Got stuck in a traffic jam on the M54 today, was on digi tacho and sat stationary for about 25 mins. Digi tacho counted this as other work as I obviously wasn’t moving. Surely as I was in control of a vehicle on a motorway (even though sat still) this should be classed as driving?
I took a break before my 4.5 hours were up as I didn’t have enough time to make my next drop, should I have added the time sat still to my driving? even though the tacho classed it as other work?
Thanks
Mark.
Mark28:
Got stuck in a traffic jam on the M54 today, was on digi tacho and sat stationary for about 25 mins. Digi tacho counted this as other work as I obviously wasn’t moving. Surely as I was in control of a vehicle on a motorway (even though sat still) this should be classed as driving?I took a break before my 4.5 hours were up as I didn’t have enough time to make my next drop, should I have added the time sat still to my driving? even though the tacho classed it as other work?
Thanks
Mark.
If the wheels are not turning then you are not driving, well not as far as the tachograph is concerned anyway 
Driving time is what’s recorded on the tachograph as driving time and nothing else, actually if you never moved for 25 minutes you could have put the tachograph onto “rest” mode and had a break if you wanted to, it’s perfectly legal.
Mark28:
Got stuck in a traffic jam on the M54 today, was on digi tacho and sat stationary for about 25 mins. Digi tacho counted this as other work as I obviously wasn’t moving. Surely as I was in control of a vehicle on a motorway (even though sat still) this should be classed as driving?
No. As far as the regulations go driving is means the duration of driving activity recorded by the recording equipment so if the recording equipment, the digi tacho unit says you weren’t driving then you were not driving.
Mark28:
I took a break before my 4.5 hours were up as I didn’t have enough time to make my next drop, should I have added the time sat still to my driving? even though the tacho classed it as other work?
No, it will for ever more be other work.
Incidentally if you were sat still for those 25 minutes, or even just 15 minutes you could have turned the engine off and relaxed and taken part of a break. A break is simply a period where the driver does no driving, obviously you weren’t, and no other work, sitting there looking at that woman in the Toyota wouldn’t be classed as other work, and is used for recuperation, sitting doing not a lot is recuperation so break it could be.
SNAP!!! Another game Ken?
Great minds think alike eh? Both of us came up with the break thing. 
Now all we have to do is wait for ROG 
to come along and tell us it can’t be a break because he knows a union rep who said so. 
LOL, I was kind of expecting someone to say something like “that can’t be right can it” about the break thing but I guess that won’t happen now 
Coffeeholic:
Now all we have to do is wait for ROG
It’s deffo not POA or rest
ROG:
It’s deffo not POA or rest
That’s for sure.
tachograph:
LOL, I was kind of expecting someone to say something like “that can’t be right can it” about the break thing but I guess that won’t happen now
Oh it could still happen.
i like to say in theory you can not use it as a break, as technically it not one cos your still in control of the vehicle, and therefore it would and only could be classed as other work.
(d) ‘break’ means any period during which a driver may not
carry out any driving or any other work and which is
used exclusively for recuperation;
i know it a fine line but, look at it this way if you were stopped by vosa just after the stop on the motorway, and there new it was an accident, or what ever how could you say you took a break when you no you were not recuperating
i may be wrong but i think it the word exclusively that matters here, and as we are told it all in the wording
parked on a motorway is not a place were you could take a break legally that is
Go on then …I’ll bite…
If it’s on break for less than 15 mins what does that count as then ■■
I know the answer but I had to bite with something
Just the answer I wanted, nothing like a break during the day . Wish I’d known this last night as I would of had the tacho straight on break, suppose there will be another traffic jam sometime soon 
Mark.
Coffeeholic:
tachograph:
LOL, I was kind of expecting someone to say something like “that can’t be right can it” about the break thing but I guess that won’t happen nowOh it could still happen.
Told you Ken, see who has turned up!
delboytwo:
i like to say in theory you can not use it as a break, as technically it not one cos your still in control of the vehicle, and therefore it would and only could be classed as other work.
See this bit Del
Coffeeholic:
Incidentally if you were sat still for those 25 minutes, or even just 15 minutes you could have turned the engine off and relaxed
The bit in red covers the in control bit, not easy to be in control of it with the engine off.
Also being in control of the vehicle would be driving, not other work, and the tacho unit says the driver isn’t driving so…
delboytwo:
(d) ‘break’ means any period during which a driver may not
carry out any driving or any other work and which is
used exclusively for recuperation;
Match the two bits in blue and it’s sorted. I’ve sat in a traffic jam before now with the engine off, seat reclined, and read a book or drank a coffee on more than one occasion for either part of a break or a full 45. What’s not recuperating about that?
delboytwo:
parked on a motorway is not a place were you could take a break legally that is
Actually Del given the right circumstances it is a place where you can legally take a break. Pretty much anywhere is a place for a legal break if you can meet the criteria.
ROG:
Go on then …I’ll bite…
If it’s on break for less than 15 mins what does that count as then ■■
I know the answer but I had to bite with something
Go on, I’ll bite back.
As you well know the answer is break.
Coffeeholic:
Actually Del given the right circumstances it is a place where you can legally take a break. Pretty much anywhere is a place for a legal break if you can meet the criteria.
please explain cos if that’s right, why have Article 12
there be no need for it as you could pull up on the hard shoulder, and take your break
and before you say I new what you were going to post when you wrote it great minds think alike or should I say I’m getting to know you
delboytwo:
you could pull up on the hard shoulder, and take your break
Not really Del it’s illegal to park on the hard shoulder except in an emergency, so that’s not really “the right circumstances”
tachograph:
delboytwo:
you could pull up on the hard shoulder, and take your breakNot really Del it’s illegal to park on the hard shoulder except in an emergency, so that’s not really “the right circumstances”
You took the words right out of my mouth.
Although Del broken down on the hard shoulder, in passenger seat having a doze while waiting for the fitter to arrive would be break. I did that a few weeks ago and if you read my Boom Bang-a-Bang diary you will see me say as much in that.
tachograph:
delboytwo:
you could pull up on the hard shoulder, and take your breakNot really Del it’s illegal to park on the hard shoulder except in an emergency, so that’s not really “the right circumstances”
yes I know, but I need a break I’m following all the regs, and need a break to meet with said regs, and if you can take a break while stuck in traffic jam in the middle of a motorway why is that different from me taking a break where I like which could include the hard shoulder
look at the M25 with the roadworks from J16 to J21 lots of trucks parked on the hard shoulder and there not broken down there taking there breaks some of them have even got there curtains closed and before you say that there foreigners I seen UK trucks as well
Coffeeholic:
tachograph:
delboytwo:
you could pull up on the hard shoulder, and take your breakNot really Del it’s illegal to park on the hard shoulder except in an emergency, so that’s not really “the right circumstances”
You took the words right out of my mouth.
Although Del broken down on the hard shoulder, in passenger seat having a doze while waiting for the fitter to arrive would be break. I did that a few weeks ago and if you read my Boom Bang-a-Bang diary you will see me say as much in that.
well that would your take on that, but one of are drivers few years back broke down on the M1 and rang the company up and there told him to put it on break, few minutes later while sitting in the truck vosa pull up to offer assistance and he asked them what should is mode switch be set at and there said in fact its a POA as it known in advance of an approximate time there coming out to fix or see if there can fix it
delboytwo:
Coffeeholic:
tachograph:
delboytwo:
you could pull up on the hard shoulder, and take your breakNot really Del it’s illegal to park on the hard shoulder except in an emergency, so that’s not really “the right circumstances”
You took the words right out of my mouth.
Although Del broken down on the hard shoulder, in passenger seat having a doze while waiting for the fitter to arrive would be break. I did that a few weeks ago and if you read my Boom Bang-a-Bang diary you will see me say as much in that.
well that would your take on that, but one of are drivers few years back broke down on the M1 and rang the company up and there told him to put it on break, few minutes later while sitting in the truck vosa pull up to offer assistance and he asked them what should is mode switch be set at and there said in fact its a POA as it known in advance of an approximate time there coming out to fix or see if there can fix it
Well Del, if VOSA said POA then that confirms you could equally use it as break because the requirements for break are less than POA. If you know likely wait then POA, if you don’t then break, usually when a fitter is coming out all you get told is they will be with you as soon as possible, that means you don’t know the duration so break it is. Sorted, we don’t need to go to multiple pages because you have confirmed Tachograph and I are correct courtesy of VOSA.
In the traffic jam you don’t know how long it will be until you move, My longest is over 4 hours on the A4 in Germany near Duren and it was on break because I was on the bunk asleep. The police came along and said it is going to be a while as a truck has gone over so go to sleep if you want, it was 04:00, and we will come along and wake you before we open the road again, and they did. In fact if I remember correctly I used those 4 hours as part of a split daily rest.The truck had blocked both lanes and there was no hard shoulder so nothing could move.
well here my other spanner in the works explain this then
in the 561/2006 regs there this
(e) ‘other work’ means all activities which are defined as
working time in Article 3(a) of Directive 2002/15/EC
except ‘driving’, including any work for the same or
another employer, within or outside of the transport
sector;
Article 3
Definitions
For the purposes of this Directive:
(a) “working time” shall mean:
- in the case of mobile workers: the time from the beginning to the end of work, during which the mobile worker is at his workstation, at the disposal of the employer and exercising his functions or activities, that is to say:
- the time devoted to all road transport activities. These activities are, in particular, the following:
(i) driving;
(ii) loading and unloading;
(iii) assisting passengers boarding and disembarking from the vehicle;
(iv) cleaning and technical maintenance;
(v) all other work intended to ensure the safety of the vehicle, its cargo and passengers or to fulfil the legal or regulatory obligations directly linked to the specific transport operation under way, including monitoring of loading and unloading, administrative formalities with police, customs, immigration officers etc.,
- the times during which he cannot dispose freely of his time and is required to be at his workstation, ready to take up normal work, with certain tasks associated with being on duty in particular during periods awaiting loading or unloading where their foreseeable duration is not known in advance, that is to say either before departure or just before the actual start of the period in question, or under the general conditions negotiated between the social partners and/or under the terms of the legislation of the Member States;
so its other work as it says your at your workstation and not freely of his time, see bit in read the driver is waiting for the traffic to move and does not know when
as you say to me there is more than one regs we have to abide to
so I say you can not put it on break while sitting it a traffic jam or what ever as happened to warrant a stop of such a time, were a break could be done it would and only could be count as other work
i stand by this and would never put on break while in traffic as for me i know that i not on break
and to put a point if the truck is not moving you not recording driving it goes to other work cos that’s what it is
look at it this way if its possible to take breaks while sitting in jams why is in not in the regs as say something like in article 12 if the unforeseen circumstances as a period of more then 15 minutes it my be possible to fit a break in a break my be taken
but as you know it does not give you that option