Carryfast:
Orys please state exactly where the conditions for income support say that EU nationals aren’t eligible to claim it unless they’ve been working here for more than 2 years
Carryfast, I did it for you in the past already, use search engine, I have better things to do than research a facts for you that you will then ignore, as they don’t fit into your vision of the word.
The fact is, that you are not entitled for contribution based JSA, and for income based, you are in theory entitled, but since you need some INCOME history, that person new to the UK don’t have, for obvious reasons, there is no chance you got one.
In my case, when I was injured after the accident, it was calculated that I am entitled to 0GBP of income based JSA, so yes, if that make you happy, that’s true, in theory Poles can get it. It’s just simply impossible to get any money that way it if you are new to the country. I did not get it when I really needed it and I never heard that anyone Polish or Czech under 24 months in UK got one. And I do have loads of Polish and Czech friends, and I read Polish forums etc.
Hutpik: don’t be silly. If there were indeed loads of experienced British truck drivers looking for the job, as some here claim it was the case, there would be no chance that I won the case accusing them for discrimination for that they did not employed inexperienced me And it would be enough for them to offer me one shift per day to keep them safe, don’t you think?
Blimey make your mind up either you’re entitled to it or you’re not.You can’t be only ‘theortetically’ entitled to any of our benfits.The fact is there is nothing in the rules which state that EU nationals aren’t entitled to Income Support or housing benefit without having been here for 2 years.
If you’re right about the issue of no British drivers looking for a job then there would obviously be no British drivers claiming JSA.
Carryfast:
Blimey make your mind up either you’re entitled to it or you’re not.You can’t be only ‘theortetically’ entitled to any of our benfits.The fact is there is nothing in the rules which state that EU nationals aren’t entitled to Income Support or housing benefit without having been here for 2 years.
Well, I thought that the issue is with 1000s of Poles who come here just to claim benefits and how big burden it is to UK’s budget. In that case, no matter if it’s theoretically possible or not, since they cannot in real life get them, UK does not pays a penny to them.
If you’re right about the issue of no British drivers looking for a job then there would obviously be no British drivers claiming JSA.
Obviously they weren’t seeking jobs hard enough, if a foreigner with crap language and virtually no experience in two weeks from his arrival found more work than he was able to handle…
hutpik:
Ok Orys.It must have been your charming personality that won them over.Mike
Flattering, thank you. But I would humbly stick to my version - that in 2007 in Glasgow there was so much work around, that everyone willing to work could get some without any problems.
robinhood_1984:
A hand full of British drivers going to Canada is hardly the same as hundreds of thousands of Polish, Romanian or Bulgarian drivers moving en-mass to a country with already high unemployment and enough drivers as it is. In order for myself and the rest of us on here who are now in Canada to actually get here we had to jump through all sorts of hoops to get a work permit and then permanent residence and the companies we worked for had to provide evidence that we were not taking the job of a local. Not hard to do really when most companies in this area that have 50 trucks have at least 8-12 of them standing empty at any one time with no one to drive them. Not the same case in England by the look of things on here with many of you complaining about a complete lack of jobs and when there are jobs, they pay very low wages.
Canada or Australia would never simply open their doors and give a whole country the right to reside there over night, they make each and every immigrant demonstrate his eligability to do the job, only after the company who wants to employ him has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that they couldn’t find a Canadian to do the job. Hundreds of thousands of British people are out of work, goodness knows how many truck drivers currently are, so what happens next? We open the borders obviously because its the same thing as maybe 500 or 1000 Britishd rivers moving to Canada over the past 5 years, well no its not, thats a drop in the ocean compared to what we saw post 2004 when Poland joined the EU and there is no reason to believe the same wont happen again with Romania and Bulgaria as they live in much worse poverty than the Poles and they have a massively larger Roma population who is desperate to leave their shanty camps at the first opertunity. Infact while driving down the interstate just this week there was a report on the BBC World Service about roma gypsies in the UK and how they’re already crying foul of discrimination. What suprised me most of all is that a town such as Rotherham already has 3000 of them according to their report! There wont be a single town in all of Canada with 3000 British people in outside of perhaps Toronto with its several million, let alone a town the size of Rotherham.
Lived in Greece! for one year then Italy for three years after that - came home just under a year ago.
In both countries you needed a residency permit.
Before these were issued you were interviewed and amongst other things you had to provide proof of medical insurance! and also proof that you had independant means. In Italy we had to provide bank statements etc and we were told that we would not be eligible for any assistance from the state.
In both countries you were not allowed to purchase a motor vehicle of any kind, although you could of course use UK reg one. Also in Italy you could not have a mobile phone from an Italian network.
There were other things that you really needed a permit to have but I can’t bring them to mind right now.
And don’t think for a minute you going to pop along to an agency or job centre - they simply don’t exist, certainly where we lived in the south. All jobs, from what we saw, were filled by family members - both countries were happy for us to live there as long as we didn’t clog up the hospitals or take local jobs.
This is why everybody wants to come to the UK - it’s just debatable whether all these folks turning up is a good thing.
Possibly not. People come here and disappear - in Italy it is quite common on intercity trains for armed police to check passports and also at random on platforms etc.
This isn’t some impoverished state - Italy is the seventh biggest economy in the world, or were before the euro crisis.
There are people arriving on our shores taking the mickey out of us, whether its getting free operations in hospital or getting child benefit sent to their country of origin.
I am sure that I will incur the wrath of some on here but so be it.
Carryfast:
Blimey make your mind up either you’re entitled to it or you’re not.You can’t be only ‘theortetically’ entitled to any of our benfits.The fact is there is nothing in the rules which state that EU nationals aren’t entitled to Income Support or housing benefit without having been here for 2 years.
Well, I thought that the issue is with 1000s of Poles who come here just to claim benefits and how big burden it is to UK’s budget. In that case, no matter if it’s theoretically possible or not, since they cannot in real life get them, UK does not pays a penny to them.
Orys it’s not theoretical it’s fact East European EU immigrant workers have the same rights as us to income support benefits.Maybe you’re mistaking the situation as it was before 2011 for A8 and 2012 for A2 nationals.
Carryfast:
Orys it’s not theoretical it’s fact East European EU immigrant workers have the same rights as us to income support benefits.Maybe you’re mistaking the situation as it was before 2011 for A8 and 2012 for A2 nationals.
Yeah, exactly, as I told you. So now theoretically we have chance to get these benefits, but to get INCOME based benefit, you have to be able to prove your income. Someone who comes here cannot prove either that he was a resident here (because he wasn’t) or his income (as he had no income in UK).
Good thing is that we no longer have to pay 90 pounds for WRS, and that might be some burden for UK budget, as all this 1000s of Poles that were going back and forward and had to start their WRS procedure every time they arrived here, were pouring a significant sums to the budget
The situation pre 2011 was that everyone is equal in UK, but French national in UK was more equal than Czech national Now the equality is real, which does not changes much as newcomers are unable to get any benefits, no matter if they are from Poland, or from France, as someone here on truckned was recently writing about his French partner who came here and was unable to get anything.
Carryfast:
Orys it’s not theoretical it’s fact East European EU immigrant workers have the same rights as us to income support benefits.Maybe you’re mistaking the situation as it was before 2011 for A8 and 2012 for A2 nationals.
Yeah, exactly, as I told you. So now theoretically we have chance to get these benefits, but to get INCOME based benefit, you have to be able to prove your income. Someone who comes here cannot prove either that he was a resident here (because he wasn’t) or his income (as he had no income in UK).
Good thing is that we no longer have to pay 90 pounds for WRS, and that might be some burden for UK budget, as all this 1000s of Poles that were going back and forward and had to start their WRS procedure every time they arrived here, were pouring a significant sums to the budget
The situation pre 2011 was that everyone is equal in UK, but French national in UK was more equal than Czech national Now the equality is real, which does not changes much as newcomers are unable to get any benefits, no matter if they are from Poland, or from France, as someone here on truckned was recently writing about his French partner who came here and was unable to get anything.
Which part of the same rights as we have don’t you understand.Income Support based jobseekers is based on savings not income because they don’t pay jobseekers to anyone who isn’t unemployed and anyone who is unemployed doesn’t have an income.All you need to prove is that you’re unemployed and that you don’t have savings above the qualifying level.Which means that anyone from the A8 or A2 countries can come here and walk into the Job Centre at Dover and sign on the Jobseekers register and claim income based jobseekers and housing benefit.Whereas a British worker who’s paid in for years can’t get it because their ‘savings’ are above the required amount.
In just the same way that it’s possible to pay into the state pension scheme for years and still not qualify for the state pension because those contributions don’t reach the required threshold for whatever reason.In which case we don’t get those contributions back.
Carryfast:
Which means that anyone from the A8 or A2 countries can come here and walk into the Job Centre at Dover and sign on the Jobseekers register and claim income based jobseekers and housing benefit.
…and hear “can we see your income from your last tax year, as it seems we don’t have your tax report in our database… So we don’t know how much you were earning, how much savings you have etc. And we need that information to estimate how much you are entitled to… Oh, you don’t have any of these, because you weren’t living in UK? Bugger off then.”.
Carryfast:
Which means that anyone from the A8 or A2 countries can come here and walk into the Job Centre at Dover and sign on the Jobseekers register and claim income based jobseekers and housing benefit.
…and hear “can we see your income from your last tax year, as it seems we don’t have your tax report in our database… So we don’t know how much you were earning, how much savings you have etc. And we need that information to estimate how much you are entitled to… Oh, you don’t have any of these, because you weren’t living in UK? Bugger off then.”.
You are boring, I am off.
For the umpteenth time they don’t give a zb how much the claimant ‘was’ earning in the case of a claim for income support.The only thing that matters is how much savings the claimant has and wether the claimant is actively seeking work.They don’t need that information to ‘estimate how much th claimant is entitled to’ they just need it to decide wether the claimant qualifies or not.In this case the most likely scenario is loads of people from the A8 or A2 decide to get out of their zb lives in wherever and make their way here by the cheapest method of transport possible.Then turn up on the doorstep of the nearest Job Centre with their hands out asking for whatever benefits they can get.Their inevitable resulting desperate search for work,for whatever rate of pay they can get,being exactly what the British employers want and are looking for.
robinhood_1984:
A hand full of British drivers going to Canada is hardly the same as hundreds of thousands of Polish, Romanian or Bulgarian drivers moving en-mass to a country with already high unemployment and enough drivers as it is. In order for myself and the rest of us on here who are now in Canada to actually get here we had to jump through all sorts of hoops to get a work permit and then permanent residence and the companies we worked for had to provide evidence that we were not taking the job of a local. Not hard to do really when most companies in this area that have 50 trucks have at least 8-12 of them standing empty at any one time with no one to drive them. Not the same case in England by the look of things on here with many of you complaining about a complete lack of jobs and when there are jobs, they pay very low wages.
Canada or Australia would never simply open their doors and give a whole country the right to reside there over night, they make each and every immigrant demonstrate his eligability to do the job, only after the company who wants to employ him has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that they couldn’t find a Canadian to do the job. Hundreds of thousands of British people are out of work, goodness knows how many truck drivers currently are, so what happens next? We open the borders obviously because its the same thing as maybe 500 or 1000 Britishd rivers moving to Canada over the past 5 years, well no its not, thats a drop in the ocean compared to what we saw post 2004 when Poland joined the EU and there is no reason to believe the same wont happen again with Romania and Bulgaria as they live in much worse poverty than the Poles and they have a massively larger Roma population who is desperate to leave their shanty camps at the first opertunity. Infact while driving down the interstate just this week there was a report on the BBC World Service about roma gypsies in the UK and how they’re already crying foul of discrimination. What suprised me most of all is that a town such as Rotherham already has 3000 of them according to their report! There wont be a single town in all of Canada with 3000 British people in outside of perhaps Toronto with its several million, let alone a town the size of Rotherham.
‘…[E]mpire’ … Oz, New Zealand Canada … British … ‘commonwealth’ … British … colonies … ‘commonwealth’ … EU … Germany in WW2…’
Exactly: WW2was a Whole World War - but the whole world has moved on except for ex-communist EU ‘leaders’ and (too liberal) Lib-Lab-Con soft-heads who undemocratically co-erce Britain with EU diktats to anaesthetise our brains - which is where many of us now feel the UK is dangerously at.
No wonder there is so much disaffection dragging down too many lives in Britain these days
Unification of peaceful endeavour now thankfully dominates Europe: Let’s move on as unified Britons - whilst being gratefully content that nasty, European 1930’s dictators are dead: Let’s add Britain’s expensive membership of the the EU to the list
Conditions now exist for the UK to resume Independence from being enslaved to the EU’s undemoctratic, federal inappropriacy with it’s unelected, morale and moral diluting penchant of vomitting economic migrants amongst us - and inevitably our industry - when the nation is as sensitive as it is now.
‘…[E]mpire’ … Oz, New Zealand Canada … British … ‘commonwealth’ … British … colonies … ‘commonwealth’ … EU … Germany in WW2…’
Exactly: WW2was a Whole World War - but the whole world has moved on except for ex-communist EU ‘leaders’ and (too liberal) Lib-Lab-Con soft-heads who undemocratically co-erce Britain with EU diktats to anaesthetise our brains - which is where many of us now feel the UK is dangerously at.
No wonder there is so much disaffection dragging down too many lives in Britain these days
Unification of peaceful endeavour now thankfully dominates Europe: Let’s move on as unified Britons - whilst being gratefully content that nasty, European 1930’s dictators are dead: Let’s add Britain’s expensive membership of the the EU to the list
Conditions now exist for the UK to resume Independence from being enslaved to the EU’s undemoctratic, federal inappropriacy with it’s unelected, morale and moral diluting penchant of vomitting economic migrants amongst us - and inevitably our industry - when the nation is as sensitive as it is now.
But the difference is that ‘some’ of us haven’t been brainwashed into thinking that zb’s like Farage will make the slightest difference to the issues being discussed here.Being that he’s a raving Thatcherite who’ll be all for the demands of big business not for the interests of the average indigenous Brit worker.The fact is we’ve been here before with previous so called ‘commonwealth’ immigration policies which were just the same and based on the same cheap labour for big business employers motives long before we joined the EU and the demand for imported immigrant labour by those tossers,helped by their cronies in government like Farage and Thatcher amongst others,won’t go away just because we decide to ( rightly ) get out of the EU.
As for unification based on being zb scared of a 1930’s dictator and his German followers we’ve got Heath to thank for that and then Thatcher who,no surprise supported and kept up his ideas of being in the EU.No doubt with the intention of not only continuing to keep the Germans happy but also the Russians and all the other commy slavic east european states that were part of the eastern bloc.All with the intention of making the Russians richer as well as the Germans and yet more cheap labour opportunities for her big business cronies.No surprise that Farage doesn’t seem so keen on the truth of how we came to be ‘where we are’ now.
alamcculloch:
What does HTH mean?Harold Wilson tried to get us into the Common Market as it then was IIRC.
It was Heath who took Britain into the Common Market/EEC as a reaction to being zb scared what Germany might do again in the future if German workers ever found themselves not earning as much as they’d like.Then Wilson,Callaghan,and Thatcher were all part of the yes campaign during the referendum which Wilson called.I’m speaking from the point of view of the Labour Party no campaign at the time.Specifically as one of Shore’s supporters as opposed to the rest of the idiots in the Labour Party government/s and opposition at the time and since.
There is a member who has a place out there think he does a few months there and a few here.
Can’t blame them I’m sure lots of us would if we was in there boat but the system ■■■■■
kr79:
There is a member who has a place out there think he does a few months there and a few here.
Can’t blame them I’m sure lots of us would if we was in there boat but the system ■■■■■
Thats it. Its not the fault of the Bulgarian worker who moves to Britain or the Bulgarian firm who undercuts the UK firm. Its entirely the fault of the politicians who sign this in to law and make it possible for our societies to be so undermined by cheaper outside economies that we can not possibly compete with.
And it would be enough for them to offer me one shift per day to keep them safe, don’t you think?
