Harry Monk:
miketaurus:
I already thought about starting one of those up. That is a agency that is a cooperative that is developed for the drivers and employers benefit. There are clear problems in its makeup. However rationalisation by the members would have to be accepted in its development.
But you would still have to charge an employer more than you paid a driver. You would have phone bills, an office, business rates to pay, as well as wages for the person running it. And then surely you would simply running another agency?
Not exactly because agencies aren’t just in business to cover their overheads.Unlike a workers’ co operative would be.Which would just be there to employ it’s members at a wage they set not the employer and not to make a profit.IE the plan is to take the ability to set wage rates away from the employers and give it to the workers instead.Thereby removing the ability of employers to regard wages as a variable cost.Thereby removing the ability of employers to use wage cutting as a way to increase profit margins 
Carryfast:
Harry Monk:
miketaurus:
I already thought about starting one of those up. That is a agency that is a cooperative that is developed for the drivers and employers benefit. There are clear problems in its makeup. However rationalisation by the members would have to be accepted in its development.
But you would still have to charge an employer more than you paid a driver. You would have phone bills, an office, business rates to pay, as well as wages for the person running it. And then surely you would simply running another agency?
Not exactly because agencies aren’t just in business to cover their overheads.Unlike a workers’ co operative would be.Which would just be there to employ it’s members at a wage they set not the employer and not to make a profit.IE the plan is to take the ability to set wage rates away from the employers and give it to the workers instead.Thereby removing the ability of employers to regard wages as a variable cost.Thereby removing the ability of employers to use wage cutting as a way to increase profit margins
So in essence you would be creating a union…
newmercman:
Carryfast:
Harry Monk:
miketaurus:
I already thought about starting one of those up. That is a agency that is a cooperative that is developed for the drivers and employers benefit. There are clear problems in its makeup. However rationalisation by the members would have to be accepted in its development.
But you would still have to charge an employer more than you paid a driver. You would have phone bills, an office, business rates to pay, as well as wages for the person running it. And then surely you would simply running another agency?
Not exactly because agencies aren’t just in business to cover their overheads.Unlike a workers’ co operative would be.Which would just be there to employ it’s members at a wage they set not the employer and not to make a profit.IE the plan is to take the ability to set wage rates away from the employers and give it to the workers instead.Thereby removing the ability of employers to regard wages as a variable cost.Thereby removing the ability of employers to use wage cutting as a way to increase profit margins
So in essence you would be creating a union…
Not exactly because unions as we know them don’t actually employ their own members or therefore actually set wage rates like agencies do.It would also remove the excuse of employers being able to play the militant union holding employers to ransom card.It would transform the worker/employer relationship into the same type of commercial one as any other agency/employer one.In which case if the customer won’t pay the rate then they don’t get the job done.With no chance for the CBI or government to start shouting about a socialist takeover.
newmercman:
Carryfast:
Harry Monk:
miketaurus:
I already thought about starting one of those up. That is a agency that is a cooperative that is developed for the drivers and employers benefit. There are clear problems in its makeup. However rationalisation by the members would have to be accepted in its development.
But you would still have to charge an employer more than you paid a driver. You would have phone bills, an office, business rates to pay, as well as wages for the person running it. And then surely you would simply running another agency?
Not exactly because agencies aren’t just in business to cover their overheads.Unlike a workers’ co operative would be.Which would just be there to employ it’s members at a wage they set not the employer and not to make a profit.IE the plan is to take the ability to set wage rates away from the employers and give it to the workers instead.Thereby removing the ability of employers to regard wages as a variable cost.Thereby removing the ability of employers to use wage cutting as a way to increase profit margins
So in essence you would be creating a union…
One of the main objectives is to give drivers a voice and identity that they are actually included in the whole company. The idea around professionalism and image that you guys often debate. Companies I think will use the idea even if it is more per hour because the company is set up to meet their demands around offsetting damage and costs. Yes it gives the driver more control over wage rates.
miketaurus:
newmercman:
Carryfast:
Harry Monk:
miketaurus:
I already thought about starting one of those up. That is a agency that is a cooperative that is developed for the drivers and employers benefit. There are clear problems in its makeup. However rationalisation by the members would have to be accepted in its development.
But you would still have to charge an employer more than you paid a driver. You would have phone bills, an office, business rates to pay, as well as wages for the person running it. And then surely you would simply running another agency?
Not exactly because agencies aren’t just in business to cover their overheads.Unlike a workers’ co operative would be.Which would just be there to employ it’s members at a wage they set not the employer and not to make a profit.IE the plan is to take the ability to set wage rates away from the employers and give it to the workers instead.Thereby removing the ability of employers to regard wages as a variable cost.Thereby removing the ability of employers to use wage cutting as a way to increase profit margins
So in essence you would be creating a union…
One of the main objectives is to give drivers a voice and identity that they are actually included in the whole company. The idea around professionalism and image that you guys often debate. Companies I think will use the idea even if it is more per hour because the company is set up to meet their demands around offsetting damage and costs. Yes it gives the driver more control over wage rates.
I agree with it in principle, in fact I’ve been a one man union/cooperative my whole working life 
Let me give you an example… I have a good friend who is a Maternity nurse did a course and they had to complete a task of building something out of given materials. They completed the task. Then they were given a task again but each had been given a disability of some kind. They completed the task. The Instructor said that the 2nd task had never been completed before!! So why…the rationalisation was this-: The previous groups from other professionals was mixed between men and women. The Men were assorted some Alpha males who tried to dominate and some women competing in their own way also the others were ignored. The fact that the all women team achieved the tasks was that they were developed were used to doing the same thing and knew that using their skills collectively would achieve the goal.
Saaamon:
robroy:
Reubs766:
PaulNowak:
Dear OP. If the money is that bad, go do something else
I agree.
Yeh right! I mean what is the o/p thinking about, who does he think he is, showing a modicum of self respect. and daring to question the fact that we could be paid better for what we do, unlike a lot today that are happy to take any old crap rate willingly because they are… happy with their “hobby type” job so what does it matter what it pays, so he should keep his gob shut and be thankful I say.
FFS!! 
Is driving a lorry really worth more than 7quid an hour?
Well I would say yes, but I reckon if the opinion that you stated is typical of most drivers I would reckon the chances of an increase lay somewhere between minimal and zero …reckon it depends how much you value yourself and your personal level of self value , the opinion that you give suggests that you are in a “I know my place” situation, where as I am not.
newmercman:
So as you (& others) have mentioned, do you really think DCPC will take drivers out of the industry 
I know there will be a lot saying they will, but is that just typical lorry driver ■■■■■■■■
What will this exodus of drivers do for a living
A small survey. 66% of my mates who are C+E drivers have done no DCPC nor do they have any intention of doing it if it comes out of their pocket.
So if that is the truth and not just them giving it the Charlie Big Potatoes routine, what are they all going to do for a living?
newmercman:
So if that is the truth and not just them giving it the Charlie Big Potatoes routine, what are they all going to do for a living?
Both have retrained. One as a photographer, an extension of a long standing hobby. He’s still been doing some driving and will probably do some until September but has absolutely no intention of paying out for this trash posing as training and with his current level of bookings says he won’t need it. The other is now a qualified gas engineer, Mon-Fri, 8=4 recently got a start with a large company basic around £25k van provided and starts from home.
I wonder if sometimes there’s a tendency to over estimate what other professions earn. I know in the field I’m in there’s always this talk that Doctors and people in the city are all loaded and have it cushy.
Just for sense of comparison and honesty and not at all to be crass talking figures. I left driving in 2003. I was a tramper and I took home £1200-1300 a month. When I eventually joined a regional airline flying a 78 seat turboprop I took home £1200 a month the first year including disruption payments and duty pay including for night stops (night out money). By year 3 I took home 1700 a month. I then moved onto an Embraer 118 seat jet and the pay was more like 2000-2200 a month in hand. About that time the powerful BALPA union took the company to task for freezing wages for last 3 years citing the recession, despite awarding rises to management of 7 pc. Pay went up then to about 2800 take home. Fast forward few years later airline downsizing, laid off went to work as a contractor on the 747 for a foreign airline. Now work for 286 US dollars a day based out of Saudi Arabia (236 plus 50 per diem). Do a month away from home then 2 weeks off. Only get paid when at work not at home. Also airine sends us home with a days notice when they don’t need us (unpaid). It’s pretty low what you’re left with, I had more in my hand over the year 6 years ago. There’s a flying version of trucknet and they’re all moaning about the job now in a post.
One thing that aways suprised me that was raised earlier in the thread. It seems to still be common practice to not be paid hourly for a night out in the driving world. In flying you get paid for a night away, it’s part of your contracted duty hours. You also get a per diem (night out money if you like for food) as you are at work and can’t do what you want with your life. You’re there at their behest. I don’t think the train drivers are on 60 plus as a salary, maybe with overtime and disruption for the East Coast mainline. I think it’s more like 30-40 - edit: just seen the post on should have been a train driver. I was wrong!
Some of my happiest times were when I was driving. I have given it serious thought to changing career. Either going back driving or trying something totally new like the Police
Most adults have a UK driving license (albeit with mixed ability). Many non HGV drivers are able to tow and reverse, such as caravanners, boat owners, farm workers, construction site employees etc. So where does that leave the skill set to earn top whack? More so if your driving skill set consists purely of putting a trailer onto a bay.
Drivers wages have always been made up of long hours, allowances for the inconvenience of being away from home etc, rather than for any perceived skill. True most owners are delighted if you bring the truck back in one piece every day, but have little real interest if you have had a day of endless hassles both on the roads and when dealing with stroppy customers.
For slightly less money than being a HGV driver, you could be a fabricator welder. Mauling heavy metalwork around, spending your day inside a stifling mask, breathing in harmful fumes and occasionally setting yourself alight. No I am not a fabricator welder, just pointing out that there are worse jobs for worse money out there.
LIBERTY_GUY:
Most adults have a UK driving license (albeit with mixed ability). Many non HGV drivers are able to tow and reverse, such as caravanners, boat owners, farm workers, construction site employees etc. So where does that leave the skill set to earn top whack? More so if your driving skill set consists purely of putting a trailer onto a bay.
.
That is one of if not THE reason for relatively low wages, the fact is that technology has taken virtually all the skills that were once needed to drive a truck. I am not saying that you once had to be on par with a scientist or surgeon in terms of intelligence or ability, but the fact is a lot of guys could not hack it.
I have known at least 5 in my time that I can remember,( so no doubt there have been hundreds more) when trucks were not so …technical. A couple of guys that could not master a crash or even semi crash box, one that could not physically handle a non power steering ERF unit, one that could not rope or sheet, and even one poor sod that had a nervous breakdown and burst into tears when he got lost in Birmingham and had to reverse away from a low bridge, he backed into a car caused mayhem and had to be picked up and taken home.
All this would not apply today as we have technology in modern trucks, Auto boxes, power steering, sat navs etc, and who can put 3 sheets on a trailer and rope it up without straps nowadays.
I’m not calling for a return to the old days as compared to then the job today is ■■■■-easy, (but less enjoyable ) but because of improvements the job has been dumbed down to the fact that ANYBODY can (and does) learn to drive a truck, and the ones that once would be unsuitable in terms of skill and general common sense, and basic grey matter can now get through the net, so hence the job now attracts a lot of ■■■■ whits, we all meet them every day, the ones that despite the fact that they hold a Class1 (or whatever the hell they call it now) they will never be drivers as long as they have holes in their arses.
Put this with the stars that treat the job like a hobby, so are willing to drive a fancy motor for next to ■■■■ all , and face up to it that we are always going to be in this situation, as there is absolutely NO NEED to pay a good wage for the ridiculous hours we put in, as there will always be an endless supply of both drivers and …“drivers”
Spot on Robroy.
Note the difference between us and the train workers, they stuck together within their unions all these years, never allowed their jobs to be dumbed down, and now reap the benefits.
Thing is, maybe a young squaddy could be trained to drive a train to cover during a dispute (going by reports here of squaddies observing road fuel tanker deliveries), but if the signals/engineers/trackside staff staff won’t play ball the bloody train isn’t going anywhere.
All my life lorry drivers have been at each others throats, whether vying for the new lorry or undercutting or grassing or whatever, divided we are always ruled.
Juddian:
Spot on Robroy.
Note the difference between us and the train workers, they stuck together within their unions all these years, never allowed their jobs to be dumbed down, and now reap the benefits.
Thing is, maybe a young squaddy could be trained to drive a train to cover during a dispute (going by reports here of squaddies observing road fuel tanker deliveries), but if the signals/engineers/trackside staff staff won’t play ball the bloody train isn’t going anywhere.
All my life lorry drivers have been at each others throats, whether vying for the new lorry or undercutting or grassing or whatever, divided we are always ruled.
With train and tube drivers, they all work for the same company, IE, C2C, virgin, TFL, etc etc. And therefor have more power by sticking together.
I’m a london bus driver, there are about 10 different companies in london running the buses, therefor we have no real power when it comes to wages.
Sadly, it’s the whole point of privatisation.
dozy:
waddy640:
I will be 15 months off 65 in September so why would I other to do the dcpc. My mortgage is paid off and I have some savings. I achieved this by not driving a lorry for a living and as has been said why would the younger ones want to bother with the training, the long hours etc?
One thought, if you complete the dcpc and then do the next five modules, what do you cover in those if it has all been covered with the first five?
I’m younger than you,house paid for ,savings, and I’ve done that on truck driving wages,surely your not suggesting you can’t save on truck driving wages,afford too buy a house.
It probably depends on where you live and the availability of suitable work. If those factors don’t match your needs then it is a no-no in my book.
I started driving trucks in 1963 the basic pay has always been low simply because it was always a job with plenty of overtime 70hrs a week was about the norm then it was very hard work,everything handball and then roping and sheeting not much fun in the snow and wet and a motor with no heater to me 2things killed the job artics and sleeper cabs on the rigids you had to load travel tip before you could do the next job could spend 3days waiting to unload at the docks on the wagon-drag you had to have 2people on them by law so we swapped and changed till we matched up with someone you enjoyed working with find good digs learn the good ones book ahead good meal clean bed out to the pub with the other guys who stayed there have a laugh back to digs cup of tea sandwich, bed. Up next morning cooked breakfast carry on it was a social life on the job nowadays you see guys parked up in lay byes curtain drawn at 8pm ready to start 3am etc no body talks to each other no life at all just a metal box to sleep in I packed up at 70years of age because I was told due to the economy instead of £8 per hr and £12per hr after 8hrs we where to be paid £8across the board so £8 per hr flat Money sat/Sunday I lost about £400 per month and refused to work weekends I am lucky I live on my own don’t have wife and kids to worry about …there are some good jobs I know the guys atShell terminalEllsmere port are on £42 ooo a year but for most it’s a pittance being a easy job now is no excuse for low wages you are driving a truck that cost a fortune and quite often expensive loads what you have to realise most driving jobs now will stay low paid no union left to talk of as we all know some drivers will drive for nothing just give them a big motor and off they go. Me? I was very happy driving a old Foden/Leyland/ Atkinson earned good money had a really happy life on the road including Europe and met some wonderful characters being a character now will get you the sack it was a tough life back in the day but would not have changed it for today’s working environment I only finished 12months ago I don’t miss the driving I miss the old days of the docks ,digs and the guys I knew
for being a CHARACTER! 