PaulNowak:
Dear OP. If the money is that bad, go do something else
I agree.
Reubs766:
PaulNowak:
Dear OP. If the money is that bad, go do something elseI agree.
At what point would you two consider you weren’t getting sufficient remuneration?
chicane:
Fair enough to a point but the carers are funded by social services which in turn are funded by the tax-payer and tax revenues are finite.
My girlfriend works in care. The last place she worked at charged up to £800 per week for a patient depending on their level of disability and the care they needed. The home actually preferred patients with extreme brain damage and disability as they made more money out of them. The carers are all on NMW even on weekends. The owners all drive flash cars and live in a mansion of a house.
Some people are getting rich off the care system but it sure as hell isn’t the carers.
Reubs766:
PaulNowak:
Dear OP. If the money is that bad, go do something elseI agree.
Yeh right! I mean what is the o/p thinking about, who does he think he is, showing a modicum of self respect. and daring to question the fact that we could be paid better for what we do, unlike a lot today that are happy to take any old crap rate willingly because they are… happy with their “hobby type” job so what does it matter what it pays, so he should keep his gob shut and be thankful I say.
FFS!! 
newmercman:
I hear that, a good example of Fordism, there was not much in the way of exports from the US in those days, yet (or possibly because of that) the economy was thriving.There was a huge feel good factor, although the war in Vietnam was dragging on, but industry was being propped up by the war, just as it had after WW2, with the building of the interstate network thanks to Eisenhower’s plan to link all the military bases together.
So when you look back on those times of prosperity, what was the catalyst?
War, which is what seems to drive America’s economy as it is one of the things they are very good at, computers are another, most of that comes from military use and filters down to retail, look at GPS and wireless communications, they all started off with a military application and then went mainstream, but apart from that, what else do they excel at?
As in all cases war actually costs more money than it puts into the economy and Vietnam was no different.The US economy of the 1960’s was actually a case of ballistic economic growth ‘despite’ the costs of the Vietnam War not because the war was helping that growth.IE any money earn’t by workers in the defence industry for war production is money that’s been paid in taxes by the wealth creating non military sectors of the economy.That also includes all the taxes paid by those workers in the defence industry.Which means that the defence industry is a net loss to the economy.The fact is the money was coming from what America has always excelled at in the form of being able to make good quality products from refrigerators to cars and being able to make lots of them.While the more money that people like Hoffa could get for the workers the more refrigerators and cars those manufacturers could sell.The more workers were needed to make them and the more wages those workers could earn.Rinse and repeat.
The question being why would people like Nixon,Reagan,Wilson,Heath,Callaghan and Thatcher want to throw a spanner in the works of that and who gained from them doing so.Bearing in mind that Nixon and Reagan were the only two presidents in US history at that point to want any involvement with the Chinese Communist Party. 
Chicane, I did an article on rate increases and the cost in real terms it would have on the products we haul around, in almost all cases it’s fractions of a penny, but firms like Coca Cola (as an example) have massive purchasing power and their goal is not to make fizzy drinks, the exist only to make money for their shareholders (banks, hedge funds etc) they want to make as much money as they possibly can. Shortsightedness on their part as if they paid a bit more out, more people could afford their product, but that’s corporate greed for you
You also mention low price commodities, like hay, I often quote to move wood, paper or other low value products and sometimes the rate I want is worth more than the product, but so what, if still costs the same to drag it down the road, why should the transport industry subsidise the wood/paper/ whatever industry?
newmercman:
Chicane, I did an article on rate increases and the cost in real terms it would have on the products we haul around, in almost all cases it’s fractions of a penny, but firms like Coca Cola (as an example) have massive purchasing power and their goal is not to make fizzy drinks, the exist only to make money for their shareholders (banks, hedge funds etc) they want to make as much money as they possibly can. Shortsightedness on their part as if they paid a bit more out, more people could afford their product, but that’s corporate greed for youYou also mention low price commodities, like hay, I often quote to move wood, paper or other low value products and sometimes the rate I want is worth more than the product, but so what, if still costs the same to drag it down the road, why should the transport industry subsidise the wood/paper/ whatever industry?
Exactly.
Unfortunately the skill of joined up or strategic thinking has all but disappeared from Government and industry leaders, none can see past the next interim dividend or election.
So as you (& others) have mentioned, do you really think DCPC will take drivers out of the industry 
I know there will be a lot saying they will, but is that just typical lorry driver ■■■■■■■■
What will this exodus of drivers do for a living
newmercman:
Chicane, I did an article on rate increases and the cost in real terms it would have on the products we haul around, in almost all cases it’s fractions of a penny, but firms like Coca Cola (as an example) have massive purchasing power and their goal is not to make fizzy drinks, the exist only to make money for their shareholders (banks, hedge funds etc) they want to make as much money as they possibly can. Shortsightedness on their part as if they paid a bit more out, more people could afford their product, but that’s corporate greed for youYou also mention low price commodities, like hay, I often quote to move wood, paper or other low value products and sometimes the rate I want is worth more than the product, but so what, if still costs the same to drag it down the road, why should the transport industry subsidise the wood/paper/ whatever industry?
The transport industry has been a charity for years. That is one of the reasons it is in the state it is. People seem to be obsessed with doing work that costs them money when the idea is to make money.
It is unlikely it will ever change as it hasn’t in the last forty years.
My last word on the matter as a second generation Mod (45) : youtube.com/watch?v=k5HfOipwvts&feature=kp
Keep singing and dancing, life is too short. Above all be happy.
robroy:
Reubs766:
PaulNowak:
Dear OP. If the money is that bad, go do something elseI agree.
Yeh right! I mean what is the o/p thinking about, who does he think he is, showing a modicum of self respect. and daring to question the fact that we could be paid better for what we do, unlike a lot today that are happy to take any old crap rate willingly because they are… happy with their “hobby type” job so what does it matter what it pays, so he should keep his gob shut and be thankful I say.
FFS!!
Is driving a lorry really worth more than 7quid an hour?
Depends on your X’s my friend (although I said it was my last word on the matter) If you have a family to keep and want a future for them and yourself…I would say no…in respect of your own health and well being. Although I hazard a guess you have already done the maths. £30,000 a year is great money…if you work 65 plus hours a week and live in a tin box with nowhere to take a ■■■■…well others may have a different take on the matter.
My views;
STANDARD hourly (reasonable ) rate/ day/night
Experience/Training/knowledge all taken in to account
If it means a shortfall in a shareholder dividend so be it. Militant; no…
Lets be frank about this…most commute to work…shafted again…
There will always be exceptions to the rule in this; newmercman, living the dream, great I am pleased for him . He is in the top 10% I would say. Set his stall out and good luck to him. YOU and I on the other hand …well truly dig deep and ask yourself…not kid yourself.
Change…or get out as many say…why should you have to? Fight for a decent standard of living for the hours YOU give over to any employee. If that’s Militant send me off to Russia.
One thing I have always done is bargain from a position of strength, usually that means whilst still employed, that way you can be a bit picky.
Geography helped me too, my area had jobs in abundance and once you get a reputation and get to know other drivers, you always know a driver on any of the local firms and that’s usually enough to get through the door.
I haven’t been around for the last few years, so I’m out of the loop as such, but I know enough people to mean that I wouldn’t have much trouble finding a decent job if I needed one, I’m pretty confident of that.
I think the chances of getting better pay and conditions, i.e. shorter hours are non existent now. I gave up full time hgv driving in 1978 when I couldn’t earn enough to support my family.
It was a decision I hated making but financially it was the best one.
newmercman:
So as you (& others) have mentioned, do you really think DCPC will take drivers out of the industryI know there will be a lot saying they will, but is that just typical lorry driver ■■■■■■■■
What will this exodus of drivers do for a living
There’s 3 of us from the same agency been in the same place full time for most of the last year, the other 2 will be retiring in Sept and speaking to other drivers from other depots its the same story, they simply don’t see the point in doing the DCPC and medicals &etc., given the average age of drivers I think this is where the losses will come from, there simply aren’t enough new drivers coming into the industry even allowing for the EEs. I think the industry has been relying too long on old stagers that have raised their kids/paid their mortgage and are in a position and have the work ethic to work long hours for fackall, the (to them) unnecessary hassle, cost and insult of the DCPC has simply made them decide to jack it in.
chicane:
newmercman:
So as you (& others) have mentioned, do you really think DCPC will take drivers out of the industryI know there will be a lot saying they will, but is that just typical lorry driver ■■■■■■■■
What will this exodus of drivers do for a living
There’s 3 of us from the same agency been in the same place full time for most of the last year, the other 2 will be retiring in Sept and speaking to other drivers from other depots its the same story, they simply don’t see the point in doing the DCPC and medicals &etc., given the average age of drivers I think this is where the losses will come from, there simply aren’t enough new drivers coming into the industry even allowing for the EEs. I think the industry has been relying too long on old stagers that have raised their kids/paid their mortgage and are in a position and have the work ethic to work long hours for fackall, the (to them) unnecessary hassle, cost and insult of the DCPC has simply made them decide to jack it in.
The problem here is complex now, unlike the job itself which is no longer physically hard, or requiring any form of skill, but has gained lots of costly legal hoops to jump through.
The blokes you work with presumably are of pensionable age, and are now either doing the job for something to do, or to either subsidise a poor pension for better living standards or to pay high rents because they failed to buy a home when they should have.
For those in the latter group they might be just as well off to retire completely and get as much benefits as they can, for those financially solvent but doing the job as a paying hobby then i suspect boredom will soon have them back with DCPC card when ‘the wife’ has them DIYing.
For those not of retiring age, then the reality of a security hut on min wage 12 hour shifts will soon lose its appeal, B&Q can’t soak up all the retirees in their stores.
Either way bum on seat supply isn’t going to be a problem, there’s thousands more foreigners out there, language is no longer a problem for the typical driver as in too many cases at the few RDC’s its been my misfortune to visit a series of grunts seems to be the standard form of communication from behind the desk anyway, not all the same it must be said.
Skill again is of no consequence, as drivers wanted easy and they got it, any bloody fule can aim a modern lorry up the road there is no skill required any more, for most jobs its been dumbed out, a half wit could eventually manage to get it on a supermarket loading dock and a chimp could fasten 4 twist locks, and all humans on the planet can sit their arse in a waiting room drinking nats ■■■■ for 4 hours whilst someone else unloads and checks the load.
There is no magic solution to this, and its going to continue getting worse because working people continue, turkey like, to vote for their own destruction, you’ll see the same result next year in the general election, the turkeys will again return the labcon party and yet again they’ll be wondering why things carry on down the same road.
There’s millions of young men in the poorer countries of the EU who haven’t got a hope in hell of a future, do you think they won’t be beating a path here if there’s jobs going at anything up to 4 or 5 or more times their home wages, we’d be doing exactly the same if it was the other way round.
Juddian I as I see it you hit the nail on the head in the second paragraph, the industry is reliant on those retirement age drivers doing it as a hobby or to top up their pension, just have look round any canteen, RDC. Take those drivers out of the equation and there is a serious hole in the number and skill level of drivers.
As to the pay rate, even in this low pay rural backwater I could walk into £7.20 an hour tomorrow. The minimum wage is going up to £6.50/h and the aim is for £7/h by 2016.
Are you seriously saying an experienced driver with C+E & DCPC is only worth and extra 20p/h?
Why the hell would anyone spend the better part of 3k of their own money for that?
I will be 15 months off 65 in September so why would I other to do the dcpc. My mortgage is paid off and I have some savings. I achieved this by not driving a lorry for a living and as has been said why would the younger ones want to bother with the training, the long hours etc?
One thought, if you complete the dcpc and then do the next five modules, what do you cover in those if it has all been covered with the first five?
waddy640:
I will be 15 months off 65 in September so why would I other to do the dcpc. My mortgage is paid off and I have some savings. I achieved this by not driving a lorry for a living and as has been said why would the younger ones want to bother with the training, the long hours etc?One thought, if you complete the dcpc and then do the next five modules, what do you cover in those if it has all been covered with the first five?
I’m younger than you,house paid for ,savings, and I’ve done that on truck driving wages,surely your not suggesting you can’t save on truck driving wages,afford too buy a house.