You aint going to get rich doing traction. The only way you will make real money is to do some kind of specalist work or moving goods directly for the producer. The reason sutable heavy haulage trucks hold there price is there are so few out there. If the all the eu aggreed to legalise two trailer 80t roadtrains from tomorrow the small number of trucks avalible would be making top dollar. Then five years down the line when you go to replace your truck the value will have plummeted as there will be lots more of these trucks around. The is a place for roadtrains in the uk thats WITH THE CIRCUS. If you have the money like you say to buy a truck buy one now and compete with the eastern europeans like you say you can.
just to put it into perspective, when they brought in bdoubles in australia, the idea was depot to depot, highway driving only, cant even back them, drive in drive out.
wasnt long before they opened up the rules to bring them into towns, but only on designated routes, but some of the designated routes are tighter than a nuns …t
if i run up the road with a single trailer i get paid 32 cents a km, if i run up the road with a n double i get 34
the only reason they exist now is because suppliers and receivers see the extra 12 pallets per load and see the economy in it, for the transpor operator things are different, but they find it harder to find single trailer loads now, even though the double loads dont pay that much more
but the simple fact is the driver has to watch out for more tyres, has to be more careful (no harm), and has to move more gates, straps than before, but not much more reward…
the appeal for bdoubles in australia is that unlike roadtrains theyre quite maneouvreable and you theoretically can get them into a lot of places, while thats easy for the office to say but not the driver who has to shunt them into s–t spots
b triples are the big buzzword now, be interesting to see what theyre paying their drivers when they become more maintstream on metropolitan work
and by the way you dont need a big kenworth banger to pull 60 tonne, i see FH16s and R500 - 620’s doing it just fine, only thing is the truck must be b-double rated, so reinforced 5th wheel and axles etc
Wheel Nut:
Your arguments fall down at almost every hurdle, if you can buy an old piece of junk to pull two trailers, so can the former commie bloc drivers. If they want to fanny about with 2 trailers which I doubt, instead a double manned team in your beloved Detroit Diesel powered Liaz or nowadays in a brand new topline Scania or an FH will be ahead of you as you do 10 hours driving, and they will be doing 20 hours in every shift. Or do you want solely British trucks to be able to work longer hours as well?
Oh, by the way, look, no double drive either
Wheelnut you need some glasses mate if you think there’s any connection between that mickey mouse outfit and a proper 80 tonner+ Stan Robinson type outfit.But you’d be right to say that it’s a more practical idea than the Denby bog roll transporter.But running 20 hour shifts with that thing is’nt going to bring the economies of scale of the pile it high and sell it cheap idea using high weights in addition to volume which is actually the the basis of your beloved rail freight industry.So let’s get Stan Robinson on here to balance up the argument.
beattun:
just to put it into perspective, when they brought in bdoubles in australia, the idea was depot to depot, highway driving only, cant even back them, drive in drive out.wasnt long before they opened up the rules to bring them into towns, but only on designated routes, but some of the designated routes are tighter than a nuns …t
if i run up the road with a single trailer i get paid 32 cents a km, if i run up the road with a n double i get 34
the only reason they exist now is because suppliers and receivers see the extra 12 pallets per load and see the economy in it, for the transpor operator things are different, but they find it harder to find single trailer loads now, even though the double loads dont pay that much more
but the simple fact is the driver has to watch out for more tyres, has to be more careful (no harm), and has to move more gates, straps than before, but not much more reward…
the appeal for bdoubles in australia is that unlike roadtrains theyre quite maneouvreable and you theoretically can get them into a lot of places, while thats easy for the office to say but not the driver who has to shunt them into s–t spots
b triples are the big buzzword now, be interesting to see what theyre paying their drivers when they become more maintstream on metropolitan work
and by the way you dont need a big kenworth banger to pull 60 tonne, i see FH16s and R500 - 620’s doing it just fine, only thing is the truck must be b-double rated, so reinforced 5th wheel and axles etc
I’m not referring to b doubles Beattun because a Scandinavian type drawbar outfit would already do the job of one of those.But to run at a regular 80 tonnes with the real thing (two full size semi trailer road train) would also probably be ok with a 600 motor or even less with the right gearing and at a maximum of 90 kmh here that would’nt be difficult with a typical heavy haulage unit.But your argument is based on the fact that it’s obviously more benfeficial for the contractor and the sub contractor than it is for the driver.But in the case of an owner driver that argument go’s out of the window because he is the sub contractor/truck owner and it’s driver and if he does’nt want the aggro of running around with a truck then he’d get a job driving a cab or sitting in an office.But I’d give backing a proper two trailer road train a go as it does’nt seem to be much different to a proper drawbar to me.That’s why I said that b doubles licence does’nt teach you much.But using a road train as a local town delivery wagon seems to defeat the object to me and it’s probably those jobs which they leave to the Brits while the Ozzies take all the proper jobs running them out on the road. 
But it is possible to reverse a proper triple roadtrain although it looks like sometimes even the Ozzies bottle out 
Carryfast, there is no argument, just two senile old pillocks thinking that the law will change just so one can live their dream of driving some obsolete piece of crap through Europe and beyond because he talked himself out of working in the International game when he was younger, oh and a bloke who wears a silly hat. 
My eyesight is fine and even with a well designed A frame trailer that can still run under the 4 metre height limit and a double manned truck operating from the East of Nurnberg will be able to carry a 120 cubic metres 25 tonne load from London to Budapest whilst your overweight double drive Scammell Handyman is impounded in Belgium.
I am not so besotted by rail transport but do realise that an efficient Inter-modal system is worth investing in.
Wheel Nut:
Carryfast, there is no argument, just two senile old pillocks thinking that the law will change just so one can live their dream of driving some obsolete piece of crap through Europe and beyond because he talked himself out of working in the International game when he was younger, oh and a bloke who wears a silly hat.My eyesight is fine and even with a well designed A frame trailer that can still run under the 4 metre height limit and a double manned truck operating from the East of Nurnberg will be able to carry a 120 cubic metres 25 tonne load from London to Budapest whilst your overweight double drive Scammell Handyman is impounded in Belgium.
I am not so besotted by rail transport but do realise that an efficient Inter-modal system is worth investing in.
It’s not the 4 M height limit that they’ve both got a problem with.It’s the overall weight and length limits which are going to get the thing impounded before it’s even got as far as Dover let alone Calais or Belgium .But one day someone like me,who can see that the road transport industry is being stitched up so that the rail freight industry can keep on playing with their train sets around Europe,will come along in government. 
Carryfast:
Wheel Nut:
Carryfast, there is no argument, just two senile old pillocks thinking that the law will change just so one can live their dream of driving some obsolete piece of crap through Europe and beyond because he talked himself out of working in the International game when he was younger, oh and a bloke who wears a silly hat.My eyesight is fine and even with a well designed A frame trailer that can still run under the 4 metre height limit and a double manned truck operating from the East of Nurnberg will be able to carry a 120 cubic metres 25 tonne load from London to Budapest whilst your overweight double drive Scammell Handyman is impounded in Belgium.
I am not so besotted by rail transport but do realise that an efficient Inter-modal system is worth investing in.
It’s not the 4 M height limit that they’ve both got a problem with.It’s the overall weight and length limits which are going to get the thing impounded before it’s even got as far as Dover let alone Calais or Belgium
I thought the Monster Raving Loony party had lost their way a bit. Are you Roger Bastable?
But actually when I read the Manifesto, there are some very good ideas
- Refusing to sign up to the euro, but inviting the rest of Europe to join the pound.
- Drivers can go straight over a roundabout when there’s no traffic coming “to make driving through Milton Keynes more fun”.
- Traffic cops “too stupid” for normal police work to be retrained as vicars.
- Withdrawal of MPs’ £118,000 expenses allowance, and the money “in future be distributed to the poor and needy so that they can waste it instead.”
- Any MP whose constituency sells off a school playing field for development will be required to relinquish their own back garden as a replacement sports facility for the school.
- All motorways to become massive cycle tracks instead
- All speed cameras will be abolished and replaced by a new device fitted to cars which will automatically slow down to the speed limit when driven though an infra-red beam.
- The introduction of a 99p coin to “save on change”.
Wheel Nut:
Carryfast:
Wheel Nut:
Carryfast, there is no argument, just two senile old pillocks thinking that the law will change just so one can live their dream of driving some obsolete piece of crap through Europe and beyond because he talked himself out of working in the International game when he was younger, oh and a bloke who wears a silly hat.My eyesight is fine and even with a well designed A frame trailer that can still run under the 4 metre height limit and a double manned truck operating from the East of Nurnberg will be able to carry a 120 cubic metres 25 tonne load from London to Budapest whilst your overweight double drive Scammell Handyman is impounded in Belgium.
I am not so besotted by rail transport but do realise that an efficient Inter-modal system is worth investing in.
It’s not the 4 M height limit that they’ve both got a problem with.It’s the overall weight and length limits which are going to get the thing impounded before it’s even got as far as Dover let alone Calais or Belgium
I thought the Monster Raving Loony party had lost their way a bit. Are you Roger Bastable?
But actually when I read the Manifesto, there are some very good ideas
- Refusing to sign up to the euro, but inviting the rest of Europe to join the pound.
- Drivers can go straight over a roundabout when there’s no traffic coming “to make driving through Milton Keynes more fun”.
- Traffic cops “too stupid” for normal police work to be retrained as vicars.
- Withdrawal of MPs’ £118,000 expenses allowance, and the money “in future be distributed to the poor and needy so that they can waste it instead.”
- Any MP whose constituency sells off a school playing field for development will be required to relinquish their own back garden as a replacement sports facility for the school.
- All motorways to become massive cycle tracks instead
- All speed cameras will be abolished and replaced by a new device fitted to cars which will automatically slow down to the speed limit when driven though an infra-red beam.
- The introduction of a 99p coin to “save on change”.
Numbers 2,3, 4,and 5 seem ok to me but with the exception of number 1 (because there’s no difference they’re worth the same) the rest is just sheer madness But I also could’nt see anything there about allowing 80 tonner road trains to run on long distance continental work either so they won’t be getting my vote.But it’s obvious that they’re anti road and probably pro rail which seems the right party for that lot then.
newmercman:
just look at the size of the trailer numbers on the front of his trailers, they fill up the whole headboard, now that’s the kind of thing you would do in temper after a couple of drivers got the wrong trailer, it’s kind of like ‘this is trailer 509 you kin idiot’ to me.At least you can stand at the other end of the yard and read the number on a wet night
Carryfast you just don’t get it, if they allowed the types of trucks pulling the yypes of weights you wanted across Europe. The drivers aren’t going to benefit. We have had a B Double driver already post that he only get another 2 cents a km for driving one. East European operations will invest in the kit borrowing against contracts that they get at the lowest rate to re-equip with the kit. quickly pricing those British owner drivers, who went and bought that second hand high power motor, out of the market.
Despite all your belief that rail freight is taking work from road hauliers the fact is only 8% of freight is moved by train in Europe and it’s share of freight movements has been in decline for years. Compare this to about 40% for the US and it’s market share has increased over the Years.
So B doubles aren’t going to be helping road haulage companies compete with rail, because rail freight hardly competes with road freight as it is, instead it will be another way of reducing costs at the expense of the drivers wages and jobs.
muckles:
Carryfast you just don’t get it, if they allowed the types of trucks pulling the yypes of weights you wanted across Europe. The drivers aren’t going to benefit. We have had a B Double driver already post that he only get another 2 cents a km for driving one. East European operations will invest in the kit borrowing against contracts that they get at the lowest rate to re-equip with the kit. quickly pricing those British owner drivers, who went and bought that second hand high power motor, out of the market.Despite all your belief that rail freight is taking work from road hauliers the fact is only 8% of freight is moved by train in Europe and it’s share of freight movements has been in decline for years. Compare this to about 40% for the US and it’s market share has increased over the Years.
So B doubles aren’t going to be helping road haulage companies compete with rail, because rail freight hardly competes with road freight as it is, instead it will be another way of reducing costs at the expense of the drivers wages and jobs.
But could his employer remain in business if he was’nt running with the efficiency of doubles outfits?.Why did’nt he just tell the guvnor no thanks and just stay with the single outfit licence if he does’nt think that he’s getting a fair deal?.He might be getting only 2 cents a km more but how much does the guvnor also get for his cut?..If he was an owner driver he’d earn more.But the b doubles won’t earn as much or pay as much as a real doubles roadtrain outfit.If the rail freight figures were true then rail freight would’nt be putting up the argument against bigger trucks which it is doing at present and that 8% figure is’nt based on long distance journeys.If bigger trucks mean lower wages then why bother with a class 1/ C+E licence?.But it should only be those owner drivers who are up for the challenge who should have the right to judge wether or not it would make them more competitive against the East European fleets.As someone who’d be up for that challenge I’d say bring it on what have we got to lose and who says that those East European fleets are going to invest in all that different equipment when there’s no evidence that British owner drivers could’nt do the job for less doing an operation which would’nt suit a fleet employed driver type operation.On continental work there are’nt many,if any, British drivers jobs to reduce and it’s the change in the costs to revenue ratio,provided by hauling two trailers at once over long distances, which would help create British owner driver jobs on continental work and would probably pay better wages than you’d earn on UK work as an employed driver.The only losers would be East European operators and drivers and rail freight operators and drivers if not then nothing would have changed.It seems that you’re looking at what would probably turn out to be a profitable owner driver continental operation from the perspective of an employed uk driver.
i think after reading pages of discussion carryfast wants to be able to run 2 trailers around europe as an owner driver but thinks he’ll be one of the few to be doing it but surely if he makes any money somebody else will jump on the bandwagon. i’m afraid your idea might be a good one but you can’t expect to have uk only twin trailer outfits able to run around europe without everybody else able to do so as well.
Whoever or whatever Carryfast is or does, please go out with a 4x2 unit and a triaxle trailer, hire it if you like and come back in 3 months time and tell us how many customers offered you treble the money if you can carry treble the payload.
You are living in a parallel universe.
Either grow up or act your age
this is very true, you couldnt apply to tenders expecting to make double or triple your single trailer price, theyre in the business of making money as well and theyll know that youre only using one truck, one driver, and not much more diesel so they will try and screw you down on price.
and carryfast, you want to try backing a double roadtrain, just consider its got 5 pivot points, id love to see someone do it youd be quicker to drop the second dolly and come back for it.
most of the road trains run a combination of Bdouble setups combined with dollies, its better for stability and for getting around
Carryfast you are on drugs mate
Carryfast you are on drugs mate
Carryfast you are on drugs mate. Reversing roattrains sending willi betz skint what next a bigger fanclub than eddie stobart.
beattun:
this is very true, you couldnt apply to tenders expecting to make double or triple your single trailer price, theyre in the business of making money as well and theyll know that youre only using one truck, one driver, and not much more diesel so they will try and screw you down on price.and carryfast, you want to try backing a double roadtrain, just consider its got 5 pivot points, id love to see someone do it youd be quicker to drop the second dolly and come back for it.
most of the road trains run a combination of Bdouble setups combined with dollies, its better for stability and for getting around
I did’nt have any intention of trying to get exactly twice the rate to haul two trailers than one.But like those Ozzy guvnors and drivers have known for years you’ll earn more for hauling two than one and more for hauling three than two and so on but the costs don’t rise pro rata with the extra revenue.It looks like you need some more of those lessons about combinations if you think that a double road train has 5 pivot points.It’s just a drawbar artic combination with actually 3 points of articulation.It’s the triple roadtrain that’s got 5.But if you can reverse a proper rigid/trailer drawbar outfit properly then that doubles roadtrain is’nt much different it’s just a bit/lot longer and you’d need the opposite steering inputs to those which you’d need for the ordinary drawbar outfit to put the second trailer where it’s got to go.A triple would either mean that the impossible takes a bit (lot) longer or to be sensible just drop the third one and then uncouple the unit and then just put the third one on the bank.But I’ve often had a good laugh in the past watching drivers who can’t even reverse an ordinary rigid/trailer drawbar outfit when they have to drop it and then put it on the bank using the front of the prime mover 
But there’s plenty of real roadtrains running over there and they’ve been doing it for years without having to resort to mixing proper dolly outfits with b doubles.
Did he run over the bloke with the gas bottles?