Or think might catch on?
E-Go for pottering around locally…
I reckon the E-Go and Microlino type vehicles could have a future. Not about to set the world on fire, but very sensible, and with a scheme similar to that for bikes, pick-up and drop off, they could be good shared city transport.
The open Morgan and similar vehicles look fun for summer holiday transport, but I won`t be parting with any cash myself for one in the near future.
None of them. For me.
There’s a gap for myself as a buyer. 90 percent of EVs are ECO, save the planet jobs with skinny wheels. It’s all about eco this and eco that, connectivity, WiFi yadda yadda. That’s as dull as dishwater. For those who don’t care about cars or hipsters that’s perfect.
You have exotic electric prototypes that journalists have a go in. Nothing for the gearhead. They’ll still missing an involved sporty car that offers the same emotional returns that an IC car can. The sound, vibration, manual gear change. It’s so ■■■■ visceral it’s unreal. It’s not about just going fast. Sitting on a high speed train you’re going fast, but it’s dull.
EVs still have the same spotty nerd selling points that those disgusting Prius’ used to have. Nothing to empty my wallet yet.
Freight Dog:
None of them. For me.There’s a gap for myself as a buyer. 90 percent of EVs are ECO, save the planet jobs with skinny wheels. It’s all about eco this and eco that, connectivity, WiFi yadda yadda. That’s as dull as dishwater. For those who don’t care about cars or hipsters that’s perfect.
You have exotic electric prototypes that journalists have a go in. Nothing for the gearhead. They’ll still missing an involved sporty car that offers the same emotional returns that an IC car can. The sound, vibration, manual gear change. It’s so ■■■■ visceral it’s unreal. It’s not about just going fast. Sitting on a high speed train you’re going fast, but it’s dull.
EVs still have the same spotty nerd selling points that those disgusting Prius’ used to have. Nothing to empty my wallet yet.
I would agree although I can see the logic of city EV’s, none of them really excite me, it will take people like this guy to make electric cars interesting, I doubt you’d find driving it as dull as a train ride. 
muckles:
Freight Dog:
None of them. For me.There’s a gap for myself as a buyer. 90 percent of EVs are ECO, save the planet jobs with skinny wheels. It’s all about eco this and eco that, connectivity, WiFi yadda yadda. That’s as dull as dishwater. For those who don’t care about cars or hipsters that’s perfect.
You have exotic electric prototypes that journalists have a go in. Nothing for the gearhead. They’ll still missing an involved sporty car that offers the same emotional returns that an IC car can. The sound, vibration, manual gear change. It’s so ■■■■ visceral it’s unreal. It’s not about just going fast. Sitting on a high speed train you’re going fast, but it’s dull.
EVs still have the same spotty nerd selling points that those disgusting Prius’ used to have. Nothing to empty my wallet yet.
I would agree although I can see the logic of city EV’s, none of them really excite me, it will take people like this guy to make electric cars interesting, I doubt you’d find driving it as dull as a train ride.
Take something that is a detuned racing car defined for the road, not just say a boggo BMW. It’s not the speed or torque, it’s the whole experience.
I really got what all these gear heads were on about all that time. The difference is unreal. It’s all about the emotional connection, you get the transmission whine as you go up through the gears, same as in a proper race car. When you come down through the box on a long straight using H&T with rev matching, then apex out it’s just incredible. It’s so different to something “normal”. When you sit it rumbles and vibrates. Get out and there’s the smell of the engine and exhaust cooking the debris and crisp packets it’s sucked up coming out the side intake vents. Hard to explain.
If they can come up with something that connects with me I’ll have a look. But it’ll take some persuading
And all sound like milk floats or fair ground dodgems. I even saw on one video a bloke said an EV supercar sounded like a tie fighter. It didn’t, it sounded like a fast milk float
Freight Dog:
muckles:
I would agree although I can see the logic of city EV’s, none of them really excite me, it will take people like this guy to make electric cars interesting, I doubt you’d find driving it as dull as a train ride.Take something that is a detuned racing car defined for the road, not just say a boggo BMW. It’s not the speed or torque, it’s the whole experience.
I really got what all these gear heads were on about all that time. The difference is unreal. It’s all about the emotional connection, you get the transmission whine as you go up through the gears, same as in a proper race car. When you come down through the box on a long straight using H&T with rev matching, then apex out it’s just incredible. It’s so different to something “normal”. When you sit it rumbles and vibrates. Get out and there’s the smell of the engine and exhaust cooking the debris and crisp packets it’s sucked up coming out the side intake vents. Hard to explain.
If they can come up with something that connects with me I’ll have a look. But it’ll take some persuading
And all sound like milk floats or fair ground dodgems. I even saw on one video a bloke said an EV supercar sounded like a tie fighter. It didn’t, it sounded like a fast milk float
I understand what you are saying, I get the same experience at work, the crescendo of noise as the GP2 grid waited for the lights to go out or rushing to get to the grid with cars coming past you in the pit lane or the adrenalin rush of pit stops, working at Le Mans having to be on top of your game with getting tyres ready for 24 hours, with the constant noise of cars in the background.
For me the noise, heat and smells are all deeply ingrained in those experiences, the highs and lows, but if those senses linked to the experiences, so will the experience of driving a high performance EV on the limit, catching it as it breaks away, the rush of acceleration, braking or cornering on the limit and just generally being on the edge or the rush of winning a race, they’ll have their own noises and smells associated with it and rushes of adrenalin that keeps you (or has kept me) coming back for more.
Freight Dog:
muckles:
Freight Dog:
None of them. For me.There’s a gap for myself as a buyer. 90 percent of EVs are ECO, save the planet jobs with skinny wheels. It’s all about eco this and eco that, connectivity, WiFi yadda yadda. That’s as dull as dishwater. For those who don’t care about cars or hipsters that’s perfect.
You have exotic electric prototypes that journalists have a go in. Nothing for the gearhead. They’ll still missing an involved sporty car that offers the same emotional returns that an IC car can. The sound, vibration, manual gear change. It’s so ■■■■ visceral it’s unreal. It’s not about just going fast. Sitting on a high speed train you’re going fast, but it’s dull.
EVs still have the same spotty nerd selling points that those disgusting Prius’ used to have. Nothing to empty my wallet yet.
I would agree although I can see the logic of city EV’s, none of them really excite me, it will take people like this guy to make electric cars interesting, I doubt you’d find driving it as dull as a train ride.
Take something that is a detuned racing car defined for the road, not just say a boggo BMW. It’s not the speed or torque, it’s the whole experience.
I really got what all these gear heads were on about all that time. The difference is unreal. It’s all about the emotional connection, you get the transmission whine as you go up through the gears, same as in a proper race car. When you come down through the box on a long straight using H&T with rev matching, then apex out it’s just incredible. It’s so different to something “normal”. When you sit it rumbles and vibrates. Get out and there’s the smell of the engine and exhaust cooking the debris and crisp packets it’s sucked up coming out the side intake vents. Hard to explain.
If they can come up with something that connects with me I’ll have a look. But it’ll take some persuading
And all sound like milk floats or fair ground dodgems. I even saw on one video a bloke said an EV supercar sounded like a tie fighter. It didn’t, it sounded like a fast milk float
Ill bet you know who Ernie was, but guess the guy talking about TIE Fighters probably doesnt?
Like you I get a buzz when I hear a V8 rumble. I get what youre saying about the experience of sound and vibration and everything. I get that too. But there is clearly a generation coming along who have no adverse associations such as milk-floats, and will associate electric whines and the smell of ozone with speed and thrills. And youre missing a trick here I think: the smell of Castrol R…nowt like it…
Franglais:
And you`re missing a trick here I think: the smell of Castrol R…nowt like it…
Mine has to live in a diet of Mobil 1 smells nice . Although Millers oil maybe on the menu come April. No idea what that smells like.
No I get all that about others. Still don’t care. That’s their look out, it’s my money and I’m just talking about what I’d spend it on . As long as I have a choice I’ll stick with IC. If I’m suprised by a decent alternative I’d look into it. But doubt I’d switch unless no choice.
muckles:
, they’ll have their own noises and smells associated with it and rushes of adrenalin that keeps you (or has kept me) coming back for more.
That’s on the money, I had a chat about this on a forum. It seems the consensus that is what’s missing. Synthetic sounds don’t cut it. What’s craved is a system that by it’s design assaults the senses more than EVs do. This is completely baffling to the Silicon Valley centric design base of EVs who try and design comfort, low noise, low vibration “safe space” cars.
Think “back to the future” time machine without the time bit
Freight Dog:
muckles:
, they’ll have their own noises and smells associated with it and rushes of adrenalin that keeps you (or has kept me) coming back for more.That’s on the money, I had a chat about this on a forum. It seems the consensus that is what’s missing. Synthetic sounds don’t cut it. What’s craved is a system that by it’s design assaults the senses more than EVs do. This is completely baffling to the Silicon Valley centric design base of EVs who try and design comfort, low noise, low vibration “safe space” cars.
Think “back to the future” time machine without the time bit
Yes agreed the Silicon valley cars are designed for a different market, maybe techy geeks brought up on video games don’t understand the buzz of real sports driving, however when the sportscar/motorsport brigade get hold of them I think we’ll see a different type of car, as in that Lotus, built in a shed basically, I’ve also seen a British one based on a Lotus, the project was to break some sort of speed record.
But maybe for our generation brought up on petrol engines, it will be difficult to fall in love with electric cars, that generational thing is probably why historic racing is so popular and while I like the Historic stuff, for all the reasons discussed and the how they used cutting edge engineering of the time to solve problems, I am interested in the Electric cars, I think it’s a whole new technology to be developed and ripe for innovation.
muckles:
Freight Dog:
muckles:
, they’ll have their own noises and smells associated with it and rushes of adrenalin that keeps you (or has kept me) coming back for more.That’s on the money, I had a chat about this on a forum. It seems the consensus that is what’s missing. Synthetic sounds don’t cut it. What’s craved is a system that by it’s design assaults the senses more than EVs do. This is completely baffling to the Silicon Valley centric design base of EVs who try and design comfort, low noise, low vibration “safe space” cars.
Think “back to the future” time machine without the time bit
Yes agreed the Silicon valley cars are designed for a different market, maybe techy geeks brought up on video games don’t understand the buzz of real sports driving, however when the sportscar/motorsport brigade get hold of them I think we’ll see a different type of car, as in that Lotus, built in a shed basically, I’ve also seen a British one based on a Lotus, the project was to break some sort of speed record.
But maybe for our generation brought up on petrol engines, it will be difficult to fall in love with electric cars, that generational thing is probably why historic racing is so popular and while I like the Historic stuff, for all the reasons discussed and the how they used cutting edge engineering of the time to solve problems, I am interested in the Electric cars, I think it’s a whole new technology to be developed and ripe for innovation.
You seem to have a finger on the pulse with this Ev stuff through your work. One thing I’d be really interested in is a move away from using ferrous steel in construction. Do you think the technology will bring composite framing and plastic panels? I’d be really in for that. Galvanising just doesn’t cut it in the UK.
muckles:
, for all the reasons discussed and the how they used cutting edge engineering of the time to solve problems, I am interested in the Electric cars, I think it’s a whole new technology to be developed and ripe for innovation.
I too have always been fascinated by the story of historical engineering feats. For me it was always the aerospace industry. But equally I’ve got books on Donald Campbell on my bookshelf and that old bloke with a stove pipe hat who built the Sgs Great Britain
I can’t marry this of yet with EV. It just doesn’t sit with the same sense of purpose that the furious excitement early motorsport or car development had. It’s a conservative, diversion away from an already engaging level of engineering with environmental or sociological issues as it’s triangulation point. Rather than those furious exciting early days of motorsport and aviation that had a far more self serving raison d’etra. Naturally that makes it more exciting.
I’ve always had a healthy scepticism that a directional change does not necessarily represent good progress, sometimes a back track and re think is needed. The aerospace industry found this time and again. For this reason I find the push for EV is already a forced meal and not in keeping with the same vein of early motoring/aviation technical pioneering. That is another aspect why I’m not yet engaged with it.
I’m with you on the likes of Ferrari and Lotus. I really hope, despite their smaller funds they take this in a different direction with a vastly different approach to the drive train and (if it has to be electric) ev power units. Porsche seem to have lost the plot recently, 911 is about to go hybrid in the near future 
. They’ve already done a decent job of killing off their NA line up. Turbos everywhere.
Freight Dog:
muckles:
Freight Dog:
muckles:
, they’ll have their own noises and smells associated with it and rushes of adrenalin that keeps you (or has kept me) coming back for more.That’s on the money, I had a chat about this on a forum. It seems the consensus that is what’s missing. Synthetic sounds don’t cut it. What’s craved is a system that by it’s design assaults the senses more than EVs do. This is completely baffling to the Silicon Valley centric design base of EVs who try and design comfort, low noise, low vibration “safe space” cars.
Think “back to the future” time machine without the time bit
Yes agreed the Silicon valley cars are designed for a different market, maybe techy geeks brought up on video games don’t understand the buzz of real sports driving, however when the sportscar/motorsport brigade get hold of them I think we’ll see a different type of car, as in that Lotus, built in a shed basically, I’ve also seen a British one based on a Lotus, the project was to break some sort of speed record.
But maybe for our generation brought up on petrol engines, it will be difficult to fall in love with electric cars, that generational thing is probably why historic racing is so popular and while I like the Historic stuff, for all the reasons discussed and the how they used cutting edge engineering of the time to solve problems, I am interested in the Electric cars, I think it’s a whole new technology to be developed and ripe for innovation.You seem to have a finger on the pulse with this Ev stuff through your work. One thing I’d be really interested in is a move away from using ferrous steel in construction. Do you think the technology will bring composite framing and plastic panels? I’d be really in for that. Galvanising just doesn’t cut it in the UK.
Most of the modern sports cars I work with are Carbon fibre shells, but then I don’t generally touch anything worth less then £1m.
Whether the costs of composite materials could eventually be low enough for use in normal road cars I don’t know, I believe Lotus use an aluminium chassis, which is glued not welded and composite bodywork. I suppose it might happen and has advantages of light weight which saves fuel, whether that is liquid or electricity, high strength and developing new production methods, but I doubt manufacturers would care much about corrosion properties as I’m sure they only build a car for a 5 year life.
Although I have a 14 year old car with high mileage that shows no signs of rot, so it would seem some treatments must be able to cope with successive winters, although my last car lost it’s fight against the tin worm after 14 years.
muckles:
Although I have a 14 year old car with high mileage that shows no signs of rot, so it would seem some treatments must be able to cope with successive winters, although my last car lost it’s fight against the tin worm after 14 years.
I’ve always found my runner cars were ok for corrosion (for 10 years anyway) as they sit quite high away from the turbulence level of road salt underneath. Youd be suprised at the corrosion on some quite new lower cars, around wheel arches, seam welds underneath etc. Impact areas. Galv is only sacrificial, once the zinc is done it’s finished, if a stone hits it, that’s it regardless.
I appreciate corrosion resistance is not their concern nor is longevity beyond warranty, rather would the new technology herald a new approach to construction that favoured non ferrous materials. One could hope.
What do you work on these cars? Sounds like you get to play with some awesome toys! 
Freight Dog:
muckles:
, for all the reasons discussed and the how they used cutting edge engineering of the time to solve problems, I am interested in the Electric cars, I think it’s a whole new technology to be developed and ripe for innovation.I too have always been fascinated by the story of historical engineering feats. For me it was always the aerospace industry. But equally I’ve got books on Donald Campbell on my bookshelf and that old bloke with a stove pipe hat who built the Sgs Great Britain
I can’t marry this of yet with EV. It just doesn’t sit with the same sense of purpose that the furious excitement early motorsport or car development had. It’s a conservative, diversion away from an already engaging level of engineering with environmental or sociological issues as it’s triangulation point. Rather than those furious exciting early days of motorsport and aviation that had a far more self serving raison d’etra. Naturally that makes it more exciting.
I’ve always had a healthy scepticism that a directional change does not necessarily represent good progress, sometimes a back track and re think is needed. The aerospace industry found this time and again. For this reason I find the push for EV is already a forced meal and not in keeping with the same vein of early motoring/aviation technical pioneering. That is another aspect why I’m not yet engaged with it.
I’m with you on the likes of Ferrari and Lotus. I really hope, despite their smaller funds they take this in a different direction with a vastly different approach to the drive train and (if it has to be electric) ev power units. Porsche seem to have lost the plot recently, 911 is about to go hybrid in the near future
The mainstream might seem a bit pedestrian, but then early petrol cars for the masses were quite basic, it’s the top end and blokes working in sheds (small start-ups run by enthusiastic geeks) that will produce the really exciting developments and they are out there, I think we’ll see that take off big time when there is a major, no holds barred, electric racing series.
We’ve had 100+ years of mainstream development of ICE’s, so really there is a lot of development to take place on EV’s to improve range, battery weight, etc. Look at the last Piston engines in fighter aircraft, amazing levels of development, and there were teething problems with early jets, especially with pilots used to instant power of a piston engine compared with waiting for a jet to spool up.
The real issue isn’t the drive line, but where personal road transport is going down an automated route, so those who want to drive might not be catered for, but then the big sportscar manufactures are working on Hypercars, which are pure drivers cars, many developed and built in the UK, even if the manufacturer isn’t British.
Not sure what’s wrong with Turbos, been around for years, I’ve got one in my car and the kick when it comes in is great. Hybrid engines aren’t a problem for me, the latest F1 engines are turbo and hybrid, getting close to them and talking to the guys working on them the technology is fascinating, they have an electric motor to spool up the turbo, to reduce lag, they recover energy from the exhaust.
Talking to drivers who driven F1 and LMP1 cars for the first time, they reckon the acceleration from the electric motors is instant and energy recovery from braking feels different to normal brakes. I like the fact that previously wasted energy is being recovered, seems really neat engineering to me.
muckles:
.Not sure what’s wrong with Turbos, been around for years,.
Nothing wrong with turbos on their own. I don’t mind them. It seems a bit of an open door to Porsche enthusiasts in the context of how they’re used.
The way I understand it, and I have to admit I do agree now…
Porsche has always had a pedigree with NA. It also has had history with high performance turbo cars. Again, for reasons hard to explain some favoured NA and some bought the turbo.
The way it was explained to me was you always had choice. Unlike the 930, the turbos that are now being used aren’t for performance, they’re for emmissions. They’re there to make up for the small capacity engines. The latest cayman is a 2 cylinders down and now a 4 cylinder turbo. It sounds like a flipping Subaru. Of course you could merit the technicality of squeezing more juice out of small eco lemons, but that loops straight around to what are making these for? For customers to buy them.
Electric does nothing for me although i can see a market for the little city cars like microline.
Nothing like the kick in the arse a flatsix turbo petrol engine gives. Sadly, the days of the infernal combustion car are numbered. Even Jag now have a 400hp Ev…
Freight Dog:
muckles:
Although I have a 14 year old car with high mileage that shows no signs of rot, so it would seem some treatments must be able to cope with successive winters, although my last car lost it’s fight against the tin worm after 14 years.I’ve always found my runner cars were ok for corrosion (for 10 years anyway) as they sit quite high away from the turbulence level of road salt underneath. Youd be suprised at the corrosion on some quite new lower cars, around wheel arches, seam welds underneath etc. Impact areas. Galv is only sacrificial, once the zinc is done it’s finished, if a stone hits it, that’s it regardless.
I appreciate corrosion resistance is not their concern nor is longevity beyond warranty, rather would the new technology herald a new approach to construction that favoured non ferrous materials. One could hope.
What do you work on these cars? Sounds like you get to play with some awesome toys!
My car is quite low, with wheels that fill the arches, but then I might be lucky in what I got, remembering the state of the cars my mother drove in the 70’s and what I driven in the past, a 10+ year old car that doesn’t need any welding or new panels for the MOT would be nearly unheard of.
I do a mixture of motorsport, where I do tyres and set-up and pack-up and specialist car transport and some event work. Get to work with F1 teams, Aston Martin Vulcans on their track days, McLaren, Ferrari GT racing and some historic stuff, including Le Mans Group C cars, Historic F1’s and GT’s. So I get plenty of time to look at the cars and talk to the mechanics and engineers, most eat, sleep and breath the job, so they’re quite happy to talk about the cars and their development.
Freight Dog:
muckles:
.Not sure what’s wrong with Turbos, been around for years,.
Nothing wrong with turbos on their own. I don’t mind them. It seems a bit of an open door to Porsche enthusiasts in the context of how they’re used.
The way I understand it, and I have to admit I do agree now…
Porsche has always had a pedigree with NA. It also has had history with high performance turbo cars. Again, for reasons hard to explain some favoured NA and some bought the turbo.
The way it was explained to me was you always had choice. Unlike the 930, the turbos that are now being used aren’t for performance, they’re for emmissions. They’re there to make up for the small capacity engines. The latest cayman is a 2 cylinders down and now a 4 cylinder turbo. It sounds like a flipping Subaru. Of course you could merit the technicality of squeezing more juice out of small eco lemons, but that loops straight around to what are making these for? For customers to buy them.
Nothing like the howl of the flat six being booted. The Caymans 4cyl turbo has all but lost its appeal in that respect…