Why do lorry drivers put up with low pay

chicane:
Are you seriously saying an experienced driver with C+E & DCPC is only worth and extra 20p/h?

Why the hell would anyone spend the better part of 3k of their own money for that?

To turn this on its head, why would a logisticski company who just need to put 1000 bums on their customers seats want to pay £12/15 an hour for the top tray skilled desirable drivers of proven worth, when they’ve dumbed the job down to the lowest achievable level, and in most cases the min wage most inexperienced person can do the job every bit as well as the most, computerised lorry that only needs steering, no goods handling (look at the moaning here about having to strap the load inside a curtain sider), nothing to do other than start the lorry put in drive and steer it, the company can remotely watch the driver to see if they are doing anything wrong, cheerio to the worse offenders.

This is what maddens me, short sighted drivers wanted this, as is so often the case they voted for their own demise.
Working people have allowed themselves to be brainwashed, rich people (govt and their lackeys) told them that proper unions are not needed, hence look at the difference between lorry and train drivers

Train unions didn’t allow their job to be demeaned, they kept it skilled, and by full union membership supporting aid union kept their conditions.

Young men in this country are paying the £3k and getting the licence, because thanks to successive governments policies (starting with Thatcher) we have lost almost all our manufacturing and engineering base, and have legion of frustrated young men with no other future apart from drink drugs and criminality.

What the hell are strapping you men doing selling tellys and washing machines or flipping burgers or sat on their arses with a headphone glued to their shell likes in a bloody call centre, these are not jobs for men.

You can’t have failed to notice the sea change in the attitudes of the young driver, when i was young the majority of young drivers got into lorries because they wanted to, it was a chosen life for themselves me included, many but not all young drivers now are there because there is nothing else for them.

Now throw limitless (and it is unless we leave the EU) EU immigration into the mix, countries that are now in worse straits than even us, their millions of young men have a chance to move to Britain and earn up to 5 times the money they could earn at home, they’d have to be bonkers not to come and i have no argument with them whatsoever.

A good driver is worth their money, and its far in excess of the figures being spoken of here, indeed in many cases they have found those jobs and are looking after them because good drivers are seldom idiots and keeping schtum because they don’t the job to be spoiled by others.

The thing is those good jobs usually require some specialised skills, and/or the better companies want the best for their money so are very particuar about recruitment, most of the good jobs go by recomendation, or by face to face application, they are seldom if ever advertised for these days legislation has made recruiting a dangerous game for good employers.

I asked a friend of mine this question the other day, having read through the thread again. (He isn’t a member on here btw, he doesn’t ‘do’ the internet!). He’s been a driver for nearly forty years.

His answer was simple.

‘…because 95% of them are thick ■■■■■ that don’t know any better.’

I argued against this but he was adamant. I have a lot of respect for the bloke as he has done everything just about in the haulage game, but I thought his comment a little ‘generalised’ shall we say?

What’s the view on this comment? Is he just being a ■■■■, or are we being stupid not kicking off more? Could solidarity ever pay off? :question:

Truckulent:
I asked a friend of mine this question the other day, having read through the thread again. (He isn’t a member on here btw, he doesn’t ‘do’ the internet!). He’s been a driver for nearly forty years.

His answer was simple.

‘…because 95% of them are thick [zb] that don’t know any better.’

I argued against this but he was adamant. I have a lot of respect for the bloke as he has done everything just about in the haulage game, but I thought his comment a little ‘generalised’ shall we say?

What’s the view on this comment? Is he just being a ■■■■, or are we being stupid not kicking off more? Could solidarity ever pay off? :question:

Put it this way, i’ve had some good jobs in the game, and luckily (and it was luck) i’ve got another.

A common thread runs through each and every one incl the present, those jobs were unionised, not in the Red Robbo style but by the union members generally doing their best to make the job work, both for the company and therefore themselves.

A union is not one man, the members with their (hopefully) well chosen steward ARE the union.

Just a comment about people leaving the job.

When I started as a driver, it was because it looked like an okay job and the money wasn’t bad. Once I had started, I found that the main attraction for me was the independance. Once out of the yard or factory gate, I was on my own - solving problems and getting the job done. I decided what time to start and finish, and on one job, I mostly worked a four day week but got paid for five. We always knew where the Ministry were waiting and made sure that the logbooks were up-to-date.

When I went back to it in the 90s it was not all that different. OK, we had RDCs, but I am pretty good at doing nothing, and being paid for five hours sleeping outside Asda Portbury or Safeways Aylesford was fine by me. The new trucks were fun compared to the crap I started out on - power steering - WOW! Auto gearboxes - Fantastic. (Yes I am a lazy git)

I spent my last few years working for a pretty laid back company. Yes they wanted us to keep to the rules, but they paid for breaks and never queried a reasonable timesheet. I still got afternoons sleeping in saltley waiting for a load. Now it has gone OTT. Strapping cornflakes? Accounting for every minute? (My accountant sister used to do that but her time was charged out at £250 an hour.)

I worked on past my 65th so as to enhance my state pension. I already had another one, so was quids in. I now get over £10k a year from that which isn’t bad for a couple of years investment, especially since I plan to draw it for 30 years at least.

In short - if I was nearing or past retirement age, but still working, the DPC would certainly have been the last straw for me.

No idea, Who wants to be messed around all your life by school leavers who don’t knw the first thing about Truck driving only to be payed £7-8for the responsibility of carrying 100,000’s of kit around. It actually winds me up as these swine are on big money have regularly cleaned office,s company cars and then have the nerve to treat drivers like dogcrap.

This is why I have a fulltime job yes it is not fun (work is not fun) but it is a regular wage holiday pay and discounts. I can only assume the magority of drivers around this area put up with anything that is thrown at them I personally would rather earn an average wage than do something I enjoy.

bob96:
No idea, Who wants to be messed around all your life by school leavers who don’t knw the first thing about Truck driving only to be payed £7-8for the responsibility of carrying 100,000’s of kit around. It actually winds me up as these swine are on big money have regularly cleaned office,s company cars and then have the nerve to treat drivers like dogcrap.

This is why I have a fulltime job yes it is not fun (work is not fun) but it is a regular wage holiday pay and discounts. I can only assume the magority of drivers around this area put up with anything that is thrown at them I personally would rather earn an average wage than do something I enjoy.

Just sit on m1 for 3 hrs in accident delay,that normally gets the spotty kid planning the job back,I never saw any matrix signs warning me of 3 hr delays :wink: :stuck_out_tongue: :sunglasses: :laughing:
N.b not something I’d contemplate though .

Why do lorry drivers put up with low pay

I don’t. Did 53 hours last week (13.5 on break) and cleared £624. Happy days :grimacing:

Terry T:

Why do lorry drivers put up with low pay

I don’t. Did 53 hours last week (13.5 on break) and cleared £624. Happy days :grimacing:

Just for clarity, did that include night out money? Was it working nights/weekends? Spell it out for us.

Terry T:

Why do lorry drivers put up with low pay

I don’t. Did 53 hours last week (13.5 on break) and cleared £624. Happy days :grimacing:

Thought these special drivers,with these once in a lifetime jobs,earning mega- bucks kept it all to themselves just in case some rag- tag low paid steering wheel attendant turned up and ruined it for them :exclamation: :exclamation: :exclamation:

Truckulent:
Is he just being a ■■■■, or are we being stupid not kicking off more? Could solidarity ever pay off? :question:

no he’s not being a ■■■■! :laughing: I’d say it’s 99% :grimacing: :grimacing: :grimacing: :grimacing: :grimacing: :grimacing: :grimacing: :grimacing: :grimacing: yes solidarity would pay off, :wink: but there’s too many yellow bellies about CARVING the job up! :imp: :open_mouth: :unamused:

Juddian:

chicane:
Are you seriously saying an experienced driver with C+E & DCPC is only worth and extra 20p/h?

Why the hell would anyone spend the better part of 3k of their own money for that?

To turn this on its head, why would a logisticski company who just need to put 1000 bums on their customers seats want to pay £12/15 an hour for the top tray skilled desirable drivers of proven worth, when they’ve dumbed the job down to the lowest achievable level, and in most cases the min wage most inexperienced person can do the job every bit as well as the most, computerised lorry that only needs steering, no goods handling (look at the moaning here about having to strap the load inside a curtain sider), nothing to do other than start the lorry put in drive and steer it, the company can remotely watch the driver to see if they are doing anything wrong, cheerio to the worse offenders.

This is what maddens me, short sighted drivers wanted this, as is so often the case they voted for their own demise.
Working people have allowed themselves to be brainwashed, rich people (govt and their lackeys) told them that proper unions are not needed, hence look at the difference between lorry and train drivers

Train unions didn’t allow their job to be demeaned, they kept it skilled, and by full union membership supporting aid union kept their conditions.

Young men in this country are paying the £3k and getting the licence, because thanks to successive governments policies (starting with Thatcher) we have lost almost all our manufacturing and engineering base, and have legion of frustrated young men with no other future apart from drink drugs and criminality.

What the hell are strapping you men doing selling tellys and washing machines or flipping burgers or sat on their arses with a headphone glued to their shell likes in a bloody call centre, these are not jobs for men.

You can’t have failed to notice the sea change in the attitudes of the young driver, when i was young the majority of young drivers got into lorries because they wanted to, it was a chosen life for themselves me included, many but not all young drivers now are there because there is nothing else for them.

Now throw limitless (and it is unless we leave the EU) EU immigration into the mix, countries that are now in worse straits than even us, their millions of young men have a chance to move to Britain and earn up to 5 times the money they could earn at home, they’d have to be bonkers not to come and i have no argument with them whatsoever.

A good driver is worth their money, and its far in excess of the figures being spoken of here, indeed in many cases they have found those jobs and are looking after them because good drivers are seldom idiots and keeping schtum because they don’t the job to be spoiled by others.

The thing is those good jobs usually require some specialised skills, and/or the better companies want the best for their money so are very particuar about recruitment, most of the good jobs go by recomendation, or by face to face application, they are seldom if ever advertised for these days legislation has made recruiting a dangerous game for good employers.

Hi Juddian, I’m not sure if I’m reading your post right, but are you saying the only reason we got autos, curtainsiders, night heaters (modernity) etc is because we asked for them? Seriously, in all my 37 years I’ve struggled to get a new pair off sodding gloves without signing in triplicate and explaining why my old ones only lasted 6 months!
Anyway. We are where we are, and to face the facts there are jobs with Moffits, Hiabs, ropes and sheets , steel haulage etc which ought to attract a higher wage but doesn’t. (I won’t do steel, even with plenty of experience because it’s the same rate as RDC work). Then there’s the easy stuff…RDC work etc. I can’t fathom why in general, all driving work has to be the same rate.
I’ve told the agency I’ll be happy to do steel work. The rate will be£15p.h.
They have never felt like taking me up on it, preferring to put me on easy stuff that anybody could do. So here I am…trunking! In an autobox limo!!

Truckulent:
I asked a friend of mine this question the other day, having read through the thread again. (He isn’t a member on here btw, he doesn’t ‘do’ the internet!). He’s been a driver for nearly forty years.

His answer was simple.

‘…because 95% of them are thick [zb] that don’t know any better.’

I argued against this but he was adamant. I have a lot of respect for the bloke as he has done everything just about in the haulage game, but I thought his comment a little ‘generalised’ shall we say?

What’s the view on this comment? Is he just being a ■■■■, or are we being stupid not kicking off more? Could solidarity ever pay off? :question:

Your friend has hit the nail fully on the head. Most drivers are all zip and no trousers, I’ve done this, I’ve done that, I get 8 nights out per week and get paid for 12, if they give me that run again I’m going to rip their heads off and ■■■■ down their necks. Look at my scania v8 and my rigger boots, don’t you wish you were me?

Watch drivers closely and all will be revealed.

DrivingMissDaisy:

Terry T:

Why do lorry drivers put up with low pay

I don’t. Did 53 hours last week (13.5 on break) and cleared £624. Happy days :grimacing:

Just for clarity, did that include night out money? Was it working nights/weekends? Spell it out for us.

No, no and no.

I get a basic rate with time and half after 8 hours and another few quid after 6pm. I did 53.5 hours, 27.25 of which were after 6pm. Afternoons basically and in my own bed every night.

Thought these special drivers,with these once in a lifetime jobs,earning mega- bucks kept it all to themselves just in case some rag- tag low paid steering wheel attendant turned up and ruined it for them :exclamation: :exclamation: :exclamation:

I’m not special. I am however fairly motivated to maximise my earning potential so have always tried to steer myself into well paid jobs, even before I was a driver and have always voted with my feet if I’ve not been happy. I kept my nose to the ground for the decent jobs and persisted with my current employer long enough for them to give me a chance. I suggest you do the same if Stobbies aren’t doing it for you.

supply and demand trouble is now if you wont do a certain job theres a long line of people who will along the way ive seen a few things truck defected by me only to be taken out by another agency driver the long hours …i think nowadays union this union that isnt worth anything…agencys seem to forget without drivers there nothing but sadly on and on it goes.

i started do my training years ago thinking decent wage looking in papers at proper employers advertising jobs but myself and others i trained with have either left to go do other jobs or the idea of hgv driving was a good wage long gone…but i still plan to get my class 1 as its always a job thats there…and i refuse to go on the dole

i think unless the agencys are brought to task the hualage industry will just keep getting worse some of the pay rates are shocking but as above if you dont do it somebody else will…ive never been a fan of agencys yes they find you work but the way your treated when you start saying no to them ■■■■■■ me off the uncertainty of a wage the shocking amount of times you turn up somewhere be told totally different to what agency told you on phone…and to be honest every job now is agency when you open paper the tin ternet

i just turn up do my bit go home.as for the cpc my view is what next down the line…its quite sad the way its going the money it costs now to train maintain your licence just doesnt support what you get in return ie a decent standard of living…

slightly off topic and maybe personal i myself at the moment and last 2 years am a carer living off £60 aweek due to my mum who went into hospital aged 79 with water infections but out came unable to walk carrier of cdiff stick thin and i quote a neighbour "good lord its like something out of the ■■■■ death camps and we find she has dementia which i wouldnt wish on anybody …yet a care home want £100 aday(700aweek)…theres going be a time when i will have to return to work…so each week im putting a £5 away do my class one.

You raise a point that has yet to be made, the agency…

Wages are, in general, not very good, we’ve established that, yet every driver who works for an agency is giving somebody upwards of 10% of their wages every shift that they do :cry:

They are nothing but a bunch of parasites and they’ve done more damage to the industry than anything else I can think of :imp:

Transport companies will base their wages on what they going rate for a job is, if they see drivers pulling shifts for ■■ per hour for an agency, well guess what they’re going to offer a driver :bulb:

Instead of going on strike, you should boycott agencies, then all the money they’re taking out of the pot can go back in, drivers will get a full week’s wages instead of the odd shift here and there too :bulb:

The agency is the biggest enemy the lorry driver faces :unamused:

The idea of agencies ‘could’ be turned back against both the employers and the agencies by the unions evolving into agencies themselves in the form of workers’ co operatives.However for that to work the workers would first have to get back to the idea of unions being their only hope.Which still leaves the problem of cheap imported labour,with lower standards of living expectations,in the form of immigration and or cheap foreign operators.

Carryfast:
The idea of agencies ‘could’ be turned back against both the employers and the agencies by the unions evolving into agencies themselves in the form of workers’ co operatives.However for that to work the workers would first have to get back to the idea of unions being their only hope.Which still leaves the problem of cheap imported labour,with lower standards of living expectations,in the form of immigration and or cheap foreign operators.

Unless…they joined the union too :bulb:

Carryfast:
The idea of agencies ‘could’ be turned back against both the employers and the agencies by the unions evolving into agencies themselves in the form of workers’ co operatives.However for that to work the workers would first have to get back to the idea of unions being their only hope.Which still leaves the problem of cheap imported labour,with lower standards of living expectations,in the form of immigration and or cheap foreign operators.

I already thought about starting one of those up. That is a agency that is a cooperative that is developed for the drivers and employers benefit. There are clear problems in its makeup. However rationalisation by the members would have to be accepted in its development.

miketaurus:
I already thought about starting one of those up. That is a agency that is a cooperative that is developed for the drivers and employers benefit. There are clear problems in its makeup. However rationalisation by the members would have to be accepted in its development.

But you would still have to charge an employer more than you paid a driver. You would have phone bills, an office, business rates to pay, as well as wages for the person running it. And then surely you would simply running another agency?

miketaurus:

Carryfast:
The idea of agencies ‘could’ be turned back against both the employers and the agencies by the unions evolving into agencies themselves in the form of workers’ co operatives.However for that to work the workers would first have to get back to the idea of unions being their only hope.Which still leaves the problem of cheap imported labour,with lower standards of living expectations,in the form of immigration and or cheap foreign operators.

I already thought about starting one of those up. That is a agency that is a cooperative that is developed for the drivers and employers benefit. There are clear problems in its makeup. However rationalisation by the members would have to be accepted in its development.

You’ll never be in a situation where the economic interests of the employees will also be in the economic interests of the employers.At least so long as the employers see wage levels as a variable cost that can be shifted downwards to increase ‘competitiveness’ ( profit margins ) and that fact is the main reason why the UK economy is where it is today.