If I have…
A manual entry that involves many different mode selections, I always jot it down on a piece of paper first. I make sure it all makes sense (mirroring what I did with my log books all those years ago) and then I input it.
Tachograph training is generally poor here I’ve come to realise, having no experience of them before. Some drivers who’ve been doing the jobs for years don’t know how to do manual entries. It’s down to the responsibility for the driver to get it right.
I’d personally, put in 5 minutes other work when I log in the mornings, but also add 5 minutes other work from when I last took the card out. So on a Monday morning, I’d put my card in. From my last date of work, I’d say I did 5 minutes of other work. This is handing in keys and doing a de brief.
I’d then say that I was on rest between that time and to today’s date.
Finally, I’d say I did 5 minutes other work that morning, that’s 5 minutes to collect keys, pick up work sheet and walk to the truck.
If any of that makes sense.
I always put in 15 minutes other work every morning and 10 minutes end of day. No need for manual entries my day is accounted. Dont see the need to complicate it.
Hi Guys.
Thanks again for all the posts, I did have a further question to ask, we have a large fleet of vehicles so 3.5t 7.5t and 12.5/17.5 class 2, I as yet only can drive the 7.5 with my grandfather rights but am going for my Class 2 next year, if I travel in a class 2 do I have to put my card in slot 2 even though I cannot drive that vehicle? I know if I’m a passenger in the 7.5 I need to put my card in slot 2. What does it record if I am a passenger for the whole day? Do I need to do anything with it upon completing my shift?
robroy:
Zac_A:
I don’t see any need to do a manual entry unless your company insist on it.I certainly wouldn’t bother accounting for five minutes (more likely less) of picking up the keys and walking to the vehicle. If you’re going down that route then you’re probably wanting to include the couple of minutes it takes to drive through the gates and park your car before you pick up the keys.
Do you get paid for every single minute? Or are you (more likely) paid in 15 minute increments?So if you go and do your usual 5 minute ‘‘debrief’’ (another load of ■■■■■■■■ btw
) and it takes 10 to 15 minutes because the guy has gone for a crap for instance, do these guys go back to their trucks and enter the extra time .
As I said…wtf has this job been reduced to.
If you’d ever managed to do manual entries yourself without ballsing it up, you’d know that you do them after the event - in this case you’d record the additional 10 minutes (or 30, or an hour, or several hours - BTDTGTTS*) as part of your card insertion routine at the start of your next shift. It really isn’t rocket science and takes maybe 5 or 10 seconds at the start of each shift.
(*Yes, hours - finished my run, took my keys and paperwork to the office where I was asked to take a van and pick up another driver who had taken his unit into local garage for MoT, drop him at another location to collect a hired unit then drive back to the yard. A POP for anyone who is accustomed to routinely doing manual entries every day, not so for those who “CBA” to do them so don’t even understand how to do it correctly in the first place).
dan9471:
if I travel in a class 2 do I have to put my card in slot 2 even though I cannot drive that vehicle? I know if I’m a passenger in the 7.5 I need to put my card in slot 2. What does it record if I am a passenger for the whole day? Do I need to do anything with it upon completing my shift?
If you’re driving other in-scope vehicles the same day you may want to put your card in slot 2 in order to record your work activities for the time you’re a passenger in the vehicle, remember to press the buttons for other work and breaks or POA.
When the vehicle is moving the tachograph will always record the time as POA on any driver card that’s in slot 2.
If you’re a passenger for the whole day you don’t need to use your driver card, you can write the start and finish times in a diary/notebook, remember to include your name and driver number and obviously the date in the diary/notebook.
As I said in a previous post this record of none in-scope driving days is only so the DVSA can see that you’ve had the correct daily and weekly breaks, so only start and finish times are required.
Thanks for that information Tachograph I really appreciate it 
And again a big thanks to everyone else for the input, I never expected so may to come forward to support me, really appreciate it !!
Merry Christmas to you all 
tachograph:
If you’re a passenger for the whole day you don’t need to use your driver card, you can write the start and finish times in a diary/notebook, remember to include your name and driver number and obviously the date in the diary/notebook.
I’m not sure that is true, although it could be for the OP if he only has a C1 licence which doesn’t cover him to drive the vehicle in which he is being carried. This situation (being carried, as a worker but as a passenger with no intention of driving that day) has cropped up before on this board. I was of the same opinion as you (no need to put my card in if I won’t be driving) but the Regs were pointed out to me that do appear to make it a requirement to do so because I could be required to drive if necessary.
Roymondo:
tachograph:
If you’re a passenger for the whole day you don’t need to use your driver card, you can write the start and finish times in a diary/notebook, remember to include your name and driver number and obviously the date in the diary/notebook.I’m not sure that is true, although it could be for the OP if he only has a C1 licence which doesn’t cover him to drive the vehicle in which he is being carried. This situation (being carried, as a worker but as a passenger with no intention of driving that day) has cropped up before on this board. I was of the same opinion as you (no need to put my card in if I won’t be driving) but the Regs were pointed out to me that do appear to make it a requirement to do so because I could be required to drive if necessary.
I see your point but I suppose it comes down to whether or not there’s any reasonable probability that you could need to drive the vehicle, in the OPs case he cannot drive a cat C vehicle, well not unless his company pays the insurance for a learner driver and the other driver has been qualified to drive the same category of vehicle for 3 or more years anyway.
So I would definitely say that if he’s travelling as a passenger and not driving other in-scope vehicles the same day he does not need to use his driver card.
I don’t have time to check the wording of the regulations right now but I would still say that if there’s no reasonable probability that you will be needed to take over the driving you don’t need to use your driver card if you’re expecting to be out of scope for the entire day.
tachograph:
.I don’t have time to check the wording of the regulations right now but I would still say that if there’s no reasonable probability that you will be needed to take over the driving you don’t need to use your driver card if you’re expecting to be out of scope for the entire day.
That was my stance too (in my case I was in the vehicle for the purpose of monitoring new (to us) drivers and assisting/advising them at delivery points).
However, the fact that I was available to drive if needed meant that I was “a driver” and so was required to record my activities. Also, and this is significant, the situations in which “a driver” is permitted to record his activities other than on the tachograph in the vehicle are set out in the Regs (away from vehicle, defective tachograph, card lost etc) and this isn’t one of them.
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
Conor:
dan9471:
Personally I’m with you guys in saying that if its not required then don’t do it as the risk is I gain infringement’s from my own doing by messing it up.But it is required. It’s a legal requirement under TrA1968. By not doing it you’re deliberately making a false record and that’s treated much more seriously than an infringement - on summary conviction, fine of £5,000; on indictment, two years’ imprisonment and the 6 month limit for infringements doesn’t apply.
How can you make a false record if you don’t make a record in the first place.
To the OP, it is much better when faced with having to make multiple manual entries to keep an accurate diary of all work performed away from the vehicle. A diary is an ‘‘analogue’’ record in the eyes of the law and if presented to DVSA at a roadside check to back up the information on your driver card, they will be happy enough.
If you make a mess of your manual entries though, you will get an infringement. The last job I had I NEVER did a manual entry in over 4 years, and in 3 roadside checks, no mention was made of this.
My current job I have to make manual entries because my company insist on it.
Just keep a diary and crack on.
I know people don’t like this guy in this video, but this is the best guide I have ever seen to manual entries youtube.com/watch?v=_VlkMO- … =Deady2012
shullbit:
How can you make a false record if you don’t make a record in the first place.
What do you do when you insert your card at the start of shift and it says “want to do a manual entry?”
shullbit:
Conor:
dan9471:
Personally I’m with you guys in saying that if its not required then don’t do it as the risk is I gain infringement’s from my own doing by messing it up.But it is required. It’s a legal requirement under TrA1968. By not doing it you’re deliberately making a false record and that’s treated much more seriously than an infringement - on summary conviction, fine of £5,000; on indictment, two years’ imprisonment and the 6 month limit for infringements doesn’t apply.
How can you make a false record if you don’t make a record in the first place.
Wow, How very dare you.? 
Don’t be arguing with the illustrious Conor, he’s an authority on everything transport related.
He must be, he’s at the cutting edge of road transport, with VAST exoerience…(He does a 100 to 150 mile radius trunk every night don’t you know) , but the rest of us are incompetent apparentlly… 
Conor:
Zac_A:
I don’t see any need to do a manual entry unless your company insist on it.
?The law insists on it.
If I’m not getting paid for for these hypothetical five minutes of picking up the keys and walking to the vehicle, and if I can choose to grab a coffee or have a natter with a mate during that time, or even please myself and not put my card in until 15 minutes later because I’m talking and drinking coffee, i.e. I can “freely dispose of my time” it is not work and no one can insist that I do a manual entry.
Zac_A:
Conor:
Zac_A:
I don’t see any need to do a manual entry unless your company insist on it.
?The law insists on it.
If I’m not getting paid for for these hypothetical five minutes of picking up the keys and walking to the vehicle, and if I can choose to grab a coffee or have a natter with a mate during that time, or even please myself and not put my card in until 15 minutes later because I’m talking and drinking coffee, i.e. I can “freely dispose of my time” it is not work and no one can insist that I do a manual entry.
+1
Stanley Mitchell:
Zac_A:
Conor:
Zac_A:
I don’t see any need to do a manual entry unless your company insist on it.
?The law insists on it.
If I’m not getting paid for for these hypothetical five minutes of picking up the keys and walking to the vehicle, and if I can choose to grab a coffee or have a natter with a mate during that time, or even please myself and not put my card in until 15 minutes later because I’m talking and drinking coffee, i.e. I can “freely dispose of my time” it is not work and no one can insist that I do a manual entry.
+1
You two
You want to be considered professional, but you don’t want to work to the required standard. .
More like you.aint got a scooby how to do a manual entry and you are incompetent.
(Sorry couldn’t resist. 
)
Stanley Mitchell:
Zac_A:
Conor:
Zac_A:
I don’t see any need to do a manual entry unless your company insist on it.
?The law insists on it.
If I’m not getting paid for for these hypothetical five minutes of picking up the keys and walking to the vehicle, and if I can choose to grab a coffee or have a natter with a mate during that time, or even please myself and not put my card in until 15 minutes later because I’m talking and drinking coffee, i.e. I can “freely dispose of my time” it is not work and no one can insist that I do a manual entry.
+1
What if you are getting paid for it?
^^ Then you buy the coffee’s.
Like I always do when Maoster & Robroy do that patting the pockets & looking lost [zb]ing routine 
If you’re getting paid, fine, do the ME but make sure you make it at least 15 minutes minimum. But if you’re on ‘job and knock’, don’t rock the boat for the sake of a partial hour.
eagerbeaver:
Conor:
dan9471:
Personally I’m with you guys in saying that if its not required then don’t do it as the risk is I gain infringement’s from my own doing by messing it up.But it is required. It’s a legal requirement under TrA1968. By not doing it you’re deliberately making a false record and that’s treated much more seriously than an infringement - on summary conviction, fine of £5,000; on indictment, two years’ imprisonment and the 6 month limit for infringements doesn’t apply.
Do you go around pulling smokers for discarding ■■■ ends?
I mean let’s face it, it is littering and therefore breaking the law
All jokes aside mate …a tenner says he actually does just that.
‘As he said on the last page…’‘The law insists on it’'.