Geoffo:
To move to Belgium you must first have work…
I don’t think you are right… There is a freedom of movement in EU…
You will not be able to claim dole or any other money until you’ve worked a specific amount of time… Unless you’re an asylum seeker …
Look, it’s JUST like in Britain - you have to work here for 24 months to be able to claim dole
Yes Orys there Is free movement within Europe, but the system here makes It difficult…
Firstly you’d need to have a ’ Foreigners work card’ ( this Is given to all non- Belgians who want to come & live here), but to get one of these you’d need an address… To be able to live anywhere here you’d need money for rent… To get the money you’d need a job… Can’t get a job unless you’ve got a Foreigners work card etc,etc…, but there Is an easier way… For example, A Polish driver works for a Belgian company while he’s still living In Poland…
He then decides to move here, no problem because he’s already In the system, because he’s working for a Belgian company… Housing would not be a problem, because he’s working here & would be able to show wage slips to future landlords, thus giving him an address for a workers card…
Cannot claim any benefits here for the first 2 years…
It’s a bit long winded,but I hope It makes sense…
Why would anyone from an EU country be subject to different rules than Belgians would.
Carryfast:
Exactly what .Don’t see anything there which says that immigrants from an EU country intending to live and work here on a permanent basis aren’t eligible for income support based benefits before working here for at least 2 years.The way I read it they’re entitled to the same benfits as anyone else here subject to the usual conditions.
Exactly that:
If you have come to live in the United Kingdom (UK) from a foreign country, you
may be able to get Income Support. However, what you get will depend on your
residence or immigration status or, if you are from certain European countries,
your nationality.
Polish nationals are “from certain European countries” and therefore under WRS and other separate regulations, meaning that the cannot claim any non-working benefits for the first 24 months.
Geoffo:
Firstly you’d need to have a ’ Foreign workers residense card’ ( this Is given to all non- Belgians who want to come & live here. This card also allows you to reside here), but to get one of these you’d need an address… To be able to live anywhere here you’d need money for rent… To get the money you’d need a job… Can’t get a job unless you’ve got a Foreign workers residense card etc,etc…, but there Is an easier way… For example, A Polish driver works for a Belgian company while he’s still living In Poland (yes It Is possible to work for A Belgian company while living elsewhere In Europe)…
He then decides to move here, no problem because he’s already In the system, because he’s working for a Belgian company… Housing would not be a problem, because he’s working here & would be able to show wage slips to future landlords, thus giving him an address for a workers residence card…
Cannot claim any benefits here for the first 2 years…
It’s a bit long winded,but I hope It makes sense…
But you can just go there to look for the job under general rules. You can have your jobseekers from your own country transferred to there and have it paid by the Belgian equivalent of job centre. I don’t know the particulars, but I know that this is general rule within EU, and that it’s what one Italian friend of my friend recently did: she used to live in UK for 10 years or so, now she moved to Belgium, taking her UK jobseekers allowance with her.
Carryfast:
Exactly what .Don’t see anything there which says that immigrants from an EU country intending to live and work here on a permanent basis aren’t eligible for income support based benefits before working here for at least 2 years.The way I read it they’re entitled to the same benfits as anyone else here subject to the usual conditions.
Exactly that:
If you have come to live in the United Kingdom (UK) from a foreign country, you
may be able to get Income Support. However, what you get will depend on your
residence or immigration status or, if you are from certain European countries,
your nationality.
Polish nationals are “from certain European countries” and therefore under WRS and other separate regulations, meaning that the cannot claim any non-working benefits for the first 24 months.
Geoffo:
Firstly you’d need to have a ’ Foreign workers residense card’ ( this Is given to all non- Belgians who want to come & live here. This card also allows you to reside here), but to get one of these you’d need an address… To be able to live anywhere here you’d need money for rent… To get the money you’d need a job… Can’t get a job unless you’ve got a Foreign workers residense card etc,etc…, but there Is an easier way… For example, A Polish driver works for a Belgian company while he’s still living In Poland (yes It Is possible to work for A Belgian company while living elsewhere In Europe)…
He then decides to move here, no problem because he’s already In the system, because he’s working for a Belgian company… Housing would not be a problem, because he’s working here & would be able to show wage slips to future landlords, thus giving him an address for a workers residence card…
Cannot claim any benefits here for the first 2 years…
It’s a bit long winded,but I hope It makes sense…
But you can just go there to look for the job under general rules. You can have your jobseekers from your own country transferred to there and have it paid by the Belgian equivalent of job centre. I don’t know the particulars, but I know that this is general rule within EU, and that it’s what one Italian friend of my friend recently did: she used to live in UK for 10 years or so, now she moved to Belgium, taking her UK jobseekers allowance with her.
[/quote]
Yes Orys this Is also correct, because the Belgian state takes the money out of your country first before It pays you… So in affect you wouldn’t be claiming ‘Belgian money’ , just what you’d be entitled to back In your home country…
Carryfast:
Exactly what .Don’t see anything there which says that immigrants from an EU country intending to live and work here on a permanent basis aren’t eligible for income support based benefits before working here for at least 2 years.The way I read it they’re entitled to the same benfits as anyone else here subject to the usual conditions.
Exactly that:
If you have come to live in the United Kingdom (UK) from a foreign country, you
may be able to get Income Support. However, what you get will depend on your
residence or immigration status or, if you are from certain European countries,
your nationality.
Polish nationals are “from certain European countries” and therefore under WRS and other separate regulations, meaning that the cannot claim any non-working benefits for the first 24 months.
Geoffo:
Firstly you’d need to have a ’ Foreign workers residense card’ ( this Is given to all non- Belgians who want to come & live here. This card also allows you to reside here), but to get one of these you’d need an address… To be able to live anywhere here you’d need money for rent… To get the money you’d need a job… Can’t get a job unless you’ve got a Foreign workers residense card etc,etc…, but there Is an easier way… For example, A Polish driver works for a Belgian company while he’s still living In Poland (yes It Is possible to work for A Belgian company while living elsewhere In Europe)…
He then decides to move here, no problem because he’s already In the system, because he’s working for a Belgian company… Housing would not be a problem, because he’s working here & would be able to show wage slips to future landlords, thus giving him an address for a workers residence card…
Cannot claim any benefits here for the first 2 years…
It’s a bit long winded,but I hope It makes sense…
But you can just go there to look for the job under general rules. You can have your jobseekers from your own country transferred to there and have it paid by the Belgian equivalent of job centre. I don’t know the particulars, but I know that this is general rule within EU, and that it’s what one Italian friend of my friend recently did: she used to live in UK for 10 years or so, now she moved to Belgium, taking her UK jobseekers allowance with her.
The fact is we don’t/can’t turn anyone from an EU country away and the rules for claiming income support aren’t rocket science and don’t/can’t discriminate between EU nationals and Brits.The system that you’re describing would require work permits based on an offer of work before they can get one and different rules in regards to income support eligibility for EU nationals compared to Brits.Which isn’t the case.
Geoffo:
Yes Orys this Is also correct, because the Belgian state takes the money out of your country first before It pays you… So in affect you wouldn’t be claiming ‘Belgian money’ , just what you’d be entitled to back In your home country…
Yes, this is paneuropean rule. I could have my jobseekers from Poland taken to UK and paid here by the jobcentre for the first three months when I arrived, if it was worth the hassle
Anyway, you DO can move to Belgium if you wish, just as to any other EU country, but you simply cannot count on them supporting you for the first 24 months, just like in any other EU country, unless you “bring your own jobseekers with you”
Carryfast:
The fact is we don’t/can’t turn anyone from an EU country away and the rules for claiming income support aren’t rocket science and don’t/can’t discriminate between EU nationals and Brits.The system that you’re describing would require work permits based on an offer of work before they can get one and different rules in regards to income support eligibility for EU nationals compared to Brits.Which isn’t the case.
CF, I’ll try to explain…
If you were to move here tomorrow with nothing In your pocket, no job, nothing & went to the VDAB (our version of the jobcentres) asking for dole money & benefits (yes they deel with dole money there too), they would tell you that you are not entitled to anything because you have no address or work history In Belgium… As Ory’s said, you could have your jobseekers money transfered here…
If you found a job here & decided to move here, then you could no problem, but If you got made redundent within the first year you’d have no dole money because your work history here Is not longer than 2 years…
I’m sorry If this doesn’t seem fair, but It’s just the way It Is here…
There’s a reason why most Foreigners come to Britton, because It’s such easy pickings obviously…
Geoffo:
Yes Orys this Is also correct, because the Belgian state takes the money out of your country first before It pays you… So in affect you wouldn’t be claiming ‘Belgian money’ , just what you’d be entitled to back In your home country…
Yes, this is paneuropean rule. I could have my jobseekers from Poland taken to UK and paid here by the jobcentre for the first three months when I arrived, if it was worth the hassle
Anyway, you DO can move to Belgium if you wish, just as to any other EU country, but you simply cannot count on them supporting you for the first 24 months, just like in any other EU country, unless you “bring your own jobseekers with you”
Carryfast:
The fact is we don’t/can’t turn anyone from an EU country away and the rules for claiming income support aren’t rocket science and don’t/can’t discriminate between EU nationals and Brits.The system that you’re describing would require work permits based on an offer of work before they can get one and different rules in regards to income support eligibility for EU nationals compared to Brits.Which isn’t the case.
CF, I’ll try to explain…
If you were to move here tomorrow with nothing In your pocket, no job, nothing & went to the VDAB (our version of the jobcentres) asking for dole money & benefits (yes they deel with dole money there too), they would tell you that you are not entitled to anything because you have no address or work history In Belgium… As Ory’s said, you could have your jobseekers money transfered here…
If you found a job here & decided to move here, then you could no problem, but If you got made redundent within the first year you’d have no dole money because your work history here Is not longer than 2 years…
I’m sorry If this doesn’t seem fair, but It’s just the way It Is here…
There’s a reason why most Foreigners come to Britton, because It’s such easy pickings obviously…
That’s what I’ve been saying and what orys seems to so conveniently be missing.The difference in the case of uk is that we have a safety net which covers those who aren’t eligible for contributions based jobseekers allowance.Just as I said that net is Income Support and housing benefit and there’s no way that it can discriminate between immigrants,at least from the EU,and Brits.Which is why Calais has been full of immigrants living in transit camps wishing to get here having travelled across Europe and France without bothering,or wanting,to look for a job there instead.
All done using British workers’ tax contributions to subsidise the import of cheap labour thereby putting those British workers out of work at worse or keeping their wages lower than they should be at best.While tax contributions fall and the benefits get oversubscribed leading to calls by the government (and many of those immigrants themselves),who organised the whole scam in the first place,to call British workers lazy and cut those social security benefits which they’ve paid in for.
Geoffo:
Yes Orys this Is also correct, because the Belgian state takes the money out of your country first before It pays you… So in affect you wouldn’t be claiming ‘Belgian money’ , just what you’d be entitled to back In your home country…
Yes, this is paneuropean rule. I could have my jobseekers from Poland taken to UK and paid here by the jobcentre for the first three months when I arrived, if it was worth the hassle
Anyway, you DO can move to Belgium if you wish, just as to any other EU country, but you simply cannot count on them supporting you for the first 24 months, just like in any other EU country, unless you “bring your own jobseekers with you”
BINGO Ory’s !! We agree on something
The rules regarding income support here,as they apply to immigrants from the EU at least,say that you’re wrong and that isn’t a so called ‘paneuropean rule’.
Geoffo:
If you were to move here tomorrow with nothing In your pocket, no job, nothing & went to the VDAB (our version of the jobcentres) asking for dole money & benefits (yes they deel with dole money there too), they would tell you that you are not entitled to anything because you have no address or work history In Belgium… As Ory’s said, you could have your jobseekers money transfered here…
If you found a job here & decided to move here, then you could no problem, but If you got made redundent within the first year you’d have no dole money because your work history here Is not longer than 2 years…
I’m sorry If this doesn’t seem fair, but It’s just the way It Is here…
There’s a reason why most Foreigners come to Britton, because It’s such easy pickings obviously…
And this is where you are wrong. For Poles in Britain is EXACTLY as you described for foreigners in Belgium!
Yes, they are some kind of benefits that are added to your salary that working Pole can have here in UK, but if you don’t work, for first 24 months you got NOTHING.
Carryfast:
That’s what I’ve been saying and what orys seems to so conveniently be missing.The difference in the case of uk is that we have a safety net which covers those who aren’t eligible for contributions based jobseekers allowance
I don’t mention it, because I only mention the things that exist. And the truth is that if you are Polish and if you haven’t been working here for 24 months, you are not entitled to ANY of jobseekers, neither the contribution based or the other one. You are also not entitled to incapacity benefit, even if you worked here for 23 months and then some driver crashes into your car, making you unable to work for weeks due to injuries you got as a result of this accident - I learned it the hard way. You are not even entitled to crisis loan, which is fully repayable after you are back on track. Lucky me, I had at least medical care provided.
Geoffo:
If you were to move here tomorrow with nothing In your pocket, no job, nothing & went to the VDAB (our version of the jobcentres) asking for dole money & benefits (yes they deel with dole money there too), they would tell you that you are not entitled to anything because you have no address or work history In Belgium… As Ory’s said, you could have your jobseekers money transfered here…
If you found a job here & decided to move here, then you could no problem, but If you got made redundent within the first year you’d have no dole money because your work history here Is not longer than 2 years…
I’m sorry If this doesn’t seem fair, but It’s just the way It Is here…
There’s a reason why most Foreigners come to Britain, because It’s such easy pickings obviously…
And this is where you are wrong. For Poles in Britain is EXACTLY as you described for foreigners in Belgium!
Yes, they are some kind of benefits that are added to your salary that working Pole can have here in UK, but if you don’t work, for first 24 months you got NOTHING.
Ory’s where am I wrong as you’ve just decribed what I’ve written…
The only benefits you can have here are housing & child allowance, but you must have a job to be able to claim them…
Geoffo:
Ory’s where am I wrong as you’ve just decribed what I’ve written…
The only benefits you can have here are housing & child allowance, but you must have a job to be able to claim them…
Sorry, maybe I misunderstood you, I read you that this^ is in Belgium and in UK is easier to get the benefit and this is the reason why people go to Britain. If you think that, you are wrong, as Britain for foreigners (at least to them from “new” EU) has the same rules as the ones you describe Belgium has.
If I misunderstood you, I am sorry, my English is still far from perfect and I sometimes unsure of certain things.
A hand full of British drivers going to Canada is hardly the same as tens of thousands of Polish, Romanian or Bulgarian drivers moving en-mass to a country with already high unemployment and enough drivers as it is. In order for myself and the rest of us on here who are now in Canada to actually get here we had to jump through all sorts of hoops to get a work permit and then permanent residence and the companies we worked for had to provide evidence that we were not taking the job of a local. Not hard to do really when most companies in this area that have 50 trucks have at least 8-12 of them standing empty at any one time with no one to drive them. Not the same case in England by the look of things on here with many of you complaining about a complete lack of jobs and when there are jobs, they pay very low wages.
Canada or Australia would never simply open their doors and give a whole country the right to reside there over night, they make each and every immigrant demonstrate his eligability to do the job, only after the company who wants to employ him has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that they couldn’t find a Canadian to do the job. Hundreds of thousands of British people are out of work, goodness knows how many truck drivers currently are, so what happens next? We open the borders obviously because its the same thing as maybe 500 or 1000 Britishd rivers moving to Canada over the past 5 years, well no its not, thats a drop in the ocean compared to what we saw post 2004 when Poland joined the EU and there is no reason to believe the same wont happen again with Romania and Bulgaria as they live in much worse poverty than the Poles and they have a massively larger Roma population who is desperate to leave their shanty camps at the first opertunity. Infact while driving down the interstate just this week there was a report on the BBC World Service about roma gypsies in the UK and how they’re already crying foul of discrimination. What suprised me most of all is that a town such as Rotherham already has 3000 of them according to their report! There wont be a single town in all of Canada with 3000 British people in outside of perhaps Toronto with its several million, let alone a town the size of Rotherham.
Carryfast:
That’s what I’ve been saying and what orys seems to so conveniently be missing.The difference in the case of uk is that we have a safety net which covers those who aren’t eligible for contributions based jobseekers allowance
I don’t mention it, because I only mention the things that exist. And the truth is that if you are Polish and if you haven’t been working here for 24 months, you are not entitled to ANY of jobseekers, neither the contribution based or the other one. You are also not entitled to incapacity benefit, even if you worked here for 23 months and then some driver crashes into your car, making you unable to work for weeks due to injuries you got as a result of this accident - I learned it the hard way. You are not even entitled to crisis loan, which is fully repayable after you are back on track. Lucky me, I had at least medical care provided.
Orys please state exactly where the conditions for income support say that EU nationals aren’t eligible to claim it unless they’ve been working here for more than 2 years .
Ironically in my own case I’m not eligible to either the state pension or contributions based jobseekers allowance or income support even if I was looking for a job and I was born here of British decent going back to at least the Anglo Saxon and Celtic ethnic groups and having contributed to the National Insurance and taxation system here for over 20 years.
When I came here in 2007 with my fresh driving license, my experience included about 120 km driven in ex-military STAR 266 that a guy I knew bought to convert into the camper, and about 5 kms of driving a ancient fire engine.
Yet after I signed with few agencies, I was getting on average three shift offers per week, despite that I was paid exactly the same as my Scottish counterparts. Finally the agencies were trying to tempt me by offering me few shifts to choose from.
In 2008 when I was working for the agency - as I liked this kind of job - I was paid MORE than other drivers, just to make me stay with them, as I constantly had offers of full time jobs.
So I would suspect that if some newbie from Poland with crap English (see my trucknet posts from when I first time came here) and brief knowledge of Glasgow and its surrounding was so sought after the work market, there are two possibilities:
I am a genius of trucking and everyone begged me to work for them, because I was so cool
There was indeed shortage of drivers so anyone who could drive a truck was able to get a job.
I think it would not be hard for trucknet team to work out which one of the above is true
orys:
When I came here in 2007 with my fresh driving license, my experience included about 120 km driven in ex-military STAR 266 that a guy I knew bought to convert into the camper, and about 5 kms of driving a ancient fire engine.
Yet after I signed with few agencies, I was getting on average three shift offers per week, despite that I was paid exactly the same as my Scottish counterparts. Finally the agencies were trying to tempt me by offering me few shifts to choose from.
In 2008 when I was working for the agency - as I liked this kind of job - I was paid MORE than other drivers, just to make me stay with them, as I constantly had offers of full time jobs.
So I would suspect that if some newbie from Poland with crap English (see my trucknet posts from when I first time came here) and brief knowledge of Glasgow and its surrounding was so sought after the work market, there are two possibilities:
I am a genius of trucking and everyone begged me to work for them, because I was so cool
There was indeed shortage of drivers so anyone who could drive a truck was able to get a job.
I think it would not be hard for trucknet team to work out which one of the above is true
Or more like the British employers aren’t going to go to all the trouble of starting up a cheap imported labour scam to keep wages lower than they would otherwise be, and then shoot themselves in the foot by telling all those foreign workers to zb off back home when they’ve got here.
But where’s the answer to that question concerning the so called 2 year rule regarding income support as it applies to EU nationals.
No surprise though that not as many Swiss workers as East European ones seem to want to take ‘advantage’ of the ability to work here if they choose to under the new EU/Swiss regs.Just like there was always more workers from the poorer ‘comonwealth’ countries being allowed to work here than Brits being able to work in the richer ones.
The problem for your argument orys is that some of us have seen it all before.It’s just that the imported cheap labour scam is all about East Europe now instead of the West Indies and Asia.
Carryfast:
Orys please state exactly where the conditions for income support say that EU nationals aren’t eligible to claim it unless they’ve been working here for more than 2 years
Carryfast, I did it for you in the past already, use search engine, I have better things to do than research a facts for you that you will then ignore, as they don’t fit into your vision of the word.
The fact is, that you are not entitled for contribution based JSA, and for income based, you are in theory entitled, but since you need some INCOME history, that person new to the UK don’t have, for obvious reasons, there is no chance you got one.
In my case, when I was injured after the accident, it was calculated that I am entitled to 0GBP of income based JSA, so yes, if that make you happy, that’s true, in theory Poles can get it. It’s just simply impossible to get any money that way it if you are new to the country. I did not get it when I really needed it and I never heard that anyone Polish or Czech under 24 months in UK got one. And I do have loads of Polish and Czech friends, and I read Polish forums etc.
Hutpik: don’t be silly. If there were indeed loads of experienced British truck drivers looking for the job, as some here claim it was the case, there would be no chance that I won the case accusing them for discrimination for that they did not employed inexperienced me And it would be enough for them to offer me one shift per day to keep them safe, don’t you think?
.Don’t see anything there which says that immigrants from an EU country intending to live and work here on a permanent basis aren’t eligible for income support based benefits before working here for at least 2 years.The way I read it they’re entitled to the same benfits as anyone else here subject to the usual conditions.
