “actually getting somewhere”. It would be highly suspicious if this “zero seats” came about without an accompanying run of “2nd place” results up and down the country… For instance, should BP finish 2nd in over 100 seats - it would somehow be believable that they lost “fair and square”, compared to what would undoubtedly be a “Conspiracy Theorist’s ■■■■■■■■■” should we be told on the morning of Friday 13th that “Sorry bud, 17.4m people either died, or switched to Boris Johnson’s Conservatives, who somehow still under-performed at the same time as Brexit Party got not only bugger all seats, but lost their deposits in the vast majority of the seats they stood in as well” Yeh right!

If turnout collapses - I’d be launching an investigation into recent business done by NHS incinerator plants - for starters!! There are other things that could be conveniently got rid of in bags labelled “Medical Waste - Don’t look! - Not a pretty sight within!” - hmm?

The so-called latest poll has the Brexit Party on 11-14% “winning no seats” for that. We’re at the same time expected to believe that both the Libdems and SNP will advance - on the same percentage of the vote, remembering that the Libdem vote is as far and widely spread as the BP vote, and there is little to compare the two shades of yellows here…

[winseer]

I’ve attempted to put a bet on tonight around “How many seats do Brexit Party win at the general election”…

I was looking for a big price about 50+ seats, say 50-1…

No Dice. I’ve been offered Evens on “Staying on 0 seats” or 4/5 “winning one seat or more”.

FFS - They ain’t taking any chances after my 40-1 win in 2017 - are they?

I’ve put a bet on “Turnout being over 75%” (12/1) and “Brexit Party being in Coalition” (16/1 with Tories, 100/1 with Labour) instead.
That’ll have to do for now.

I have a bet running from a year ago that Keir Starmer will be leading the Labour Party by 2020… That’s looking in good shape at the moment… £10 @ 12/1 there.

[carryfast]

Winseer:
Maybe Brexiteers have indeed abandoned the Labour party, who didn’t pick up that gauntlet when they could have - and now the Conservative Voters are perhaps on the verge of doing the SAME?

Nigel Farage is correct not to succumb to bullying from the Tories to “stand down, or Corbyn gets in”.

In standing his ground - Farage’s new party now can mop up the votes of all those Labour voters who cannot stand the Tories, but live in a seat that alternates between Tory and Libdem, such as Lonsdale - Tim “Nice-but-Farron’s” seat… If I’m correct, then the turnout should surge at this election - benefiting Brexit Party over all other parties in the process. If Turnout collapses on the other hand - then the other minor parties will benefit, with Brexit indeed staying on zero seats, no doubt even with 52% of the vote - because that’s how the system somehow manages to deal with upstart parties that are “actually getting somewhere”. It would be highly suspicious if this “zero seats” came about without an accompanying run of “2nd place” results up and down the country… For instance, should BP finish 2nd in over 100 seats - it would somehow be believable that they lost “fair and square”, compared to what would undoubtedly be a “Conspiracy Theorist’s ■■■■■■■■■” should we be told on the morning of Friday 13th that “Sorry bud, 17.4m people either died, or switched to Boris Johnson’s Conservatives, who somehow still under-performed at the same time as Brexit Party got not only bugger all seats, but lost their deposits in the vast majority of the seats they stood in as well” Yeh right!

If turnout collapses - I’d be launching an investigation into recent business done by NHS incinerator plants - for starters!! There are other things that could be conveniently got rid of in bags labelled “Medical Waste - Don’t look! - Not a pretty sight within!” - hmm?

The so-called latest poll has the Brexit Party on 11-14% “winning no seats” for that. We’re at the same time expected to believe that both the Libdems and SNP will advance - on the same percentage of the vote, remembering that the Libdem vote is as far and widely spread as the BP vote, and there is little to compare the two shades of yellows here…

The fact is taking part in this sham is an admission that the Referendum result is void.Also that the Leave vote is willing to accept a Remain win in a Referendum 2 based on Remain friendly Constituency lines.

Yes my bet is there will be a collapse in turnout party by rigging and partly real owing to voters like me saying boycott is the answer to democracy being used to justify treason.

As for TBP 1 seat per 4 million votes will prove about right ‘again’ and we can bet that plenty of the 17m will end up as no show in that regard.The end result rightly being that secession is never easy and democracy isn’t the right tool to deal with treason.This will have to be settled the hard way which means a loyal military and leadership which is something we ain’t got ‘so far’.

[rjan]

Winseer:
Maybe Brexiteers have indeed abandoned the Labour party, who didn’t pick up that gauntlet when they could have - and now the Conservative Voters are perhaps on the verge of doing the SAME?

Like I say, I’m not convinced many Brexiteers are willing to have their gauntlet picked up by Labour.

[rjan]

Carryfast:
This will have to be settled the hard way which means a loyal military and leadership which is something we ain’t got ‘so far’.

The problem is that forming a military unit requires solidarity and sacrifice, and iirc you’re talking to the same Winseer who was talking about strikebreaking a few weeks ago, so let’s hope nobody is relying on him not to defect when his feet are held to the fire or his palms are crossed with silver.

Secondly, you don’t have a military loyal to your views, so that just emphasises that your entire agenda is a fantasy. It’s the politics of Walter Mitty.